Korg Krome

[AnotherScott]

 

Originally Posted by girevik

By "and that kind of stuff" I was referring to stuff other than the control surface - eg. sonic behavior, tonal qualities, etc.

However, I have seen many complaints from organ-heads about drawbars on various models...Control surface is quite important to these people, based on what I've read from them.

 

All these things are important, but not all equally important, and not all important to all the same people.

The fundamental feature anyone serious about organ wants is some way to actually create drawbar settings. Otherwise, all you have is a handful of presets, which doesn't give you nearly the range of sounds an actual organ is capable of. So that's the minimum. Beyond that, there are many other aspects, which some people find more important than other: the ergonomics of the controls, the feel of the action (and whether the keys are "waterfall" shaped), the quality of the leslie simulation, the tone of the percussion settings, the authenticity of the overdrive, the basic character of the tonewheel emulation itself, and how tweakable various aspects of the emulation are. Not everyone finds all of these things equally important, but the ability to designate drawbar registrations is fundamental.

 

Originally Posted by girevik

Really though, any Hammond nut won't be looking at a rompler in the first place - they'd be looking more at the likes of Nord Electro, Hammond XK series, etc.

 

True about "hammond nuts" but you can get drawbar-level manipulation that many organ players find at least minimally acceptable in numerous romplers and other non-organ-specific boards which are still designed to have a drawbar organ emulation mode. These would include the Kronos, anything in the Kurzweil PC3 series, the Roland Jupiters, and the Casio XW-P1, among others. Not the Krome, though.

[JeffLearman]

The main limitation is that (like a lot of ROMpler organs, unfortunately) most samples have percussion. And I got the impression that the percussion is built in to the sample rather than an extra layer, so that it triggers with every note, rather than the more realisitic emulation of a separate layer where the amp envelope retriggers on first (non-legato) note. But either of these is a deal-killer for me, since while percussion is very important, 90% of my playing is without it.

It probably won't have harmonic foldback, so when you do a run up the keyboard, it'll sound wrong at the top if it sounds right at the bottom. If it samples enough keys, though, it could.

Chances of a decent scanner emulation are small. Palm slides without scanner chorus just don't sound right to me, but it's something I could live without for limited purposes.

I assume it does support MIDI CC 11 (expression) as a pre-amplifier volume, so increasing expression increases drive -- and also assuming there's a half-decent Leslie sim. Not authentic maybe, but clearly a rotating speaker, with tube amp distortion that kicks in at higher CC11 levels.

If all you need organ for is a few classic rock tunes where organ is in the background, the Krome might be OK, especially if you can find a preset or two without percussion.

[AnotherScott]

 

Originally Posted by learjeff

The main limitation is that (like a lot of ROMpler organs, unfortunately) most samples have percussion. And I got the impression that the percussion is built in to the sample rather than an extra layer, so that it triggers with every note

 

A number of romplers do allow you to layer a sound with single trigger (legato) behavior. I'm pretty sure you can do this on the M50, so I expect you'll be able to do this on the Krome. Pretty sure it works on Yamaha MOX/Motif, too.

[girevik]

 

Originally Posted by AnotherScott

True about "hammond nuts" but you can get drawbar-level manipulation that many organ players find at least minimally acceptable in numerous romplers and other non-organ-specific boards which are still designed to have a drawbar organ emulation mode. These would include the Kronos, anything in the Kurzweil PC3 series, the Roland Jupiters, and the Casio XW-P1, among others. Not the Krome, though.

 

Therein lies the problem for Mr. Retro, I suppose

[girevik]

 

Originally Posted by AnotherScott

True about "hammond nuts" but you can get drawbar-level manipulation that many organ players find at least minimally acceptable in numerous romplers and other non-organ-specific boards which are still designed to have a drawbar organ emulation mode. These would include the Kronos, anything in the Kurzweil PC3 series, the Roland Jupiters, and the Casio XW-P1, among others. Not the Krome, though.

