Audiophiles

[RANDY B.]

I can't tell if you are retarded or being nice, so I am going err on the side of nice. So thank you!

Just trying to give respect for other musicians,,,Anyway the pedalrack info, is correct,, hope you can find a use for it or pass it on to someone who can,,,,, PEACE OUT

[telephant]

Sensitive hearing /= golden ears, FWIW. It's been shown that most of the top producers and engineers have had some degree hearing loss. It's a matter of attention to detail and knowing HOW to listen rather than having perfect ears.

 

 

Well said.

[rawhedrex]

Sensitive hearing /= golden ears, FWIW. It's been shown that most of the top producers and engineers have had some degree hearing loss. It's a matter of attention to detail and knowing HOW to listen rather than having perfect ears.

 

 

I'm not about to hear certain frequencies outside of the spectrum possible for the human ear because i listen out for them - I'm not talking about attention to detail there - I'm talking about objective measurements -

[rawhedrex]

Well said.

 

 

you just shut up and resume cleaning smeg until i stay stop!

[telephant]

you just shut up and resume cleaning smeg until i stay stop!

Well are you saying you think its impossible for people to hear the difference between cables?

[rawhedrex]

Well are you saying you think its impossible for people to hear the difference between cables?

no - what I'm saying is - in dead silence you can be fairly objective about it, anywhere else and you are masturbating furiously -

secondly - it gets to a point where peoples figures dont add up - they claim to not only hear registers beyond our capabilities, but also to be hearing things far beyond the capabilities of the equipment the music was produced on.

In short - a vast majority of the time, i would put money on people not being able to tell cables apart - absolutely - the differences on paper simply dont translate to the real world as far as the human ear is concerned.

[rawhedrex]

no - what I'm saying is - in dead silence you can be fairly objective about it, anywhere else and you are masturbating furiously - secondly - it gets to a point where peoples figures dont add up - they claim to not only hear registers beyond our capabilities, but also to be hearing things far beyond the capabilities of the equipment the music was produced on. In short - a vast majority of the time, i would put money on people not being able to tell cables apart - absolutely - the differences on paper simply dont translate to the real world as far as the human ear is concerned.

 

 

by the way - the sound of your own breathing is louder than some of the noise levels people claim to hear UNDER MUSIC.

[rawhedrex]

I'm just wondering if these idiots regulate the density of the air and the dialtion of their ear canal when they listen to music? what about the sinus in general - and ambient noise from the bloodflow in their heads - do they install bass traps in their {censored}ing ears to deal with that????

This {censored} is just hilarious.

[Weathered]

I'm not about to hear certain frequencies outside of the spectrum possible for the human ear because i listen out for them - I'm not talking about attention to detail there - I'm talking about objective measurements -

 

 

I said nothing about being able to hear frequencies outside of 20-20K. I said that some people who are trusted as knowing what they are hearing can't hear up to 20K, and probably have some dips in other areas of their hearing.

 

Objective measurements don't mean a thing if you don't know what you are listening for. I have no doubt that my GF is ABLE to hear how I hear, but she has not developed the ability to do so. It's a matter of learning how to listen and what to listen for. I'm going to go ahead and say that when it comes to a complete mix, I've got better hearing for frequencies than most people, because I spent time memorizing what certain frequencies sound like. Training is much more important than natural ability to hear.

[Weathered]

by the way - the sound of your own breathing is louder than some of the noise levels people claim to hear UNDER MUSIC.

 

 

That may be true, but if someone hears qualitative differences between cables, do they not have a right to do so? :poke:

[Ron Burgandy]

COOL ,,that PRO REVERB is a workhorse,,,What speakers are in it

Stock Oxfords

[rawhedrex]

I said nothing about being able to hear frequencies outside of 20-20K. I said that some people who are trusted as knowing what they are hearing can't hear up to 20K, and probably have some dips in other areas of their hearing. Objective measurements don't mean a thing if you don't know what you are listening for. I have no doubt that my GF is ABLE to hear how I hear, but she has not developed the ability to do so. It's a matter of learning how to listen and what to listen for. I'm going to go ahead and say that when it comes to a complete mix, I've got better hearing for frequencies than most people, because I spent time memorizing what certain frequencies sound like. Training is much more important than natural ability to hear.

 

 

Thats all well and good - but i know people that lieterally claim exactly what i mentioned, these claim to be the "golden eared" ones - the ones who believe themselves "gifted" so to speak.

 

Anyone can learn what goes into a good mix - and theres only a handful that have the ability to implement such knowledge - but thats entirely different to the sort of nonsense I'm talking about.

[rawhedrex]

That may be true, but if someone hears qualitative differences between cables, do they not have a right to do so? :poke:

 

 

sure - and i have a right to call bull{censored} on the matter. I will also take that a step further and ask they prove their point once they impose the standard on me in any way shape or form - be it judgemental or otherwise.

[JBecker]

Thats all well and good - but i know people that lieterally claim exactly what i mentioned, these claim to be the "golden eared" ones - the ones who believe themselves "gifted" so to speak. Anyone can learn what goes into a good mix - and theres only a handful that have the ability to implement such knowledge - but thats entirely different to the sort of nonsense I'm talking about.

 

The issue is anyone can LEARN to hear what goes into a good mix, but not everyone already can HEAR it. And since you need to learn how to listen to hear a good mix, it's conceivable that some people can do it better than others. Is there anything you can think of that you had to learn to do that someone hasn't learned better than you?

