Is rack gear the next "vintage" trend?

[Valtiel]

I apoligize if I seem so to you, It is not the desired effect.

 

 

Well it sure seems to come across that way.

 

I just know from first hand experience that Zachman is a stand up guy willing to spend time helping a complete stranger for no other reason than he has a passion for his music and equipment.

[DyeMusica]

No, session work in Hawaii isn't like it was when I was in LA... I like not having to do session work to pay bills anymore. I like it now that I can live here and enjoy playing when I feel like it. And... having the gear of my dreams makes playing quite enjoyable. What National acts do you do session work for? Clips?

 

 

So now you WANT me to drop names, so that I can be called a name dropper?

Exactly.

Tools for the trade, that your not a part of.

No offense, but in the end your rack is your own desire, and your right, but to tell anyone that to be a studio musician you need to have the tools, and that rack is a tool for the trade, then you obviously have been talking to the kids on the forum a little too long as that is not the case. I was in LA last month, not ten years ago.

Like your rack?

Kick ass!

But I cannot base my answer to the question this thread posted, on your advice, but I can use your rack, and your words, and your vids to prove my point.

[Zachman]

So now you WANT me to drop names, so that I can be called a name dropper? Exactly. Tools for the trade, that your not a part of. No offense, but in the end your rack is your own desire, and your right, but to tell anyone that to be a studio musician you need to have the tools, and that rack is a tool for the trade, then you obviously have been talking to the kids on the forum a little too long as that is not the case. I was in LA last month, not ten years ago. Like your rack? Kick ass! But I cannot base my answer to the question this thread posted, on your advice, but I can use your rack, and your words, and your vids to prove my point.

 

Don't be a brick. The fact that I don't do much session work anymore, or tour anymore doesn't eliminate my ability to converse on the subject, nor does it detract from the "merits and considerations" of using rack gear, pedals, amps etc, that I've been discussing....

[DyeMusica]

Well it sure seems to come across that way. I just know from first hand experience that Zachman is a stand up guy willing to spend time helping a complete stranger for no other reason than he has a passion for his music and equipment.

Well then things are what they are, if you think that then I cant change your opinion and wont try.


As for Zachman helping people Im sure this is the case, as he seems like a straight up guy fair enough, but again, Im answering a question the thread asked, and he took offense enough to prove his point by not proving it. He did show a vid of BB running his rig, and it was overchorused and seriously over effected though, that was nice...

In the national circut, right now, you dont see the racks like the days of old, you just dont.

And as for studio musicians, well, we work hard for the very small money we get, and dont take kindly to the claim made by every internet cover band, 40 something, guitarist with more money than brains that he is a famous studio guitarist.

[Zachman]

Well then things are what they are, if you think that then I cant change your opinion and wont try. As for Zachman helping people Im sure this is the case, as he seems like a straight up guy fair enough, but again, Im answering a question the thread asked, and he took offense enough to prove his point by not proving it. He did show a vid of BB running his rig, and it was overchorused and seriously over effected though, that was nice... In the national circut, right now, you dont see the racks like the days of old, you just dont. And as for studio musicians, well, we work hard for the very small money we get, and dont take kindly to the claim made by every internet cover band, 40 something, guitarist with more money than brains that he is a famous studio guitarist.

 

When I was discussing session guys, I was referring to "A List" session guys, Like Landau... You do know who he is right? (who do more than just get by, and who DO still use a massive rig for sessions) I believe he is still the #1 session guy for the last what 10 years now.

[DyeMusica]

Don't be a brick. The fact that I don't do much session work anymore, or tour anymore doesn't eliminate my ability to converse on the subject, nor does it detract from the "merits and considerations" of using rack gear, pedals, amps etc....

No of course it doesnt, and in reality I do value your opinion on racks and high end tube amps from what you have posted.
You are a smart guy, there is no doubt.

But that doesnt mean that I can count your opinion on whats happening on the national mid-large level tour circut or the LA session scene is accurate having not being a part of it anymore.
Racks like yours will never be removed from the studios, but the days of them being seen on the road, or actually being used for what their true possiblity in the studio is far diminished as of late.