 

Therein lies the problem for Mr. Retro, I suppose

[AnotherScott]

 

Originally Posted by girevik

Therein lies the problem for Mr. Retro, I suppose

 

Right. He might be able to put together something usable with the method he's talking about, but it's not a functionality naturally built into the board as it is in those others, so he will probably come across some impediments.

[keybdwizrd]

My local Sam Ash store finally got a delivery of Kromes today (61 key only), so I stopped in on my way home from work. I have an MOX6, so I was very interested to see/hear how the Krome stacks up.

Unfortunately, they had the Krome plugged into a keyboard amp situated down at my shins, so I really didn't get a proper audition of the sounds. But, based upon what I did hear, along with some helpful videos, I know that that Krome is full of excellent sounds.

I previously owned a Korg M3 61, and as far as I could tell, the Krome's OS is very, very similar to that of the M3 and M50 series. The touchscreen operates the same. Some of the screens feature color elements, but these are relatively minimal. A row of virtual buttons may be yellow, or knobs blue. From what I saw, the screens are not overwhelmingly colorful.

For an entry-level instrument, the build quality appears to be very good. The metal panels on the front are a nice touch, and overall the instrument has a less "plasticky" feel than the MOX or the M50.

The keyboard action is very "light." It is certainly ideal for playing fast runs, and is the opposite of a weighted keyboard. The action is better than you'll find on most keyboard controllers, but not as nice as a Kronos 61, or other top-line workstations.

All in all, the Krome 61 is a tremendous value at $999. I was afraid that the build quality and keyboard action would be crappy, but they're not. I played around with the sequencer mode, and the five insert effects (vs three on the MOX) are a welcome addition. The sounds, like the OS, seem to be related to the M3/M50, but perhaps more refined. On the downside, the Korg engineers continue to annoy me by refusing to include dedicated octave up/down buttons on a 61-key board.

[Bernard]

Thanks Michael

Great mini review on look and feel...

[Synthaholic]

Kronos X

[MikeyParent]

 

Originally Posted by keybdwizrd

My local Sam Ash store finally got a delivery of Kromes today (61 key only), so I stopped in on my way home from work. I have an MOX6, so I was very interested to see/hear how the Krome stacks up.

Unfortunately, they had the Krome plugged into a keyboard amp situated down at my shins, so I really didn't get a proper audition of the sounds. But, based upon what I did hear, along with some helpful videos, I know that that Krome is full of excellent sounds.

I previously owned a Korg M3 61, and as far as I could tell, the Krome's OS is very, very similar to that of the M3 and M50 series. The touchscreen operates the same. Some of the screens feature color elements, but these are relatively minimal. A row of virtual buttons may be yellow, or knobs blue. From what I saw, the screens are not overwhelmingly colorful.

For an entry-level instrument, the build quality appears to be very good. The metal panels on the front are a nice touch, and overall the instrument has a less "plasticky" feel than the MOX or the M50.

The keyboard action is very "light." It is certainly ideal for playing fast runs, and is the opposite of a weighted keyboard. The action is better than you'll find on most keyboard controllers, but not as nice as a Kronos 61, or other top-line workstations.

All in all, the Krome 61 is a tremendous value at $999. I was afraid that the build quality and keyboard action would be crappy, but they're not. I played around with the sequencer mode, and the five insert effects (vs three on the MOX) are a welcome addition. The sounds, like the OS, seem to be related to the M3/M50, but perhaps more refined. On the downside, the Korg engineers continue to annoy me by refusing to include dedicated octave up/down buttons on a 61-key board.

 

So as someone who has both the MOX6 and the Krome on his (theoretical) shortlist, which one would you give the nod to?

[keybdwizrd]

 

Originally Posted by MikeyParent

So as someone who has both the MOX6 and the Krome on his (theoretical) shortlist, which one would you give the nod to?

