What is the meaning to life?

[Dr.Dan]

Originally posted by Josh Savoy Perhaps we're missing the point... What keeps you from jumping off a bridge? What keeps you going?

Originally posted by Duesentrieb Two kids.

Try four ... then you wake up early so you have more time to find a brigde!

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by Josh Savoy So I don't understand how you can say life is what you make it. I guess what I'm getting at is that my dad has worked hard all his life and at 42 years old, his kids are leaving him, his wife just divorced him, he just lost his job, and he almost died from his diabetes. I'm at a loss of what to say to get him to keep going or strive for more. My first thought would be that its your right to live and die, but thats not even really advice. I've gone through severe depression/introspection myself and the only reason why I didn't go ahead and commit the deed, was music is beautiful too me. He doesn't have that.

 

 

 

It's easy to feel sorry for yourself.

 

 

 

 

The human mind has an awesome way of fooling itself. It can takle a diamond and turn it into a pile of {censored}. It can take a pile of {censored} and turn it into a diamond.

 

 

YOu're Dad had a tough time....that for sure. Would he have rather died from the diabetes?

 

His kids "are leaving him"? What does THAT mean? They divorced him? Or they are just moving out to fly on their own. The cycle of life.....you grow older and watch your elders pass away, the youngsters grwo up...all before your eyes in a flash. It's part of life.

 

 

His wife divorced him? Does that means he wants to be with someone who doesn't love him, cherish him, and enjoy his presence?

 

 

Lost his job? What job? You know how many people lose their jobs? Do they give up? No...the fight tooth and nail to get back on their feet again.

 

 

 

So, you (he) can either sit their and cry...feel sorry for yourself about how rought things are. Or you can dman well DO something about it.

 

Diabtetes? That's tough. But many peole have it and find a way to deal with it.

 

Kids moving out? Part of life. Enjoy watching them become adults. Hopefully you (he) have trained them well and given them the tools to surivive and succeed. Fi you've doen that you can't ask for anymnore. Hopefully they'll have children and you can enjoy the young ones again. The cycle of life.

 

Spouse ditched you? You that's tough. o you know what the divorce rate is? It happens. Take some time to soul search. What did you do or not do to help/hurt the relationship. Find someone who loves you.

 

Jopb? Hell, this is a no-brainer. You can get help until you get back on your feet. Don't give up. Just do it.

 

 

SO my point is people throughout the ages have had hard times. Don't act like your the only poor bastard there ever was. The more you sit there and cry and feel sorry for yourself the deeper your black hole gets.

 

 

I say this modern day society is too easy. Afforded us too much leisure time and self-pity.

 

If you had to grow or hunt your own food to live, build your own shelter, make your own clothes...there'd be no time to feel sorry for yourself. You either did it or you died. MAny died of course.

 

Get active. Ride a bike, swim. Go to the art museum. Go to the river and watch the wildlife. There's a lot of hurt and pain. EVERYONE has it. But there is so much good to enjoy as well.

 

 

BTW, Josh, there more to life than just your music. Fine that it got you through a bad time, but you need other things to feed your mind and body.

[grumphh]

Originally posted by 17 Tubes It's easy to feel sorry for yourself.

It's easy to tell people that all they have to do is stop feeling sorry for themselves, when you are on the winning side

[potaetoes]

the meaning of life is to get tired enough so you can go back to sleep.

[dicky sofa]

sex

[draelyc]

Originally posted by Josh Savoy Imagine a world where nobody had bladders.

Sing along, now:

"Imagine all the people ... trying not to pee ... hee-hee, hee-hee-hee..."

(Sorry if someone beat me to that--I just read the first couple of posts...)

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by grumphh It's easy to tell people that all they have to do is stop feeling sorry for themselves, when you are on the winning side

What do you mean by that?


I can only GUESS that you mean me.


What makes you think I am on the "winning side". (Whatever that means).


You don't have any shred of an idea what I've been through. You have no idea what my demons and sins are.

I'd be glad to help ANYONE through any tough time, (and I've done it before), but first thing is...stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Then the healing can begin.

[gafyagaton]

To understand the meaning of life, I have to first analyze my life.