[Zachman]

 

No of course it doesnt, and in reality I do value your opinion on racks and high end tube amps from what you have posted. You are a smart guy, there is no doubt. But that doesnt mean that I can count your opinion on whats happening on the national mid-large level tour circut or the LA session scene is accurate having not being a part of it anymore. Racks like yours will never be removed from the studios, but the days of them being seen on the road, or actually being used for what their true possiblity in the studio is far diminished as of late.

 

 

I admit openly that my rig has set a new precedence in the insane category. I am not now, nor have I EVER suggested that it's required for all or required for good results, or that it's required by ALL circuit session players.

 

It is a prime example of self indulgence. Designed by me, to do what I want.

 

I know that when I last had my rig at a session, I was glad I did, because I didn't know the client or what they had in mind, and found it rather useful to be able to dial in several tones on the fly for them to consider. Had I only had a Twin, and a Tele... That session would've been rather short lived. Those who can do. (Not a slam, just a statement of fact) I'd rather have the options that my rig provides than not, and IMO, the benefits FAR outweigh the BS.

[DyeMusica]

When I was discussing session guys, I was referring to "A List" session guys, Like Landau... You do know who he is right? (who do more than just get by, and who DO still use a massive rig for sessions) I believe he is still the #1 session guy for the last what 10 years now.

 

 

We both know he rarely moves it.

And his A list status gives him the ability to do his tracking in his own base studio for other artists right?

Lets say that there are 10% of the studio hired guns that still use the giant racks and move them from one place to another.

That leaves thousands, THOUSANDS who dont.

I dont make the rules, and Im not saying this to make myself sound cool, but the days of the moster racks are over except for the stationary rigs, or those who wish to spend the money, or the labels money to move em, and thats not a whole lot of people, even more so with gas prices effected the musicians guild as it is now.

[DyeMusica]

I admit openly that my rig has set a new precedence in the insane category. I am not now, nor have I EVER suggested that it's required for all or required for good results, or that it's required by ALL circuit session players. It is a prime example of self indulgence. Designed by me, to do what I want.

 

 

And more power to you for building what you want!

[DyeMusica]

In reality, Camm Marshalls, and ancient un modded twins as well as the other b amps are what Im seeing sitting in most studios Ive been lucky enough to grace as of late.

[Zachman]

Lets say that there are 10% of the studio hired guns that still use the giant racks and move them from one place to another. That leaves thousands, THOUSANDS who dont. I dont make the rules, and Im not saying this to make myself sound cool, but the days of the moster racks are over except for the stationary rigs, or those who wish to spend the money, or the labels money to move em, and thats not a whole lot of people, even more so with gas prices effected the musicians guild as it is now.

Again, I was NEVER arguing the fact that there are almost always exceptions to the way things are. It goes without saying that there are FAR less guys with rigs like mine, Landau's etc... then those of us with them. Yet, it's amazing how many MORE guys there are that argue the usefulness of them, when they haven't got a damn clue what they're talking about re: what they do, making comments like too much chorused tones and the like (obtuse)-When we BOTH know damned well, that HOW one chooses to program a rig, certainly isn't a reflection of what a rig is capable of doing. I believe that is why the douche bag comment was made to you, and why I said that those types of comments are more reflective of one's lack of creativity with, ability to operate, and program such a set of tools, when they are made to me.

The days of the monster racks are not over at all. They are just not used by a lot of guys however; they re still used a lot, by those of us who can and do have them.

Heck I just sold a TC 1210 to Dave Phillips of LA Sound Design, which is going in the rig he's building for the upcoming tour for the Band 311. Racks are NOT dead, and I'm not as out of the loop as you might think. Don't worry though, I won't name drop anymore.

