Members draelyc Posted March 29, 2006 Members Share Posted March 29, 2006 Originally posted by 17 Tubes Good to see you up to par, Chris. But I have one deep burning question I NEED you to answer. I've been DYING to be in the Vlad Clique...ever since I heard the words "diddle" and "her" from Vlad. I have been a loyal follower ever since...but I don't think I am "offcial" yet. Please help me! Lol... Well, I was a-feered to approach The Man for a long time, owing to my rabidly socialist views, but after he & I sort of agreed not to try talking politics anymore, I just asked & got in. Of course, I doubt there were many other people begging to head up the obscure, left-wing branch of the Clique. . . I might not mention the diddling bit right off the bat, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members -=MYK=- Posted March 29, 2006 Members Share Posted March 29, 2006 I like food, food tastes good!I like food, food tastes good!Juicy burgers, greasy friesTurkey legs and raw fish eyesTeenage girls, with ketchup too!Get out of my way, or I'll eat youI like food, food tastes good!I like food, food tastes good!I'm going to turn dining back into eating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sick Michael Posted March 29, 2006 Members Share Posted March 29, 2006 Dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted March 29, 2006 Members Share Posted March 29, 2006 Originally posted by Sick Michael Dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sick Michael Posted March 29, 2006 Members Share Posted March 29, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc Good question, Michael! First, let me repeat that I'm speaking *only* from my personal opinion -- I don't represent any "official" doctrine or institution, etc. I do believe that the death *and resurrection* of Christ means salvation for all humanity -- we are, as of Christ's resurrection, reconciled to God and capable of having a true connection & relationship with Him. I believe that that is true, whether or not a given person acknowledges it or is even aware of it. However, it is my personal belief that Salvation is the beginning, not the end, of the spiritual path to which Jesus calls us in the Gospels. To borrow from Eastern terminology -- Salvation is the beginning, square one on the path; it is a long way from Enlightenment. To answer your question directly: I believe we have the absolute freedom to do and think and say whatever we want, but just because we're Saved doesn't mean there aren't (or even that there shouldn't be) consequences. Christ may have defeated Death (and we could talk for years about the different ways of understanding that sentence--literally, symbolically, metaphysically, allegorically), but that doesn't make it "okay" for us individually to hate, abuse, or violate other human beings. Doing so, living selfishly with scorn or disdain for others, throws contempt on Christ's gift & sacrifice (imo), as does allowing injustice to go unchallenged. Geez, now I'm sounding preachy. I apologize! Didn't mean to go there. Anyway, I think the long journey from Salvation to Enlightenment involves learning more and more about the nature of the consequences our actions have, both in the material world and on a spiritual level. I also think existence, life, morality, spirituality, etc., are all pretty complex things (at least, they are in my personal experience), so I've always had a problem with the "believe X or go to Hell" thing. Whew -- I'll bet that's WAY more than you wanted to hear! Sorry (y'all know I'm bad about that!)~ I hope that answers your question. If I've muddled things up, let me know & I'll try to clarify. P.S. How did you get your keyboard to type the "ash" letter in my screen name? That's awesome! Thanks for the answer! I have a Danish Keyboard. If you say then that it doesnt make it ok for us to throw scorn on others or to mistreat others, or throwing contempt on Christ's sacrifice, then what are the consequences if we do these things and how far do they reach? If we have salvation anyway, then can this salvation be lost or "degraded" in some way, should we misbehave. Or is it always constant and eternal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted March 29, 2006 Members Share Posted March 29, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc P.S. How did you get your keyboard to type the "ash" letter in my screen name? That's awesome! I bet he has "special character" and pastes it in. I'm curious about this "sacrifice" of Jesus. I'm not convinced it IS one. I mean he WAS the Son of God. He KNEW it would happen. He KNEW it would end. But then, he was part "man", too, I guess. But....I read of horrible unspeakable acts...nearly on a daily basis....things that happen to mere mortals that make hanging on a cross look like a picnic. (not that I want to try it!) Here is just one story that breaks my heart: Jessic Lunsford I can't fathom a God that would let this happen....free will be damned. Sure, man is to serve God....but doesn't a God serve Man as well? Are we to receive His protection and love only when He wishes? Is He to allow Jessic's suffering to prove some point? I just can't make any sense of it. Most people try to convince me there is no sense and to forget about it and go spread God's Word. I can't do that. I don't know why. I can't just gloss it over, mindwipe myself, just so I can feel better about my God and the world and things He created. The omniscient, omnipotent, ever loving God, and His "only Son" who loved the children so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sick Michael Posted March 29, 2006 Members Share Posted March 29, 2006 Originally posted by 17 Tubes I bet he has "special character" and pastes it in.I'm curious about this "sacrifice" of Jesus.I'm not convinced it IS one. I mean he WAS the Son of God. He KNEW it would happen. He KNEW it would end. But then, he was part "man", too, I guess.But....I read of horrible unspeakable acts...nearly on a daily basis....things that happen to mere mortals that make hanging on