1) wake up.
2) bang asian girlfriend then send her off to work making neon signs.
3) Eat, shave and {censored}.
4) head into my home office. Answer email. Forward customers' advertisment orders on to publishers. Bank my commissions.
5) eat
6) welcome asian girlfriend back home from her job.
7) eat last time of day
8) bang asian girlfriend then send her off to sleep dreaming about designing a 50000ft tall neon sign.
9) take a {censored}.
10) thank god I didnt die today. Pray to god and say hello to my dead family members and pets in my prayers.
11) Go back to being agnostic. And fade into sleep dreading waking up and doing the same monotonous thing OVER AGAIN.

Conclusion:

The meaning of life is:
wishing you werent born.

[draelyc]

Originally posted by potaetoes the meaning of life is to get tired enough so you can go back to sleep.

That's actually very Hindu of you!

[Negative K3 fan]

its because our brains feed us endorfines and dopamines to dull our senses, feelings and rationality which make us arogant, pretentious and righteous which leads to this {censored}ty world we live in, but cant get out

[DannyM]

Originally posted by Josh Savoy Why do you wake up every morning?

 

 

Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll.

[joelbah]

Life is awesome.

I just started actually participating in this forum and just want to say that it is encouraging to me to see that there are a lot of decent guys in here who are interested in more than just sex, drugs and rock&roll. It also sucks that so many are struggling with thinking that life is meaningless or only defined by possesions or physical pleasures or success or what not.

I may be going against some of the grain here, but I think there is a purpose to every person's life and that the whole universe and existence in general has to have a purpose. It doesn't make sense that we are just a big ball of atoms that happens to live and think and love.

I don't buy evolution. Not only because it doesn't make sense from a scientific stand point, but because it doesn't make sense from a philosophical stand point. Stuff...ie, matter, space, time, life cannot come from nothing. It doesn't make sense. I think if we all thought about it, we would come to the conclusion that there is some sort of creator out there. Most people will deny it or not let themselves believe it for fear of some accountability to God; however that is exactly where I have found purpose.

For those of you who have had negative experiences with God or Religion or Christians, I am not surprised. Who hasn't? The problem is that a lot of people have it all wrong. I believe the bottom line is love...(just like a lot of you have already said). Here, let's just say it...I am a Christian. I have been for almost 15 years.

I am not trying to convert anyone. All I am saying is that I believe that God is real, and I believe what the Bible says is true, and in that, I find purpose and joy and that can't be taken away from me no matter how terrible my life has been or will be at times. There is more to life than our short lives here on earth. I wish I could actually know you guys outside of this forum, but this is all I have so hopefully something I have said will encourage someone or at least make someone think.

[grumphh]

Originally posted by 17 Tubes What do you mean by that? I can only GUESS that you mean me. What makes you think I am on the "winning side". (Whatever that means). You don't have any shred of an idea what I've been through. You have no idea what my demons and sins are. I'd be glad to help ANYONE through any tough time, (and I've done it before), but first thing is...stop feeling sorry for yourself. Then the healing can begin.

No reason to guess, i quoted you, didn't i?

And no, i have no clue to as who you are - but still, it is too easy just to tell people to stop feeling sorry for themselves.
What you are essentially saying (at least i read it that way, and i admit that that is my personal interpretation) is: "Pull yourself together, 'cause we ain't gonna do it for you", which obviously works for the "winners".

It just doesn't work for everybody - what about those who do not have the ressources to "pull themselves together"? Not everyone is like you, you know?

Oh, right, they die - natural selection and all that

[GnR102385]

Originally posted by Alex Flouros oohh come on...... no Monty Python fans here in 3 pages?????? Alex

+1

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by joelbah Life is awesome. It doesn't make sense that we are just a big ball of atoms that happens to live and think and love.

 

 

Welcome to the the forum Joel.

 

 

I gotta tell you though...

 

 

This comment here kind of gets on my nerves. What makes you qualified to say HOW life/humans started? You don't know.

 

And you, like so many people before you since the dawn of mankind, speak out for God in fear. Some people are so desperately afraid that there's nothing....that we started from nothing and end with nothing, that man invented religion to calm those fears. that YES, we did in fact come from a greater power to serve a greater purpose and move on to something great when we are...{gulp!} dead.

 

 

So because you can't understand how life and humans started that means we HAVE to assume there is a God?

 

 

How does lightening strike? How did the planets form and begin their movement?

 

Well, hell...I don't know let's just say "God did it", so we can move on and plant our harvest and drink our ale and beget our sons and daughters. roit?

 

I have been on my search to understand myself andGod. A very difficult task....but as soon as someon says "well...there *HAS* to be a purpose other than just being here, right?"....I move on. FRor me, we have to say..."THIS" is God. Not: "Well I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE IT COULD BE!".