[The*Ataris]

I figure those who take the position that you seem to, are more describing their lack of creativity, and ability to operate-with any efficiency- the available tools to get a given result. The argument seems to also frame clearly the lack of vision that others may just have different requirements from their gear, and have more sophisticated needs and tastes that you do as well. That's ok though, whenever I play shows and guys like you are opening, I end up not having to try as hard, to get my sound because in contrast it is so glaringly obvious whose sound is more professional sounding. (It isn't theirs) I guess I really enjoy being able to get their sounds with my rigs, and them not being able to get mine, when they want to act like arrogant little minded puss heads.. hehehehhe Perspective is useful and fun. You should try some.

 

 

You know, I was reading this thread and thinking to myself, "different strokes', right?

 

Well, this paragraph struck me oddly. What makes you think you can cop or better my tone with your tower of crap? How is your approach more "sophisticated" than someone who plugs into a vintage Bandmaster or Superlead?

 

I can generally care less about what most people play as long as it represents the music well, but to be honest, I end up laughing at guys who drag really elaborate guitar rigs into clubs and end up sucking or sounding like diarrhea.

 

I'm really glad you enjoy what you play, but your tone took a really arrogant swing in that quote. Don't be so sure of yourself...

[Zachman]

Again, I was NEVER arguing the fact that there are almost always exceptions to the way things are. It goes without saying that there are FAR less guys with rigs like mine, Landau's etc... then those of us with them. Yet, it's amazing how many MORE guys there are that argue the usefulness of them, when they haven't got a damn clue what they're talking about re: what they do, making comments like too much chorused tones and the like (obtuse)-When we BOTH know damned well, that HOW one chooses to program a rig, certainly isn't a reflection of what a rig is capable of doing. I believe that is why the douche bag comment was made to you, and why I said that those types of comments are more reflective of one's lack of creativity with, ability to operate, and program such a set of tools, when they are made to me.

 

[Zachman]

 

In reality, Camm Marshalls, and ancient un modded twins as well as the other b amps are what Im seeing sitting in most studios Ive been lucky enough to grace as of late.

 

 

My friend's Studio (I won't name drop, but he is a well known producer/writer for TV, and film) in Burbank, and his amp compliment is Marshall Plexi's, Vox AC30's, Twins, Matchless, and yes, 5150's. He has some extremely nice guitars too. SSL Model J console, floor to ceiling Protools, Eventide, TC Electronic, Lexicon remote controls, Uries, Leslies, etc...

 

I Love going into studios that have a nice compliment of goodies.

[RyGy]

Wow I don't think I can remember reading a thread that got so off topic. I just want to add my $0.02 to the original question on rack gear becoming a vintage trend. There is a lot of cool rack gear out there. Engl has three rack preamp models, and three rack power amps. Egnater makes the M4 rack pre, VHT is redesigning the GP3 preamp, and makes some killer power amps.

 

I agree with Zach that it is all about flexibility. I am pretty new to the rack gear, but I can already see that you can for instance have one rack with a preamp, and effects, then your power amps in seperate cases so that if you need mega power bring a big power amp. If you don't bring a small power amp. You can always have a ss power amp with your pre, and effects so that if your power amp screws up you are not totally dead. I also think that if you want some effects, but hate pedals you can make a small rack rig that is much smaller then a road case for a head, and rack.

 

The other advantage of racks is with my new band my wife is playing bass. I am rack mounting her bass amp with my guitar stuff. It takes two people to carry, but it is easier to move then both amps separately.

[Zachman]

Wow I don't think I can remember reading a thread that got so off topic. I just want to add my $0.02 to the original question on rack gear becoming a vintage trend. There is a lot of cool rack gear out there. Engl has three rack preamp models, and three rack power amps. Egnater makes the M4 rack pre, VHT is redesigning the GP3 preamp, and makes some killer power amps. I agree with Zach that it is all about flexibility. I am pretty new to the rack gear, but I can already see that you can for instance have one rack with a preamp, and effects, then your power amps in seperate cases so that if you need mega power bring a big power amp. If you don't bring a small power amp. You can always have a ss power amp with your pre, and effects so that if your power amp screws up you are not totally dead. I also think that if you want some effects, but hate pedals you can make a small rack rig that is much smaller then a road case for a head, and rack. The other advantage of racks is with my new band my wife is playing bass. I am rack mounting her bass amp with my guitar stuff. It takes two people to carry, but it is easier to move then both amps separately.