a cross look like a picnic. (not that I want to try it!)Here is just one story that breaks my heart:Jessic Lunsford I can't fathom a God that would let this happen....free will be damned. Sure, man is to serve God....but doesn't a God serve Man as well? Are we to receive His protection and love only when He wishes? Is He to allow Jessic's suffering to prove some point? I just can't make any sense of it. Most people try to convince me there is no sense and to forget about it and go spread God's Word. I can't do that. I don't know why. I can't just gloss it over, mindwipe myself, just so I can feel better about my God and the world and things He created. The omniscient, omnipotent, ever loving God, and His "only Son" who loved the children so much. I think crucifixtion would be horrible!! What I take from the death of Christ is that it wasnt just the measure of pain and humiliation which was significant. ITs the fact that God decided to lower himself to the position of a human (which is quite something - if you go from being the creator of the universe to being the son of a carpenter.) and then went through the humiliation for other people, desite living a perfect life. I think if he had just been a normal man, or like a prophet then it would lose some significance. The fact it was God was crucial. I've seen some pretty harrowing stuff on the Northern Ireland news over the years, but I know its completely down to the evil of men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by Sick Michael Thanks for the answer! You're welcome! Your questions are insightful, as always -- and I appreciate the way you always ask, instead of attacking, the way some other folks have in the past. I have a Danish Keyboard. LOL! No fair! If you say then that it doesnt make it ok for us to throw scorn on others or to mistreat others, or throwing contempt on Christ's sacrifice, then what are the consequences if we do these things and how far do they reach? If we have salvation anyway, then can this salvation be lost or "degraded" in some way, should we misbehave. Or is it always constant and eternal? I believe that Salvation is indeed eternal, that that victory is won, for all time, and all Humanity was lifted a little higher & a little closer to God by it. As for your first question -- what are the consequences and how far do they reach, well ~ whew. After many years of seeking, studying, praying, soul-searching, and *living* (lol), I'm starting to form some ideas about that . . . but any answer I could give would be REALLY long-winded and would probably sound like "voodoo-b.s." to many folks. In brief, I'll mention that I think there are lots of places in the Gospels that hint at or echo the eastern concept of Karma -- that there is an accounting for all our actions, and a balancing of the scales. I also believe in spiritual evolution, as well, but that's an even longer story . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by Sick Michael I think crucifixtion would be horrible!! . I do to. But I tell you what...give me the choice... I'll take 3 days of nailed to the cross over letting my daughter be kidnapped, held hostage, raped, and buried alive in a garbage bag for 3 weeks. I wouldn't let that son of bitch touch ME, let alone and child. "evil that men do" indeed... The "men" that God created in His image? It's a big struggle for me, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sick Michael Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by 17 Tubes I do to. But I tell you what...give me the choice... I'll take 3 days of nailed to the cross over letting my daughter be kidnapped, held hostage, raped, and buried alive in a garbage bag for 3 weeks. I wouldn't let that son of bitch touch ME, let alone and child. "evil that men do" indeed... The "men" that God created in His image? It's a big struggle for me, man. Thats cool, I appreciate that. It is hard. Especially in the world we live in today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sick Michael Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc I believe that Salvation is indeed eternal, that that victory is won, for all time, and all Humanity was lifted a little higher & a little closer to God by it. As for your first question -- what are the consequences and how far do they reach, well ~ whew. After many years of seeking, studying, praying, soul-searching, and *living* (lol), I'm starting to form some ideas about that . . . but any answer I could give would be REALLY long-winded and would probably sound like "voodoo-b.s." to many folks. In brief, I'll mention that I think there are lots of places in the Gospels that hint at or echo the eastern concept of Karma -- that there is an accounting for all our actions, and a balancing of the scales. I also believe in spiritual evolution, as well, but that's an even longer story . . . As we both probably know, theres a lot of assholes in the world and many of those assholes are pretty darn successfull, monetarily at least. Theres also a lot of good people of sound character who choose a more modest lifestyle and are often stricken with hardship. How does this Karma idea influence this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by 17 Tubes I bet he has "special character" and pastes it in. I'm curious about this "sacrifice" of Jesus. I'm not convinced it IS one. I mean he WAS the Son of God. He KNEW it would happen. He KNEW it would end. But then, he was part "man", too, I guess. But....I read of horrible unspeakable acts...nearly on a daily basis....things that happen to mere mortals that make hanging on a cross look like a picnic. (not that I want to try it!) Here is just one story that breaks my heart: Jessic Lunsford I can't fathom a God that would let this happen....free will be damned. Sure, man is to serve God....but doesn't a God serve Man as well? Are we to receive His protection and love only when He wishes? Is He to allow Jessic's suffering to prove some point? I just can't make any sense of it. Most people try to convince me there is no sense and to forget