Follow up to recent EBAY SCAM- Sold guitar, buyer uses extortion

[liko]

You know what? Upon further consideration I'm going to amend this. I don't think it's fair to require a buyer to pay what are supposed to be selling fees, regardless of how it's done. Be it jacking up the price, adding it to shipping, whatever....it's crap. Ebay has selling fees, if you want to use ebay suck it up and pay them.....don't extend an expense that's YOURS to your buyer.

Umm, try telling that to a big-box store when you ask the manager why he's marked up his merchandise to cover overhead and workers' salaries. Even Internet wholesalers don't sell their merchandise at cost. You price your item such that you recoup all costs associated with selling the good, and probably make a profit. That means taking the blue book value of the good, marking up your overhead (in this case the seller's fees on the transaction), and adding shipping/handling as necessary.

You want to own what I have? Then you have to make it worth my while. It's very simple, and it's the way capitalism works; I'm not going to lose money selling you my stuff unless (and this is a big exception) it's worth more to me simply to be rid of it. In the case of an instrument, that's rarely true; unless I need the money from the sale to pay a debt tomorrow, I'll stick it in a closet until someone's willing to agree to my terms.

[Ron Burgandy]

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1772692&highlight=scam

This is the true MsSandman

[MrSandMan]

Just to play a little Devil's Advocate here: what if, instead of immediately calling this guy out for extortion, you had opened the lines of communication with him and asked why he was so set on paying $25 for shipping? I think that if you had at least attempted to start a discourse rather than shutting him down, you might have had another positive transaction to add to the list.

No, I was pretty much done with him after the 3rd of 4th email of him threatning my feedback score if I didn't comply with 'his terms'

Mark another good trader down folks Today is New Amp Day

[Digital Jams]

So it is safe to say that you got shocked pissing on the electric fence so moving forward you will not be using Ebay again right?

[Shiny_Surface]

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1772692&highlight=scam This is the true MsSandman

Holy crap I remember that thread, didn't make the connection at first

[rog951]

Although I have no major issue with the OP, I have noticed that a bit of drama seems to follow him around. He had an issue as a newb on the Duncan forums with a well-respected seller. Then there was the infamous SRV strat thread on the HCEG forum where, frankly, he came off like quite an a-hole. And the XXX. Now he's openly admitted to recouping ebay seller fees by inflating his shipping costs.

There've been enough flags raised to keep me from doing any business with him, and certainly I wouldn't risk entering my personal info into his gear classified site. I'm no ebay fan myself these days, but it's fairly obvious that the OP could potentially have an alterior motive for bashing ebay: the hope of driving users to HIS site. Just seems a little unsavory to me.

[Weathered]

Although I have no major issue with the OP, I have noticed that a bit of drama seems to follow him around. He had an issue as a newb on the Duncan forums with a well-respected seller. Then there was the infamous SRV strat thread on the HCEG forum where, frankly, he came off like quite an a-hole. And the XXX. Now he's openly admitted to recouping ebay seller fees by inflating his shipping costs. There've been enough flags raised to keep me from doing any business with him, and certainly I wouldn't risk entering my personal info into his gear classified site. I'm no ebay fan myself these days, but it's fairly obvious that the OP could potentially have an alterior motive for bashing ebay: the hope of driving users to HIS site. Just seems a little unsavory to me.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Even if he has had a lot of good transactions (which it appears he has), he's also managed to have some not-so-good ones, and has thrown a lot of mud. Turns me off as a potential buyer for sure.

[rockapede]

Umm, try telling that to a big-box store when you ask the manager why he's marked up his merchandise to cover overhead and workers' salaries. Even Internet wholesalers don't sell their merchandise at cost. You price your item such that you recoup all costs associated with selling the good, and probably make a profit. That means taking the blue book value of the good, marking up your overhead (in this case the seller's fees on the transaction), and adding shipping/handling as necessary. You want to own what I have? Then you have to make it worth my while. It's very simple, and it's the way capitalism works; I'm not going to lose money selling you my stuff unless (and this is a big exception) it's worth more to me simply to be rid of it. In the case of an instrument, that's rarely true; unless I need the money from the sale to pay a debt tomorrow, I'll stick it in a closet until someone's willing to agree to my terms.

I know that's the way capitalism works, and maybe my response was a little heavy-handed. I didn't think it through, and I can admit that. However, that doesn't change the fact that bumping SHIPPING costs to pay Ebay fees is dishonest.

[Ron Burgandy]

Although I have no major issue with the OP, I have noticed that a bit of drama seems to follow him around. He had an issue as a newb on the Duncan forums with a well-respected seller. Then there was the infamous SRV strat thread on the HCEG forum where, frankly, he came off like quite an a-hole. And the XXX. Now he's openly admitted to recouping ebay seller fees by inflating his shipping costs. There've been enough flags raised to keep me from doing any business with him, and certainly I wouldn't risk entering my personal info into his gear classified site. I'm no ebay fan myself these days, but it's fairly obvious that the OP could potentially have an alterior motive for bashing ebay: the hope of driving users to HIS site. Just seems a little unsavory to me.

 

 

Wow, I haven't heard about those issues!