 

I named my big rack Dolly, because it has wheels on it, and I can use it to put other gear on top and roll it across the parking lot, minimizing trips.

 

The 20 space rack is around 250lbs, but my 17 year old son and I can lift it without any problem AT ALL. Granted if there are stairs, I will likely NOT be taking the big rig.

[Zachman]

Wow I don't think I can remember reading a thread that got so off topic. I just want to add my $0.02 to the original question on rack gear becoming a vintage trend. There is a lot of cool rack gear out there. Engl has three rack preamp models, and three rack power amps. Egnater makes the M4 rack pre, VHT is redesigning the GP3 preamp, and makes some killer power amps. I agree with Zach that it is all about flexibility. I am pretty new to the rack gear, but I can already see that you can for instance have one rack with a preamp, and effects, then your power amps in seperate cases so that if you need mega power bring a big power amp. If you don't bring a small power amp. You can always have a ss power amp with your pre, and effects so that if your power amp screws up you are not totally dead. I also think that if you want some effects, but hate pedals you can make a small rack rig that is much smaller then a road case for a head, and rack. The other advantage of racks is with my new band my wife is playing bass. I am rack mounting her bass amp with my guitar stuff. It takes two people to carry, but it is easier to move then both amps separately.

 

AMEN...

 

I admit the big rig isn't for EVERY occasion, but preface that with it sounds better for every occasion. I have a small rig, a pedal setup and various amps and guitars that are selected for what is appropriate.

 

Early on I recognized the advantages of being able to NOT move tons of gear, so I can have one rig in the studio, and one set up at rehersal and rigs at a couple of other gig locations, without having to run around like a chicken without a head on days that I have a tight schedule. I also discovered a taste for fine gear early on. I got my first TC 2290 back in 1987, and my first Mesa/Boogie back in 1980.

 

Don't get me wrong... The head/combo sound great, the pedal board sounds really good:

 

 

BUT the Big rig crushes them in the tone category, flexibility category, versatility category, and the control category. The only draw back to the big rigs is it's size. No one in their right mind could argue that it doesn't make an obvious tonal impact and difference that isn't equalled with the pedal setup.

 

[theykilledhim]

and the guys who want pedals so they can make ambient noises, as opposed to writing songs and learning to play....

that's all i ever used a my big muff for though i've kind of grown out of that i wouldn't say that people do that can't play, steven o'malley and greg anderson from sunn o))) have been in many bands where they actually play their instruments.

[Zachman]

that's all i ever used a my big muff for though i've kind of grown out of that i wouldn't say that people do that can't play, steven o'malley and greg anderson from sunn o))) have been in many bands where they actually play their instruments.

I wouldn't, (well, maybe I would), but I didn't say that either. Heck I have pedals in my big rack too.

[The*Ataris]

Thanks... I am sure of my self, because for the most part I've played a lot of the gear that the pedal pusher nazi types have, or yearn to have and I've played my gear and the gear that I've played over the years and have a frame of reference that those who tend to object the loudest, just don't have. Many confuse arrogance with confidence. I did explain what I meant here: Did you miss it? (not trying to be obnoxious, I just figure this may clear up my intent a bit).

Well, I did miss that particular quote and do mistake your confidence for arrogance

I think it's silly for everyone to be attacking you and I think it's silly for you to look down people like me who don't require that kind of versatility. Everyone requires something different for the music they create and I've been 100% content with my setup for many years now, and I really do appreciate that you enjoy the equipment you play.