 

 

 

And...there are experts oput there who can go to other sources to prove the Bible is historically factual. I guess I don't have the intelligence to decipher all that. However, just because I read it in the Bible does make it factual for me. So the Bible says it so what? Did *MY* God write the Bible? And what's with a 1st and 2nd version? The first one was too harsh? God couldn't get the first one right? Jesus, who's said to be the Son Og God, made God change His tune for the 2nd Bible? Jesus was said to suffer on the cross fro my sins...I can point to DAILY human suffering that would make hanging on the cross look like a walk in the park. We recently had a 9 year old girl that was kidnapped from her bed, held hostage for several days, while being raped. She was dumped in a garbage bag and buried alive. They found her seeveral days later. You should see the old {censored} that did it. I wouldnt' want him to touch me let alone do thast to my daughter. Where was her God! Why was she required to suffer so much? I thought Jesus loved the children?

 

 

These are only the beginnings of the things I think about. As you can see, It's more than..."I can't think of anything else so it must be God" Or "He has His reasons". Cop outs. Easy street. I don't buy it. I want to know.

[MCon]

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by grumphh No reason to guess, i quoted you, didn't i? And no, i have no clue to as who you are - but still, it is too easy just to tell people to stop feeling sorry for themselves. What you are essentially saying (at least i read it that way, and i admit that that is my personal interpretation) is: "Pull yourself together, 'cause we ain't gonna do it for you", which obviously works for the "winners". It just doesn't work for everybody - what about those who do not have the ressources to "pull themselves together"? Not everyone is like you, you know? Oh, right, they die - natural selection and all that

I won't assume that just becuase I am in the quote that one has directed their commets specifically to me.



What do you mean "don't have the resources"?


Why don't you go ahead and tell me your story. You seem personally offended.


I beleive that everyone, within some reason, has the ability and the tools to do the things they need to do.


Sometimes it's a hug and understanding and conversation.

Othertimes it's a swift kick in the ass. My Dad called it "Waking you up and getting your attention".


Fine.... mope about. Worry. knead your fists. Cry. Go fetal. DO whatever it is you have to do. DO anything but get out in the world and do what you need to do to make it better.



I *do* believe that in SOME cases, SLIGHT medication is neccessary. But without the drive, desire, motivation....and wake-up call!, the patient will never be cured, just medicated.

[draelyc]

Originally posted by joelbah Life is awesome. I just started actually participating in this forum and just want to say that it is encouraging to me to see that there are a lot of decent guys in here who are interested in more than just sex, drugs and rock&roll. It also sucks that so many are struggling with thinking that life is meaningless or only defined by possesions or physical pleasures or success or what not. I may be going against some of the grain here, but I think there is a purpose to every person's life and that the whole universe and existence in general has to have a purpose. It doesn't make sense that we are just a big ball of atoms that happens to live and think and love. I don't buy evolution. Not only because it doesn't make sense from a scientific stand point, but because it doesn't make sense from a philosophical stand point. Stuff...ie, matter, space, time, life cannot come from nothing. It doesn't make sense. I think if we all thought about it, we would come to the conclusion that there is some sort of creator out there. Most people will deny it or not let themselves believe it for fear of some accountability to God; however that is exactly where I have found purpose. For those of you who have had negative experiences with God or Religion or Christians, I am not surprised. Who hasn't? The problem is that a lot of people have it all wrong. I believe the bottom line is love...(just like a lot of you have already said). Here, let's just say it...I am a Christian. I have been for almost 15 years. I am not trying to convert anyone. All I am saying is that I believe that God is real, and I believe what the Bible says is true, and in that, I find purpose and joy and that can't be taken away from me no matter how terrible my life has been or will be at times. There is more to life than our short lives here on earth. I wish I could actually know you guys outside of this forum, but this is all I have so hopefully something I have said will encourage someone or at least make someone think.

Welcome, joelbah!

Thanks for a polite, well-worded, and extraordinarily positive post! Very cool.

In the interest of providing a broad array of perspectives, I feel obligated as a fellow Christian to recommend that you take a look here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html

and here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

and here:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html


Please understand that I am in no way attempting to challenge your religious beliefs ... I myself am a devout believer in God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Bible.

However, evolution does, in fact, make perfect sense from a scientific standpoint (if one first understands the basic concept of science & the scientific method) and from a philosophical standpoint. Things change over time; we observe that every single day. It makes no sense to suppose that such changes would not "add up" over millions or billions of years.

