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ot: it apears that clinton has won the pennsyltucky primary

bluesboy

By bluesboy
in Amps

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fly135 Newbie

fly135

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Obviously.


I don't have the time to sit here and make up for the failure that your education has been, so how about we just touch on two or three things that completely {censored}ed the global political climate.


1. Appeasement of Hitler - Neville Chamberlain's baby...almost led to the complete destruction of Europe as we know it. The defining example of what NOT to do in a time of crisis.


2. Balfour Doctrine - Successfully ensured almost 80 years of continuous and ever increasing violence in the middle east. The defining example of what NOT to do in a geographic area you neither understand or care to understand.


And, to go back a bit further:


3. British imperialism in the far east - Where to start? The defining example of what not to do in the name of 'progress' and 'exploration'



You know, if you have an educated opinion on something, fine. If you don't even have a basic grasp of the history of YOUR OWN COUNTRY, shut the {censored} up about ours. Yeah, its {censored}ed up...we know that, but I can tell you that the last country in the world that should get high-handed with us is the UK.



That's all mitigated by the fact that we don't speak French.:thu:

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bluesboy Newbie

bluesboy

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i heard someone at a confrence use the term "pennsyl-tucky" because they were from northwestern-midwestern area of PA. and guess what's there? NOTHING. i thought it was funny so i use it on occasion.

im from the other side of the state, where there's buildings and such, and the occasional highway. :thu:

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Weathered Newbie

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Why is there an insistance on voting for the Obama/CLinton/McCain?



Why not vote for someone else?


I know I know....too tough a task for the American Public.

 

 

Because if I don't vote against the 30 percenters, we're all {censored}ed.

 

 

Or at least that's what a lot of people are saying now.

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silverfacechamp Newbie

silverfacechamp

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Why is there an insistance on voting for the Obama/CLinton/McCain?



Why not vote for someone else?


I know I know....too tough a task for the American Public.

 

 

Simple mathematics. No one else has a wide enough support to carry the majority, so a third person would just end up screwing up the process.

 

If we judged a three way race based on popular vote (which is what the electoral college is SUPPOSED to be tied to), think of it this way:

 

Person A: 40% of the popular vote

Person B: 35% of the popular vote

Person C: 25% of the popular vote

 

Person A wins, even though 60% of the people didn't want that person elected. Say what you will about two party elections, but any more just ends up muddying the results.

 

In this election, people who are going to vote right are going to vote right. Even middle of the road and left leaning conservatives don't have any real reason to not vote for McCain, so thus McCain pretty much has his core group locked up. On the left side of the line, things are far different. Obama has a the young, newly energized base and Clinton has the older, more moderate dems on her side. Then theres a whole bunch of undecideds that lean dem but may vote republican if the wrong person gets the nomination. A third person in the race wouldn't steal votes from McCain, they would take them from Hillary or Obama, which would then mean even worse chances of a democrat getting elected in November.

 

The problem with this election is that, right now, you've practically got a 50/50 split among dems and undecideds between Hillary and Obama. If Hillary gets the nod, all of the new, fresh, young voters that Obama has mobilized go back to their non-voting ways because they're disenchanted with a democratic process that doesn't seem very democratic, so we lose that fairly large number of popular votes. If Obama gets it, he's going to get railed on about being young, inexperienced, and he has some unexplored skeletons in his closet yet. He gets it, we lose the more conservative liberals, the older people, and a good portion of the middle class that don't believe he can affect enough economic change to do them good. This is dangerous because this is the demographic that readily and consistently votes. Where do those votes go?

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***1776*** Newbie

***1776***

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I think Obama may start to get exposed with his very left voting/track record (his voting record was 1 of the most liberal in the senate!) and his "associates" he hangs out with..


I dont think hes a bad guy at all, in fact i think he is very likeable IMO but between his pastor and church who he went to for 20 yrs, his wifes comments on America, his association with a left wing terrorist/teacher and his comments on Americans "cling to guns/religion" because of bitterness (In VERY LIBERAL San Fran btw) its scaring the non 'liberal moderate democrat" (there are still some left lol) Its GREAT for the Moveon.Org democrat but the moderate or even conservative democrat doesnt like to hear that!


He said he would raise the tax on investments/capital gains (100+ millions Americans are invested in the mkt - retirement plans, etc) from 15% to 28%, not a good deal IMO. He just seems a lil raw around the edges to me


I like the fact that hes a refreshing face and is NOT a Wash D.C. insider, (I really do) but then i see that hes raising 3X more money than any candidate and i think is it the same ole same ole. :confused:



:idea:

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silverfacechamp Newbie

silverfacechamp

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I think Obama may start to get exposed with his very left voting/track record (his voting record was 1 of the most liberal in the senate!) and his "associates" he hangs out with..



I dont think hes a bad guy at all, in fact i think he is very likeable IMO but between his pastor and church who he went to for 20 yrs, his wifes comments on America, his association with a left wing terrorist/teacher and his comments on Americans "cling to guns/religion" because of bitterness (In VERY LIBERAL San Fran btw) its scaring the non 'liberal moderate democrat" (there are still some left lol) Its GREAT for the Moveon.Org democrat but the moderate or even conservative democrat doesnt like to hear that!



He said he would raise the tax on investments/capital gains (100+ millions Americans are invested in the mkt - retirement plans, etc) from 15% to 28%, not a good deal IMO. He just seems a lil raw around the edges to me



I like the fact that hes a refreshing face and is NOT a Wash D.C. insider, (I really do) but then i see that hes raising 3X more money than any candidate and i think is it the same ole same ole.
:confused:



:idea:

 

I agree. To a certain extent I think the media is largely to blame for way over-hyping and misinterpreting some of his 'controversial' statements actions, like the bitter comment and his rather tenuous association with the Weathermen.

 

When I listen to him speak, I hear a lot of RFK in him....I hear a lot of RFK's campaign in '68. But unlike RFK, I don't think he has the connections or the experience to affect the kind of change he thinks he can....whether you want to believe it or not, Washington is an insider's game, and a rich white guy from the northeast with unprecedented political connections (RFK) is going to get a hell of a lot more accomplished than a little known junior senator from the Midwest.

 

That said, I like Obama. I think he's a far better choice than Clinton or McCain, and I like the fact that his mother was an anthropologist and he was raised in an environment where all cultures and people are equal. Will he get elected in November. I guess only time will tell, but the fact that he isn't able to carry the big electoral states is somewhat unsettling.

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17 Tubes Newbie

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Don't you think this voting AGAINST someone is what has gotten us HERE in the first place?

"I don't want Hllary to win so I am voting for Obama, even though I hate him too."

"Couldn't possibly stand another Republican for another second, so I'm voting for Obama...even though I am not certain of his voting record and he's a nube."


"Too many jackasses are gonna vote for McCain, I can't vote for who I want cause then it' will virtually give Clinton a vote."


I mean come on. Can't we do better than this? I don't think this is what our FF's had in mind and it's no wonder everything is f'd up.

(No...I'm not an idealist. But I believe I do have my mind made up to vote for who I want in...not vote for who I don't want in. Call it a throwaway or gimme...whatever)

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Weathered Newbie

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I mean come on. Can't we do better than this? I don't think this is what our FF's had in mind and it's no wonder everything is f'd up.


 

 

I don't think that you could be more correct right here. Sadly, this is what we've been handed, and I think that the key right now is undoing a lot of the bad that has been done to this nation, both here and abroad, in the past 25 years or so.

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orangekick Newbie

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i heard someone at a confrence use the term "pennsyl-tucky" because they were from northwestern-midwestern area of PA. and guess what's there? NOTHING. i thought it was funny so i use it on occasion.


im from the other side of the state, where there's buildings and such, and the occasional highway.
:thu:



I'm from central Pennsylvania and some friends of mine and I started referring to PA as Pennsyltucky when we were in New York city sometime around 1993. I'm not sure where it came from, but we've been saying it for at least that long.

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lackingimpact Newbie

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Don't you think this voting AGAINST someone is what has gotten us HERE in the first place?


"I don't want Hllary to win so I am voting for Obama, even though I hate him too."


"Couldn't possibly stand another Republican for another second, so I'm voting for Obama...even though I am not certain of his voting record and he's a nube."



"Too many jackasses are gonna vote for McCain, I can't vote for who I want cause then it' will virtually give Clinton a vote."



I mean come on. Can't we do better than this? I don't think this is what our FF's had in mind and it's no wonder everything is f'd up.


(No...I'm not an idealist. But I believe I do have my mind made up to vote for who I want in...not vote for who I don't want in. Call it a throwaway or gimme...whatever)

 

 

what do you think the primary is for? there was a plethora of candidates.. now it's down to 2 in the democratic party duking it out and the republican party already decided. there's also the Green party for when Nader comes in and tries to mess things up again.

 

these people are only on top because this is what the majority that, actually go out there and vote, have chosen.. unlike the OP is who complaining and didn't even vote.

 

what's the US voting turn out? 20-30%? blame the other 70% of the population not caring enough to make a difference.

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