 

Any links?

 

Basically he's a POS gear flipper with a knack for blowing up unjustly. He tells VERY one sided stories that usually are pretty far off from the truth.

[rockapede]

Agreed. Even if he has had a lot of good transactions (which it appears he has), he's also managed to have some not-so-good ones, and has thrown a lot of mud. Turns me off as a potential buyer for sure.

 

 

Reminds me of MegaMark somewhat....

[MrSandMan]

Holy crap I remember that thread, didn't make the connection at first

Yeah, that deal was a cluster. I made the mistake not taking photos.. I was so concerned about getting ripped off and wanted to rush the amp back. Thankfully they did come through with the refund, however, I feel that thread was the only reason why I got the refund. He didn't shoot photos of the broken tubes or sheared chassis bolts. You can see the bent knob, but it doesn't look as bad as it really is. He adjusted it so it looked more straight... but if you roll it, it was off to an unpleasant degree. I talked with justcrash over the issue and the fact that I didn't have photos kinda was my error. A mistake that I learned from and I have grown to document everything.

But that is behind me now and I don't see that member on H-C anymore.

[Ron Burgandy]

Yeah, that deal was a cluster. I made the mistake not taking photos.. I was so concerned about getting ripped off and wanted to rush the amp back. Thankfully they did come through with the refund, however, I feel that thread was the only reason why I got the refund. He didn't shoot photos of the broken tubes or sheared chassis bolts. You can see the bent knob, but it doesn't look as bad as it really is. He adjusted it so it looked more straight... but if you roll it, it was off to an unpleasant degree. I talked with justcrash over the issue and the fact that I didn't have photos kinda was my error. A mistake that I learned from and I have grown to document everything. But that is behind me now and I don't see that member on H-C anymore.

Your description =/= photos the kid took of the amp AFTER it survived another round with UPS.

I still think your buyer backed out then you realized you had a XXX on your hands. Or maybe you overpaid for it, and that's your method of "recouping" your costs when you can't complain to eBay/Paypal.

Either way, it seems that screwing over even high school kids is not beneath you as long as you make a buck. So enjoy some extra drama from me everytime you post that you were "scammed".

[DracoAran]

I've deal with Sandman twice already. Good guy.

I was one of the guys that got very angry when he dragged Deadskinslayer's name on the Duncan forum.
I dealt with him afterwards (here), not quite remembering who he was. He was genuinely a great guy to sell to.

I think he's just a little trigger happy when it comes to outing people. He'll get it eventually.

In this instance, I back him 100%. That buyer was a douche, out to get people, and even if Sandman would have obliged, chances are he would have scammed him.

[MrSandMan]

I've deal with Sandman twice already. Good guy. I was one of the guys that got very angry when he dragged Deadskinslayer's name on the Duncan forum. I dealt with him afterwards (here), not quite remembering who he was. He was genuinely a great guy to sell to. I think he's just a little trigger happy when it comes to outing people. He'll get it eventually. In this instance, I back him 100%. That buyer was a douche, out to get people, and even if Sandman would have obliged, chances are he would have scammed him.

 

 

 

Thanks man. I am trigger happy if I smell scam. Maybe that is the downside of me... I just don't want to be taken advantage of. I'm a straight shooter and demand the same in return.

[rog951]

Wow, I haven't heard about those issues! Any links?

 

 

Here's the Duncan one. Scroll down to #152. Too bad the original thread got nuked...that's where most of the good stuff was.

 

Here's the SRV.

[MrSandMan]

Oh yes, now I remember that. He was selling an old bolt on jackson guitar with emgs, hardcase, and strap w/locks. After we agreed to price via email, for some reason I decided to take another look at his repor. So I opened up the thread where the guitar was for sale and I see "EDIT" at the bottom of the thread five minutes after we agreed on a deal. He took out the hardshell, strap and locks and maybe the EMGs too (don't remember). After confronted, he said that I don't get the extras for that price. I was like WTF?? He never disclosed that in our email conversations while making the agreement....

I think anyone would be pissed if this happened to you. Agree to one thing to see that someone tried under-dogs the deal.

And what hurt me in that case was after called out, is on S-D members can delete their own thread.... so he hurried up and deleted his original thread.

That's why rog951 is posting the feedback thread, because the original thread was deleted by the seller. Strange?

[rog951]

That's why rog951 is posting the feedback thread, because the original thread was deleted by the seller. Strange?

 

 

I posted the links cuz someone asked for them. As far as the Virtual Kervorkian thing, I had thought that a moderater deleted that original thread because it got so ugly, not VK...but I admit my memory might be failing me a bit on that one.

 

I think it just kinda illustrates you being a bit of a loose cannon. That thread on the Duncan forum is generally reserved for people who have been scammed and have exhausted all other options. IMO, you were out of line posting it there. You definitely have the hair-trigger on outing people.

 

That said, I don't think you're necessarily a bad guy or a bad seller even. I actually agree with you, up to a point, on the most recent ebay buyer trying to avoid paying your stated flat-rate shipping price. Where I seem to have an issue is with the way you go about expressing your displeasure. Too quick to play the victim card, and too much of a squeaky wheel.