[rawhedrex]

The issue is anyone can LEARN to hear what goes into a good mix, but not everyone already can HEAR it. And since you need to learn how to listen to hear a good mix, it's conceivable that some people can do it better than others. Is there anything you can think of that you had to learn to do that someone hasn't learned better than you?

 

 

I actually did talk about the application of knowledge - you might have missed that.

[Weathered]

Thats all well and good - but i know people that lieterally claim exactly what i mentioned, these claim to be the "golden eared" ones - the ones who believe themselves "gifted" so to speak. Anyone can learn what goes into a good mix - and theres only a handful that have the ability to implement such knowledge - but thats entirely different to the sort of nonsense I'm talking about.

 

 

You mean people like Ken Fischer (from Trainwreck Amps) who could hear the difference between different types of wire in his amps? He's regarded as one of the most gifted amp builders ever to live, and I'm going to take his opinion over most people.

 

Is it so hard to believe that some people, without having sensitive hearing, are able to hear qualitative differences where you may not?

 

Not everyone can listen to a mix and say "well, it's not bad, but there's a 130 hZ ring going on there." It is a matter of training, and while some people may not be able or willing to be trained, some people naturally are able to hear a mix like that.

[JBecker]

I actually did talk about the application of knowledge - you might have missed that.

 

 

Who's tlaking about applying anything? I'm not talking that they can move a slider and hear it, but to recognize that one mix sounds better than another even with slight changes, to recognize quality in the first place. That requires ear training. That can develop people with far superior ears.

[rawhedrex]

You mean people like Ken Fischer (from Trainwreck Amps) who could hear the difference between different types of wire in his amps? He's regarded as one of the most gifted amp builders ever to live, and I'm going to take his opinion over most people. Is it so hard to believe that some people, without having sensitive hearing, are able to hear qualitative differences where you may not? Not everyone can listen to a mix and say "well, it's not bad, but there's a 130 hZ ring going on there." It is a matter of training, and while some people may not be able or willing to be trained, some people naturally are able to hear a mix like that.

 

 

yes - once again - thats all well and good, however thats not what I'm talking about

[JBecker]

yes - once again - thats all well and good, however thats not what I'm talking about

 

 

Are you only referring to some idiot who thinks they hear {censored} over 20k?

 

Listen, even if they EXPLAIN it totally {censored}ing wrong, if they hear a difference they may have a more sensitive ear to SOMETHING that's going on in one versus the other.

[RANDY B.]

Stock Oxfords

NICE

[Weathered]

yes - once again - thats all well and good, however thats not what I'm talking about

 

 

The reference to Ken Fischer was. You can bet that he knew which guitar cables he preferred, and exactly why. There's a story about how he was working with the guys who built Komet amps, and he helped them lay out an amp. He designed it for stranded wire, and they decided to use solid wire through the amp. He warned them over the phone that it was going to sound dead, as he designed it for the increased high end that stranded wire carries through the amp. Sure enough, it sounded less lively than the one that Ken had built with stranded wire.

 

We're talking about 20g stranded copper wire in the context of a guitar amp. I'd bet that your guitar cable or speaker cable has as much effect on the tone as this silly 20g wire in the amp. :poke:

[rawhedrex]

Who's tlaking about applying anything? I'm not talking that they can move a slider and hear it, but to recognize that one mix sounds better than another even with slight changes, to recognize quality in the first place. That requires ear training. That can develop people with far superior ears.

 

 

firstly - the "quality" of a mix is subjective to the extreme - there is so much variation and argument over often very surprising things that you simply cant say something like that - and quite frankly I'm surprised you did - i have seen people bicker endlessly over certain decisions in the studio - to the point I've walked away fatigued and totally bitter - these were matters of taste.

 

Secondly - the application of knowledge is to not simply hear something - but to identify it and if necassary manipulate and or modify it - this to me sorts men from boys in terms of what people claim to hear once we hit wank town - thats why i persoanlly feel it's important.

[rawhedrex]

The reference to Ken Fischer was. You can bet that he knew which guitar cables he preferred, and exactly why. There's a story about how he was working with the guys who built Komet amps, and he helped them lay out an amp. He designed it for stranded wire, and they decided to use solid wire through the amp. He warned them over the phone that it was going to sound dead, as he designed it for the increased high end that stranded wire carries through the amp. Sure enough, it sounded less lively than the one that Ken had built with stranded wire. We're talking about 20g stranded copper wire in the context of a guitar amp. I'd bet that your guitar cable or speaker cable has as much effect on the tone as this silly 20g wire in the amp. :poke:

 

 

and we are - as you have said, talking about a difference that not just he could hear - how is this what i am talking about - when a guy is sitting in a room with 5 other people and only he claims to not like a track because only he noticed the converter tha was used was 5 and not 10 thousand dollars?

 

thats a pretty clear difference.

[rawhedrex]

Are you only referring to some idiot who thinks they hear {censored} over 20k? Listen, even if they EXPLAIN it totally {censored}ing wrong, if they hear a difference they may have a more sensitive ear to SOMETHING that's going on in one versus the other.

 

 

no - the audiophile stupidity I've grown to despise would most certainly research exactly what it is they want to appear to pick up on.

[Ron Burgandy]

If I don't hear enough treble with my el-cheapo GC cables I just turn the treble knob up. I'm now curious what difference nice cables would make, and apparently some people will have them at the Ampfest next month