about it and go spread God's Word. I can't do that. I don't know why. I can't just gloss it over, mindwipe myself, just so I can feel better about my God and the world and things He created. The omniscient, omnipotent, ever loving God, and His "only Son" who loved the children so much. Believe it or not, I understand exactly what you're saying here, and all these thoughts & feelings you describe are very valid! It's taken me many, many years even to begin to find some sort of framework that can make any sense of these things at all. I'll say this: it's all about levels of consciousness. I'll use a vastly oversimplified analogy (please don't take it too far, because the analogy won't hold up, and please don't be insulted -- I'm not trying to "talk down" to anyone, just trying to clarify...) When I was in first grade, they told me you cannot subtract a larger number from a smaller number. In second grade, they told me you can, but you have to use negative numbers. What does that have to do with anything? Just this: At the first grade "level of consciousness," there's *no way* subtracting a larger number from a smaller one can make any sense -- no way. But at the next level (once one is "aware" of the existence of negative numbers), it's not only perfectly sensible, but it's impossible to imagine things working any other way. Now, real life human suffering is a far, far cry from mathematical abstraction -- I agree. But maybe if we just take that as a metaphor, you can see what I'm getting at? There is a level of consciousness at which there are perfectly "sensible" answers to the impossible questions you pose -- but the answers might require you to accept the existence of things that you don't accept as "real" right now. Or, I could be completely full of it! Again, please don't take any offense at what I'm saying -- I'm just talking about ideas here, and I mean no disrespect to your point of view. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sick Michael Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc You're welcome! Your questions are insightful, as always -- and I appreciate the way you always ask, instead of attacking, the way some other folks have in the past. Im a prick, you maybe just caught me on a good day!! Theres plenty more wierd characters too, I've got some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by Sick Michael As we both probably know, theres a lot of assholes in the world and many of those assholes are pretty darn successfull, monetarily at least. Werd, sadly. Theres also a lot of good people of sound character who choose a more modest lifestyle and are often stricken with hardship. Ditto, more sadly. How does this Karma idea influence this situation? Again, speaking only from my own, personal opinion, I believe that God "sees" with different "eyes" than we human beings do. I also believe that "time" is meaningless to God -- or at least He understands time in a way that's *very* different to our ordinary experience. All that is to say that I think there's always much more to the overall spiritual picture than is readily apparent in the immediate, physical world. If we see a guy just walk up to someone and start beating the hell out of him, we'd probably say that guy was "wrong" or "bad," etc. But if we later find out the dude he was wailing on had just killed the guy's dog & terrorized the guy's children, we might say, "Well, that's different." --Balance, right? Like the math thing, that analogy is WAY oversimplified and won't hold up to deep scrutiny, but maybe it gets the general concept across? We humans don't usually (if ever) "see" the whole, true picture of things; God does. (Imo, of course!) C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by Sick Michael Originally posted by draelyc You're welcome! Your questions are insightful, as always -- and I appreciate the way you always ask, instead of attacking, the way some other folks have in the past. Im a prick, you maybe just caught me on a good day!! Theres plenty more wierd characters too, I've got some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sick Michael Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by draelyc Lol! Yer cool in my book -- but I'm biased... I've been playing in an Irish-folk-rock cover band for the past half a year! Cool! what songs have you been doing? Originally posted by draelyc I just want to know how the hell you pronounce all those letters! I've been learning the language and I can tell you, those three symbols are the least of one's worries. It borders on nonsense at times...no offence to anyone.... Originally posted by draelyc Anyway, I still like yer sig file! Dont I know its the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Originally posted by Sick Michael Cool! what songs have you been doing? Here's a sample set list -- The Irish Sets: Orange and the Green Boat On The River Eamonn An Chnoic I'll Tell Me Ma Waxie's Dargle Rickett's Hornpipe Muirsheen Durkin Peggy Gordon Ashokon Farewell South Australia All For Me Grog Dirty Old Town Wild Rover Road to Lisdoonvarna Spancil Hill Madame Bonaparte Baiden Fheidhimidh Whiskey In A Jar A Man You Don't Meet Every Day Marie Levaux My gf sings in Gaelic ( ), and we have a wicked harmonica player who takes the leads on the hornpipes. Of course, now that I'm in the group, even the traditional stuff seems to rock a little harder, especially "Whiskey In the Jar" and "Spancil Hill"... We also do classic rock covers like "Keep on Rockin' in the Free World" and "All Along the Watchtower." Nothing technical at all, but man it's fun to get to play some solos again! I've been learning the language and I can tell you, those three symbols are the least of one's worries. It borders on nonsense at times...no offence to anyone.... LOL! Dont I know its the truth! Amen, bruthah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted March 30, 2006 Members Share Posted March 30, 2006 Bump, from page 9.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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