[satannica]

The game ebayers play is simple. Sellers want to sell for the most they can and buyers want to buy for as little as possible! How many times have we seen on here "Look SCORE... NGD... I got this GuitarX, $1000 in mf off of ebay for liek $300... I OWNED!" blah blah.

For me ebay is a last resort and thus I use it rarely and even rarer still for buying.

If I got something to sell first, it goes through my mailing lists, forums and other second hand ads before I resort to ebay - which I haven't had to for about the last 10 times!

[thenakedarab]

I noticed how you didn't tell the eBay CSR that you openly admitted to jacking up shipping price to cover your eBay fees.

 

This has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

 

He listed the selling price and the shipping charge. It is typical to overcharge shipping on e-bay to recoup fees and materials cost. Probably 60% of the {censored} on e-bay has higher shipping charges than if you bought the same item from a regular online retailer. I had to eat materials costs myself when I gauged my shipping charges off of UPS quotes. It was a good bit more when I got to the UPS store than what they said it would be on the phone, even though I gave them exact measurements and shipping weight. They under quote to get your business, and thats a fact.

 

The buyer entered into a contract agreeing to pay the selling price, AND the shipping charges as listed.

 

The buyer than attempted to blackmail him with the threat of negative feedback if he didn't change the terms of a contract the buyer had already entered into fully knowing the terms.

 

Pretty open and shut if you ask me.

 

Also, as to your other comments, you're right the guy can say nothing negative about e-bays policies, BUT e-bay should be proactive in this and prepare a statement for customer service reps as it is a pretty widespread practice. Not doing so is a slap in the face to the people who've made their business possible.

[EdgeOfDarkness]

Pay no attention to Chuck, He is drinking again.

[MrSandMan]

Just on a side note...

here is the happy buyer from Canada who was VERY happy paying $85 shipping to Canada for the axe in question (I relisted it) http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=jcmainline&&ftab=FeedbackAsBuyer&iid=160212779980

Also, please look at the feedback that he left for me... He's delighted and happy to have this axe. We hit off and now he is a member of gear-monkey. We talk a couple times a week.. this should speak volumes.

There are good buyers out there. It's just the few bad seeds that leave a bitter taste in our mouth.

[MetalHed]

I noticed how you didn't tell the eBay CSR that you openly admitted to jacking up shipping price to cover your eBay fees. Go back to your Gear-Retard page, dip{censored}.

Actually, you sir, are the dip{censored}.

If someone thinks that the shipping charge for an item on eBay is exhorbitant, they shouldn't bid on it. The terms are clearly stated in the auction, and if you don't agree with the terms, you move on to another auction that has terms you consider more agreeable. Anyone who bids on an item and then tries to haggle down the price afterwards is clearly about half a smart as a retarded monkey. Anyone who supports such behavior is clearly not any smarter.....

People like YOU are the reason that eBay is going down the crapper. No respect for rules, you think you can make them up as you go along. You should be ashamed of yourself.......

[EdgeOfDarkness]

Actually, you sir, are the dip{censored}. If someone thinks that the shipping charge for an item on eBay is exhorbitant, they shouldn't bid on it. The terms are clearly stated in the auction, and if you don't agree with the terms, you move on to another auction that has terms you consider more agreeable. Anyone who bids on an item and then tries to haggle down the price afterwards is clearly about half a smart as a retarded monkey. Anyone who supports such behavior is clearly not any smarter..... People like YOU are the reason that eBay is going down the crapper. No respect for rules, you think you can make them up as you go along. You should be ashamed of yourself.......

They ruin the economy and the normal people like us have to pay.

[Ron Burgandy]

Actually, you sir, are the dip{censored}. If someone thinks that the shipping charge for an item on eBay is exhorbitant, they shouldn't bid on it. The terms are clearly stated in the auction, and if you don't agree with the terms, you move on to another auction that has terms you consider more agreeable. Anyone who bids on an item and then tries to haggle down the price afterwards is clearly about half a smart as a retarded monkey. Anyone who supports such behavior is clearly not any smarter..... People like YOU are the reason that eBay is going down the crapper. No respect for rules, you think you can make them up as you go along. You should be ashamed of yourself.......

L-O-L tard.

I was referring to how he was belittling a customer service rep (probably in India) that has no bearing on eBay's policies or would be at liberty to refute "message board discussions" or news stories.

To address the issue with shipping charges: In his last thread he stated that he jacks up shipping prices to offset the fees that HE is charged for the exposure eBay provides. No numbers were given in that thread.

I have a perfect transaction record where I go out of my way to make sure things go smoothly.

I'm not saying the buyer was right I'm simply commenting on MsSandMan's selling practices which have come under scrutiny before.

MetalHed = pwnd :poke:

[BlackHive]

Here's what you do to a person like that: Take his money in the form of a postal money order, then email him and say you changed your mind and won't ship it without the higher shipping rate, get the negative feedback about "not being fair" or "charging too much for shipping" or whatever that you were going to get anyway, don't ship guitar, smile about pwning some punk brat.

 

(don't really because i'm sure that violates.. laws)