 

Well, that is a really really hard questions to answer. If I get a Krome, I'll likely have to use it for a month or two, and then make the decision to either sell it or the MOX.

In favor of the MOX - I have been a big fan of the Motif sounds ever since I bought an original Motif about ten years ago. And, ultimately, these boards are mostly about the sounds. I had a Korg M3 for about a year, and sold it because I preferred the MOX sound library, which is basically the XS library in a lighter, cheaper package. I would need to spend some time with the Krome and explore its sounds before I could decide to ditch it in favor of the MOX.

Like I said before, because I do a lot of sequencing, the Krome scores major points with the five insert effects (vs three on the MOX).

But the MOX scores major points with the simple addition of dedicated octave up/down buttons (the Krome omits this).

The Krome scores big points with its large, color touch screen, which makes the Motif screen look like something from 2002. But the Krome RELIES on use of the touch screen and the big knob for many functions, which isn't necessarily preferable to the controls on the MOX.

IMHO, both operating systems are rather obtuse to use. I do well with the MOX because its OS is merely an updated one of what appeared in the original Motifs more than ten years ago. I think that someone with no experience with either instruments would have a much easier time picking up the Krome OS.

The Krome also gets HUGE points from me for having a VST/AU editor that can run inside any DAW, including Digital Performer (which I use). The one with the MOX only works with Cubase... what the hell is that about?

And then there's the price - the Krome 61 is $200 cheaper than the MOX.... the MOX6 is $1199, which is the price for the 73-key Krome!

So, considering all of the above, I have to put the Krome in first place, UNLESS you absolutely prefer the Motif sound library to that of the Krome. If you prefer the Krome sounds, you else get the large touch screen, more intuitive OS, VST/AU editor, more insert effects, and a cheaper price.

But me... I love the MOX sounds and know my way around it quite well. I would really have to prefer the Krome sounds in order for me to ditch the MOX. Chances are, if I buy a Krome, I will just keep both.

[midinut]

Michael:

Have you considered a Kronos 61 on top and a MOX8 on bottom? Could be the best of both worlds my friend. At least that's the path I'm heading down. Got the Kronos already and was considering a Privia PX3 for a controller/backup until I saw what used MOX8's are going for. Only a few hundred more. It's quite a shame to have those beautiful pianos in the Kronos and not having a weighted action to play them from. I bought my Motif ES6 used based largely on watching your impressive Motif videos. I too have a place in my heart for the Yamaha sound set. My plans are to unload my M3-73 and ES6 and add the MOX8 and a pair of QSC K10's. Should put me pretty close to Nirvana for live AND studio. Plus I do use Cubase, so the MOX DAW integration works for me. Curious about their iPad apps too. Still waiting for Korg to update the Kronos Editor software so I can integrate it as a VST as well. lol

(of course you do have that MOFO of a Virus Polar already too - you lucky bastid)

[Synthaholic]

Why would anyone choose a Krome 61 over a Kurzweil PC361? From everything I've read on this site, the Krome cannot compare. It's certainly not even a contender when it comes to Hammond simulation, and I would have a difficult time believing any of the orchestral sounds are superior. In what categories does the Krome excel over the PC361? What am I missing?

[ChristianRock]

 

Originally Posted by Synthaholic

Why would anyone choose a Krome 61 over a Kurzweil PC361? From everything I've read on this site, the Krome cannot compare. It's certainly not even a contender when it comes to Hammond simulation, and I would have a difficult time believing any of the orchestral sounds are superior. In what categories does the Krome excel over the PC361? What am I missing?

 

PC3K6 at stores for 2,499 dollars (that is the current model - PC361 has been discontinued a while ago)

Krome 61 at stores for 999 dollars

I don't know how you get to compare the two.

[AnotherScott]

Krome over PC361/PC3K6 = piano, EPs, large touchscreen interface, lightweight

PC361/PC3K6 over Krome = probably everything else

[keybdwizrd]

 

Originally Posted by midinut

Michael:

Have you considered a Kronos 61 on top and a MOX8 on bottom? Could be the best of both worlds my friend.