[Zachman]

I hear you...and I appreciate your ability to consider both sides. I think we've established the difference between us as guitar players too: I simply have no need to be able to do all the things you just described. I'm a guitar player in a band that isn't guitar-centric; my job to compliment a vocal idea, generally, and a versatile setup is not necessary. I love boutique pedals, and do drag around a modest pedalboard, but my sound is really just a Tele into a compresssor into an overdrive into an old Marshall. I have some "toys" on there, but they rarely make it into songs. I want one great tone that I can boost with a pedal and clean up with a volume knob. There are a lot of guitar players who sound like ass, period, and they use all kinds of equipment too. I'm not sure you can generalize pedal users, rack users, or "straight in" guys at all. There are those with tasteful tone and there are those who don't. Well, I did miss that particular quote and do mistake your confidence for arrogance I think it's silly for everyone to be attacking you and I think it's silly for you to look down people like me who don't require that kind of versatility. Everyone requires something different for the music they create and I've been 100% content with my setup for many years now, and I really do appreciate that you enjoy the equipment you play.

PLEASE let me correct this... I do NOT look down on those who don't require that kind of versatility. Heck, I do gigs that only require an acoustic guitar sometimes. I look down on those who don't recognize that there are those of us who DO require that kind of versatility and/or those of us who appreciate it, and then they bash us and our preferences for rack gear or ANYTHING different than they deem worthy (on principal) or because they can't find the insight to recognize-- there are those of us with different requirements, tastes, and desires than they have. It just is extra aggravating when they are totally without a frame of reference to make such ridiculous assertions. You know, as well as I do that there are many who are into sport trolling and the closest they've ever gotten to messing around with the gear that they dismiss, are the pictures of my rig.

[guitarman967]

Whay can't a rack rig be a combonation of both? There are some good rack preamps out there like the Bogner Fish, the Triaxis, VHT GP3 and many more but I've always been a tube amp guy. Thankfully, the amps that I love the most all have a MIDI interface built in:thu:

I'm actually in the process of scaling down this rig but honestly there's no way I could pull off the sounds on a record without my rack stuff. Expression pedals open up a whole new world and every song can have stored parameters and tones.
What's wrong with that??

Sometimes I get the feeling that the guys in these threads that talj down about rack gear have never really gotten down and dirty with this stuff. If they had they would know how valuable it can be..
If you're searching for an original sound you're more likey to find it in racks then in a les paul and marshall IMO

[Zachman]

Whay can't a rack rig be a combonation of both? There are some good rack preamps out there like the Bogner Fish, the Triaxis and manymore but I've always been a tube amp guy. Thankfully, the amps that I love the most all have a MIDI interface built in:thu:

I would say that the most flexible ones are BOTH pedal, and rack, analog, digital etc...

[guitarman967]

PLEASE let me correct this... I do NOT look down on those who don't require that kind of versatility. Heck, I do gigs that only require an acoustic guitar sometimes. I look down on those who don't recognize that there are those of us who DO require that kind of versatility and/or those of us who appreciate it, and then they bash us and our preferences for rack gear or ANYTHING different than they deem worthy (on principal) or because they can't find the insight to recognize-- there are those of us with different requirements, tastes, and desires than they have. It just is extra aggravating when they are totally without a frame of reference to make such ridiculous assertions. You know, as well as I do that there are many who are into sport trolling and the closest they've ever gotten to messing around with the gear that they dismiss, are the pictures of my rig.

Zack I share your sentiments as well. It seems like alot of players are real happy just retreading old ground..How many people just want to sound like Hendrix or Page over the years? People shell out big bucks to get old amplifiers that produce sounds that are redundant and cliche at this point..
For the most point I can't understand that but again to each there own. Just dont tell me that MY way isnt valid and everything's cool..

[guitarman967]

I would say that the most flexible ones are BOTH pedal, and rack, analog, digital etc...

totally man, I feel like I've got the best of ALL worlds in that rig. I can even swap out other MIDI controllable tube heads in the headshell.

Some say that rig is overblown and to some extent that's true but when I was playing in different types of bands it was amazing handy to have all the tones I needed under the hood in one rig. I'm spoiled by that honestly but again I would like to downsize the rig somewhat as well. The problem is in what I should leave out:confused: