OT: Al-Zarqawi Dead

[the russ]

Originally posted by SkidMarx success will be measured 30-40-50 years from now. What tyou represent is modern America's impatience and penchant for immediate gratification. It will be many, many years before we see any fruit born as a result of this effort to rid the world of Islamic fundamentalist freaks. So don't be so quick to judge.

ME? Excuse me, you're the one calling for immediate, radical action against a temporary, unpopular ruling power in Iran. Better turn that finger around, pal. "Immediate gratification" my foot.

I never said anything about the current state of success or failure in Iraq. I was pointing out that there are HUGE costs paid for this war by both the Americans and the Iraqis, and that the deposition of two men, two INDIVIDUALS, does not justify this war and their deaths are only the most superficial of measures. Two men are dead or out of power. How that affects the daily lives of millions of Iraqis is as of yet uncertain.

[JackBootedThug]

My only regret is that he probably died quickly.

[JackBootedThug]

Iraq=Quagmire. We are never getting out of there.

[PlayboyChris]

Originally posted by JackBootedThug My only regret is that he probably died quickly.

Upon further investigation, I call conspiracy. We blew him up with two 500 lb. bombs and his face is intact? And then we took the time to mat and frame the picture?

He was killed weeks, months or years ago by some other means ....

Originally posted by JackBootedThug Iraq=Quagmire. We are never getting out of there.

You mean like Japan and Germany?

[deadwrong666]

ding, dong the witch is dead, dead ol witch the dead ol witch, ding dong the witch is dead.

[Stratotone]

Originally posted by macmax Shred , it isn't like that at all

Let's see here...

We supported saddam when he was fighting Iran, a country that just before the Iran/Iraq war held hundreds of our citizens hostage for over a year. Lesser of two evils at the time.

We supported Osama when his Taliban/Mojahadeen was fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. Again, lesser of two evils.

So explain how the above is wrong. BTW, macmax, what nationality are you? You come across as american at times (using the 'we' like you're one of us) and then you identify with other countries too. which is it?

Pete

[Doug's Tubes]

Originally posted by Big Hair +1 good riddance imo

It would have been nice for him to experience a little of his own medicine, he didnt know what hit him.

[BerkleeBill]

Originally posted by deadwrong666 ding, dong the witch is dead, dead ol witch the dead ol witch, ding dong the witch is dead.

It's great news and all, but I have to wonder if it means we're getting George Bush on the 6 'O Clock news, in army drag again, holding up a playing card and touting "Mission Accomplished!"

[JackBootedThug]

Originally posted by PlayboyChris Upon further investigation, I call conspiracy. We blew him up with two 500 lb. bombs and his face is intact? And then we took the time to mat and frame the picture? He was killed weeks, months or years ago by some other means .... You mean like Japan and Germany?

He looked pretty good for someone who was killed in a bombing.
Not really. Totally different. That country is in turmoil. They are content to kill each other. There are so many variables involved that it will never be sorted out.

[shredhead666]

Originally posted by macmax Shred , it isn't like that at all

Apparently you need a bit of a history lesson.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html

And during the Cold War w/ Russia, we supported the Taliban because they were in direct conflict w/ Russia as well. Any enemy of our enemy is a friend, you know? Well, after their conflict w/ Russia started slowing they turned their attention on us because we were in support of Israel's expansion along the Gaza strip. Also because we helped Kuwait defend itself against Iraqi invasion... Bin Laden and Al Qaeda viewed that as an attack on Islam because Iraq is a heavily Islamic country.

Like I said, they were useful idiots who we aided at the time because it was convenient for us - we had bigger fish to fry (the Russians). But then they outlived their usefulness after the Cold War, and came back to bite us on the ass because we left them un-checked. So yeah, absolutely everything I said is accurate.

[vlad]

Originally posted by PlayboyChris Upon further investigation, I call conspiracy. We blew him up with two 500 lb. bombs and his face is intact? And then we took the time to mat and frame the picture? He was killed weeks, months or years ago by some other means .... You mean like Japan and Germany?

I kinda wondered that myself... I'd be expecting a moist reddish brown spot on a brick somewhere...

I don't care about the circumstances of his death too much... Maybe he had an unfortunate encounter with some spec ops guy... who knows...

[PlayboyChris]

Originally posted by Aineias By all means, take this comment as offensive and belittling if you must. I for one have little admiration for the veiws you insist upon airing and have come to regard you as little more than a stupid, irrational, thoughtless, egocentric and dangerously-nationalistic bigot. Should you choose to substantiate your views with fact and logic (the two most important tools of any arguement), I may be persuaded to revise this opinion. However, from my perspective, you epitomise the "American" that a lot of the world has come to hate.

oh snap

[shredhead666]

Originally posted by macmax Exxon had not reported a dime in earnings for some years and suddently they reported 5 billion last quarter, and you still think that what u said is true?

Yes absolutely. You fail to understand how oil figures into the world's macroeconomic system. First off, Exxon doesn't get most of their oil from foreign sources. Secondly, the greater demands from China and India are what's fueling oil's high price points right now.

"Moreover, the idea that oil companies sell gasoline only through their branded service stations, and therefore if you don't buy gasoline from Shell-branded gas stations you're not sending money to Shell, is wrong. Oil companies sell their output through a variety of outlets other than their branded stations; as well, by the time crude oil gets from the ground into our gasoline tanks, there's no telling exactly where it came from. (A good deal of the crude oil purchased from Russia, for example, is oil from Iraqi fields sold through Russian middlemen.)"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/saudigas.asp

[shredhead666]

Originally posted by PlayboyChris   I think it's because not even the Arabs are crazy enough to mess with the Spics.

 

Edited March 25 by shredhead666

[shredhead666]

Originally posted by JackBootedThug   Iraq=Quagmire. We are never getting out of there.

The same was said about Germany in the 40's. We still have military bases there. 

Edited March 25 by shredhead666

[tequila_titan]

Originally posted by shredhead666 The same was said about Germany in the 40's. We still have military bases there. But they're in a HELLUVA lot better shape now wouldn't you say?

You're right. The U.S. stayed in Germany for 10 years after WWII and the reason was to defeat the Nazi insurgency.

[shredhead666]

Originally posted by tequila_titan You're right. The U.S. stayed in Germany for 10 years after WWII and the reason was to defeat the Nazi insurgency.

People these days want instant gratification. They want a fairy tale ending where the lead general of the other team surrenders at Appamattox Courthouse and all the bloodshed miraculously ends. In reality, it doesn't happen like that. Idealists will continue to disrupt until we have broken their will to continue. Even then, there will still be pockets of resistance.... the same way there are small sects of "Neo-Nazis" still in Germany. You basically just have to continue to stifle those morons and keep rendering them powerless until future generations have forgotten why they're fighting.

[SkidMarx]

Originally posted by cloudnine Stop turning this into a {censored}ing liberal/conservative debate, Skidmarx. Everyone is happy that Al-Zarqawi is dead and all the news agencies are reporting it just fine.

of course, you think they wouldn't report it? But I'll bet you won't see any democrat Senators or Congressman on the news tonight giving proprs to Bush and our militiary for a job well done. No, they'll be notoriously absent. But they come out of the woodwork when there's bad news. Just wait and see.

[SkidMarx]

Originally posted by cloudnine http://www.cnn.com/ Look Skidmarx, only a passing mention by the liberal media about Al-Zarqawi's death. ...

I wasn't talking about the media, knucklehead, I said liberal democrats in Congress. Pay attention.

[SkidMarx]

Originally posted by Aineias From my experience, this is the problem with those such as Skidmarx. There's nothing wrong with him having an opinion and fiercely defending it. Without regard for the content of the view he is airing, his actions are, doubtlessly, of noble intent. However, his downfall appears to be ignorance of the issues on which he feels he must preach. By all means, take this comment as offensive and belittling if you must. I for one have little admiration for the veiws you insist upon airing and have come to regard you as little more than a stupid, irrational, thoughtless, egocentric and dangerously-nationalistic bigot. Should you choose to substantiate your views with fact and logic (the two most important tools of any arguement), I may be persuaded to revise this opinion. However, from my perspective, you epitomise the "American" that a lot of the world has come to hate. However, back onto the topic of al-Zarqawi: I doubt that this man will have many mourners from outside of his particular fundamentalist circle. Of course his actions are horrific and I'm sure that any trial would find him guilty adn order his execution. I think the criticsm will come from either the point of view that no trial was technically carried out and al-Zaqawi was given no opportunity to face his accusers (though I doubt there would be any escape for him in such a situation) or on the ethical stance against taking any sort of life - which appears to have been adopted by Mr. Berg. I think he's likely to be misunderstood in his expression of regret for al-Zaqawi's death. Now if he's claiming (in what is, I must say, a typicall Cristian gesture) to have forgiven his son's killers, then I would have doubts over the sincerity of his regret. I don't beleive that you can ever forgive such an action - understanding is one thing, understanding the motivations behind the acts of the perpetrator, understanding how one's child may have put themselves into a dangerous situation, fully aware of the risks; but this is not the same thing as forgiveness. However, to say that you regret someone's death is not to say that you approve of their actions or forgive them for the killing of your son. If you disapprove of killing in a blanket fashion (and are stauch and courageous enough to stand by this belief in the face of personal tragedy), then regretting the death as a matter of principle is a perfectly legitimate action. To go really heavily into it, you are left asking questions such as 'What constitutes a "human being" and how far does this definition entitle them to certain rights?' But that is not really the focus of this topic. Hopefully, this action will have a destabilising effect on Al Quaeda and attacks against Iraqui citizens and US troops will slacken off. However, the pessimist in me cannot help but feel that such an organisation would have been prepared for this kind of blow and that attacks will continue or even grow in ferocity. Perhaps the actions that will have a lot more effect will be to find a emthod of combatting the idealology that breeds suicide bombers and religious fanatics. Then, when those such as al-Zaqawi are brought to justice or assasinated, they will not fuel the fires in their matyrdom. EDIT: FOrgot to add - the Skidmarx thing is a shame since msot of you guys on this forum have done a world of good to my view of the American people. Similarly with every single American I've ever met in person. They've all been lovely people - it's just the administration and those you see on Television that promote this "bad" image so much.

if you are talking to me, since when have you been interestd in facts and logic? If you were interested in facts and l;ogic you'd acknowledge that Arab scum have been killing in the name of Allah for decades. Noone cared, so long as it was just Jews and an occassional Marine or two. Then 9/11 happened. Game on. I don't know what pissant country you are from, probably an old world superpower like France that is pissed off that you aren't at the top of the food cghain anymore. But wherever you are from just do me one favor. When you have your own 9/11, don't look to America to bail your stupid ass out. Have a {censored}ty day. Love, Skid.

[cloudnine]

Some of us countries dont crave power.

[SkidMarx]

Originally posted by tequila_titan You're right. The U.S. stayed in Germany for 10 years after WWII and the reason was to defeat the Nazi insurgency.

10 years? Better check again. We haven't left.

[JamesPeters]

Originally posted by Stratotone BTW, macmax, what nationality are you? You come across as american at times (using the 'we' like you're one of us) and then you identify with other countries too. which is it?

Yeah, explain it to Pete so he can tell you "USA--love it or leave it!"

[PlayboyChris]

Originally posted by cloudnine Some of us countries dont crave power.

That's why you're Canada.

[SkidMarx]

Originally posted by cloudnine Some of us countries dont crave power.

now that's funny. In order to crave power you have to demonstrate an ability to take it. Canada couldn't kick Bon Jovi's ass. HA! Just f-in witcha, kid.