 

Yeah, that sounds enticing, but beyond my budget. I think those two would be about $4,500 plus tax... If I sold my MOX6 ($900), Yamaha CP33 piano ($800) and P08 ($1200), that would still leave me a couple of grand short. And I ain't selling my TI or LP (Tribute Edition), and if I had a spare $2,000 I'd likely replace my five year old iMac. The kids' college tuition put a real dent in my disposable income.

I don't know if it is inflation or currency issues or what, but workstations seem to have become very expensive. I believe I paid maybe $1699 for my Yamaha Motif 6 about ten years ago. Nowadays a Motif XF6 is $2499 and a Kronos 61 is a whopping $2799. With tax, in my county, the Kronos would be $3,001.93. That's a lot of money, and explains why these companies are coming out with cheaper, entry-level versions. I guess the MOX and Krome are for "home hobbyists." I guess that's me.

[Synthaholic]

 

Originally Posted by ChristianRock

PC3K6 at stores for 2,499 dollars (that is the current model - PC361 has been discontinued a while ago)

Krome 61 at stores for 999 dollars

I don't know how you get to compare the two.

 

A simple Googling shows a B-stock for $1199, a refurb for $1299, a Blem for $1399, etc.

I think any of us would consider a fairly dead-on Hammond/Leslie clone for $200-$300 a great deal, so there's your justification for the price difference, right there. Never mind the superior sounds in most categories, VAST, build quality, customer support, superior effects...I've read more than one person comparing the Krome sounds to the M50, which I wasn't impressed with at all.

...I'm just asking!

[Synthaholic]

 

Originally Posted by keybdwizrd

Yeah, that sounds enticing, but beyond my budget. I think those two would be about $4,500 plus tax... If I sold my MOX6 ($900), Yamaha CP33 piano ($800) and P08 ($1200), that would still leave me a couple of grand short. And I ain't selling my TI or LP (Tribute Edition), and if I had a spare $2,000 I'd likely replace my five year old iMac. The kids' college tuition put a real dent in my disposable income.

I don't know if it is inflation or currency issues or what, but workstations seem to have become very expensive. I believe I paid maybe $1699 for my Yamaha Motif 6 about ten years ago. Nowadays a Motif XF6 is $2499 and a Kronos 61 is a whopping $2799. With tax, in my county, the Kronos would be $3,001.93. That's a lot of money, and explains why these companies are coming out with cheaper, entry-level versions. I guess the MOX and Krome are for "home hobbyists." I guess that's me.

 

I just bought a new king-sized bed yesterday and got a note from my chiropractor saying that I needed it for my back (which I do), saving me having to pay sales tax. I wonder if you could get a note from your doctor saying you need the Kronus for your mental health?

I agree about the prices - they are quite ridiculous, IMO. Especially for non-weighted keyboards like the PC361K, Kronus 61, Motif XF6...I really wish there were rack versions for all these synths, cutting the price by eliminating most of the keyboard related performance features / bells and whistles.

[keybdwizrd]

My problem with Kurzweil is this - I am 54 years old and have been a keyboardist all my life. I have lived in several major cities and visited many more. Somehow I have never managed to play or see a Kurzweil, except maybe on stage upon very rare occasion. And I've never known anyone outside of cyberspace who owned one, either. There is one Kurzweil dealer in the Chicago area, but the only keyboard on their site is something called an SP4-7. They have never had a PC-anything in stock when I've called, so I've given up. I do live in Chicago, a reasonably large chunk of civilization. There are a lot of people here.

[Synthaholic]

 

Originally Posted by keybdwizrd

My problem with Kurzweil is this - I am 54 years old and have been a keyboardist all my life. I have lived in several major cities and visited many more. Somehow I have never managed to play or see a Kurzweil, except maybe on stage upon very rare occasion. And I've never known anyone outside of cyberspace who owned one, either. There is one Kurzweil dealer in the Chicago area, but the only keyboard on their site is something called an SP4-7. They have never had a PC-anything in stock when I've called, so I've given up. I do live in Chicago, a reasonably large chunk of civilization. There are a lot of people here.

 

That's kind of shocking. I can relate, though. I ended up driving to Panama City Beach, FL to demo a PC3, more than two hours away. And I live in a much bigger town/city. When I went to see friends in Atlanta, where I once lived, not only couldn't I find one Kurzweil, I couldn't find my old favorite music stores, either. All closed, replaced with inferior stores like Guitar Center.

[cresshead]

re: octave up down shift...have you noticed that in a youtube demo the sustaining notes pitched UP/Down as he switched...before he played new notes...that is not a good thing in my opinion....on my minibrute it sustains the note you've played at it's octave you played it and only switches with new notes in the shifted octave

i hope there is an option to NOT do that!

[AnotherScott]

 

Originally Posted by Synthaholic

A simple Googling shows a B-stock for $1199, a refurb for $1299, a Blem for $1399, etc.

 

For fair price comparisons, you should compare new-to-new, not new to discontinued B/refurb/blem. (Plus the latter could well be gone within days or weeks, and that won't be an option anymore, either.) But I agree, those PC361s are a lot of board for the money. They were, after all, designed to sell for something in the $2k range before they were discontinued. (Though I could still see someone preferring the Krome for, as I said, the pianos, EPs, touch screen interface, or light weight... but yes, the Kurz has many advantages of its own.... organ, synths, numerous acoustic instruments, connectivity, aftertouch, MIDI controller functionality...)

[girevik]

I think a fairer comparison would be Krome vs. Kurzweil SP4 or SP5 (when it hits the market)

[keybdwizrd]

In the Krome vs MOX discussion... The Krome's polyphony is 120, while the MOX is 64. The MOX, however, comes with 1,217 presets, while the Krome "only" comes with 640 (if I am reading the specs correctly).

The Krome's OS looks very much like the M3's with bits of color thrown in. Does anyone know, however, to what extent the Krome's preset library is based upon the M3's, if at all? I tried o briefly compare the names of the presets of each, but this is hard because the M3's patches aren't often grouped by category. I would think that the samples in the Krome have some kind of "heritage" inside Korg.

[Synthaholic]

 

Originally Posted by AnotherScott

For fair price comparisons, you should compare new-to-new, not new to discontinued B/refurb/blem. (Plus the latter could well be gone within days or weeks, and that won't be an option anymore, either.) But I agree, those PC361s are a lot of board for the money. They were, after all, designed to sell for something in the $2k range before they were discontinued. (Though I could still see someone preferring the Krome for, as I said, the pianos, EPs, touch screen interface, or light weight... but yes, the Kurz has many advantages of its own.... organ, synths, numerous acoustic instruments, connectivity, aftertouch, MIDI controller functionality...)

 

I get your point. Do you really think the Krome has superior EPs to the PC3 line? Which type of EP, specifically? I think the Wurlitzers in the PC3 are very good, but conversely, I've never been a fan of Wurlitzer EPs, so I never use those patches. The DX7-type versions are close, and I especially like the Hybrid. And to me, any imperfections in those patches are more than made up for by the gorgeous stereo effects. The weak area, to me, is the absence of heavy tine, Bob James types of Rhodes, and Billy Joel "Just The Way You Are" types. When I call up the Fagen Phaser EP, I want to hear a HEAVY phase shifter attached to either the wide open mod wheel or a slider, and it's just not there. Perhaps it could be there, if I delved into the programming, but I just think it should be there in the factory program. (I have run across this particular quirk in a few programs, like no vibrato attached to the mod wheel or aftertouch on the clarinet programs, etc.)

In what way does the Korg excel, EP-wise?