It is various *religions* that assert that "Stuff...ie, matter, space, time, life" came "from nothing" -- evolution suggests *nothing* of the kind.

As I said, please don't mistake my post for an attack. You're welcome to your beliefs, and you certainly don't have to accept or embrace the concept of evolution. I'm not trying to convert anyone, either! I just felt compelled to chime in A) because I'm a fellow Christian, and B) because some of the things you're saying about evolution simply aren't accurate. It's totally cool if you want to reject the concept; I just think it's good to be clear about exactly what it is that one is choosing to reject.

Again, welcome to the board, and kudos to you for expressing your opinion in such a positive way. We'd all do well to follow your example.

Chris

P.S. Whereabouts in SC are you? I'm in Spartanburg.

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by draelyc Welcome, joelbah! Thanks for a polite, well-worded, and extraordinarily positive post! Very cool. exactly what it is that one is choosing to reject. Again, welcome to the board, and kudos to you for expressing your opinion in such a positive way. We'd all do well to follow your example. Chris P.S. Whereabouts in SC are you? I'm in Spartanburg.

 

 

Hey ya'll....

 

draelyc in da house. Listen up.

 

 

 

I am not as informed or educated as Chris....but I too do not see anything wrong with with evolution being part of God's design.

 

 

Although, when I look at some of my fellow "human beings" I have to wonder if evolution skipped us.

[draelyc]

Originally posted by 17 Tubes Hey ya'll.... draelyc in da house. Listen up. I am not as informed or educated as Chris....but I too do not see anything wrong with with evolution being part of God's design. Although, when I look at some of my fellow "human beings" I have to wonder if evolution skipped us.

Lol! There was a great line in the Sunday funnies a couple weeks ago ... can't remember which strip, but one character asked the other his opinion about "intelligent design" -- the guy says, "I don't know, I see too much evidence of stupid design!"

[Josh Savoy]

Originally posted by 17 Tubes It's easy to feel sorry for yourself. The human mind has an awesome way of fooling itself. It can takle a diamond and turn it into a pile of {censored}. It can take a pile of {censored} and turn it into a diamond. YOu're Dad had a tough time....that for sure. Would he have rather died from the diabetes? His kids "are leaving him"? What does THAT mean? They divorced him? Or they are just moving out to fly on their own. The cycle of life.....you grow older and watch your elders pass away, the youngsters grwo up...all before your eyes in a flash. It's part of life. His wife divorced him? Does that means he wants to be with someone who doesn't love him, cherish him, and enjoy his presence? Lost his job? What job? You know how many people lose their jobs? Do they give up? No...the fight tooth and nail to get back on their feet again. So, you (he) can either sit their and cry...feel sorry for yourself about how rought things are. Or you can dman well DO something about it. Diabtetes? That's tough. But many peole have it and find a way to deal with it. Kids moving out? Part of life. Enjoy watching them become adults. Hopefully you (he) have trained them well and given them the tools to surivive and succeed. Fi you've doen that you can't ask for anymnore. Hopefully they'll have children and you can enjoy the young ones again. The cycle of life. Spouse ditched you? You that's tough. o you know what the divorce rate is? It happens. Take some time to soul search. What did you do or not do to help/hurt the relationship. Find someone who loves you. Jopb? Hell, this is a no-brainer. You can get help until you get back on your feet. Don't give up. Just do it. SO my point is people throughout the ages have had hard times. Don't act like your the only poor bastard there ever was. The more you sit there and cry and feel sorry for yourself the deeper your black hole gets. I say this modern day society is too easy. Afforded us too much leisure time and self-pity. If you had to grow or hunt your own food to live, build your own shelter, make your own clothes...there'd be no time to feel sorry for yourself. You either did it or you died. MAny died of course. Get active. Ride a bike, swim. Go to the art museum. Go to the river and watch the wildlife. There's a lot of hurt and pain. EVERYONE has it. But there is so much good to enjoy as well. BTW, Josh, there more to life than just your music. Fine that it got you through a bad time, but you need other things to feed your mind and body.

 

 

Thank you for the rhetoric. Everyone has their trials in life, stuff that is difficult for them. This is my fathers. You have people or goals to help you out, he does not. Its not a matter of waking up and shrugging it off, its a matter of me understanding why he still plugs along.

 

And yes, there is more to life than music. For you. Not for me. I don't vaue anything else.

 

And for the church guys... sorry, but I've seen first hand what you guys do to people. No god that proclaims he is merciful and just can sit back and let people butcher his words and expect the rest of society to still hold him with an ounce of respect or relevence. He holds us accountable for his own innactivity. Believe or not, I don't care. Realize that a big part of accepting Christianity is when you have hit rock bottom, or huge obstacles in life where you are psychologically weakened enough to swallow the whole load.

[hal9000]

Originally posted by Josh Savoy Thank you for the rhetoric. Everyone has their trials in life, stuff that is difficult for them. This is my fathers. You have people or goals to help you out, he does not. Its not a matter of waking up and shrugging it off, its a matter of me understanding why he still plugs along. And yes, there is more to life than music. For you. Not for me. I don't vaue anything else. And for the church guys... sorry, but I've seen first hand what you guys do to people. No god that proclaims he is merciful and just can sit back and let people butcher his words and expect the rest of society to still hold him with an ounce of respect or relevence. He holds us accountable for his own innactivity. Believe or not, I don't care. Realize that a big part of accepting Christianity is when you have hit rock bottom, or huge obstacles in life where you are psychologically weakened enough to swallow the whole load.

Shouldn't a complete reversal in someone's life be powerful evidence for the saving power of the Bible's message?

[grumphh]

Originally posted by 17 Tubes I beleive that everyone, within some reason, has the ability and the tools to do the things they need to do. ********** But without the drive, desire, motivation....and wake-up call!, the patient will never be cured, just medicated.

 

The first part is where we differ.

 

I agree on the second part, obviously there has to be motivation, but since we differ on the first part i don't think there is any point in continuing this discussion.

 

And FWIW, yes, i felt, although not offended, a sting at reading your thoughts.

[draelyc]

Originally posted by Josh Savoy Thank you for the rhetoric. Everyone has their trials in life, stuff that is difficult for them. This is my fathers. You have people or goals to help you out, he does not. Its not a matter of waking up and shrugging it off, its a matter of me understanding why he still plugs along.

This wasn't addressed to me, but I should have responded to your overall point in the thread sooner.... I wish there were some words of comfort or encouragement that I could offer that would not come out sounding like rejected Hallmark cards. There aren't, so I won't insult you or your father with cliches and platitudes.

Life is hard, and for some people it's a lot harder than others. Y'all have my support and empathy (not worth much over the internet, but maybe it's something), and my help if there's anything more tangible I could do -- let me know.

And yes, there is more to life than music. For you. Not for me. I don't vaue anything else.

Music is one of the best religions out there.

And for the church guys... sorry, but I've seen first hand what you guys do to people. No god that proclaims he is merciful and just can sit back and let people butcher his words and expect the rest of society to still hold him with an ounce of respect or relevence. He holds us accountable for his own innactivity. Believe or not, I don't care. Realize that a big part of accepting Christianity is when you have hit rock bottom, or huge obstacles in life where you are psychologically weakened enough to swallow the whole load.

This was at least indirectly addressed to me, so I'll simply respond by saying this: I have never hit the kind of mental, emotional, or physical rock-bottom that you're talking about here. Ergo, I've never been "weakened" in the way you describe. My spiritual awareness, such as it is, is not based on fear, or dogma, or slavish obedience to what someone else has forced upon me, but rather upon my own direct experience as a conscious being. If being conscious is part of your definition of "weakness," then it is perhaps understandable why you may at times find it a struggle to find a reason to get up in the morning. I intend no offense to you with these words; I merely wish to point out the pointlessness of letting human weakness and human frailty and human cruelty limit and define your own perception of reality.

Chris

[Elric]

Originally posted by hal9000 Shouldn't a complete reversal in someone's life be powerful evidence for the saving power of the Bible's message?

 

 

No, that's just a benefit of fanaticism in any form, it's not specific to the bible. The only 'proof' such evidence provides is that when administered in a certain way the bible's message is indeed one of the things capable of producing such a state change.

 

It also says nothing about the likelihood that the quality or desirableness of said state change will be positive as it is trivial to find many counter examples where such a change was for the worse from one perspective or another.

 

So, at the best case, it proves something that's more or less self evident and at the worst case implies it can be as dangerous or hamrful as it is "good".

 

Note: I AM NOT making a value judgement regarding the belief system itself. That is an entirely different set of discussions. In fact this line of reasoning applies to ANY religous message/system. That was the point that it's effectiveness is not tightly coupled to it's "truth value" in the logical sense.