Is rack gear the next "vintage" trend?

[Zachman]

Rack loses. Maybe if I'm playing stadiums, I'd consider it, but apart from that, why bother. This: plus this, wins:

 

The only lose- with racks is when: those ("pedal only" people or nazi purists) who prefer less control, limited signal routing, noisier signal chains, and are limited to part time wages are discussing them, or have specifically simple needs, then try to assert their requirements on others (As if they have a clue, what requirements another may have).

[DyeMusica]

Yes, Its a fad that will eventually die off..
Im sure some of the older crowd will keep their stuff, and those that use a {censored} load of chorus sounding stuff will hang on for as long as possible.
But it is for sure a dying breed at this point.

[DyeMusica]

Rack loses. Maybe if I'm playing stadiums, I'd consider it, but apart from that, why bother. This: plus this, wins:

[Zachman]

Yes, Its a fad that will eventually die off.. Im sure some of the older crowd will keep their stuff, and those that use a {censored} load of chorus sounding stuff will hang on for as long as possible. But it is for sure a dying breed at this point.

 

 

Only in noob circles, is it a dying breed.

[Valtiel]

rack mounted effects are to difficult to install and maintain.

Hey, just cause you cant figure it out dosent mean the rest of us cant.

[Zachman]

Hey, just cause you cant figure it out dosent mean the rest of us cant.

EXACTLY...

[Valtiel]

Only in noob circles, is it a dying breed.

Cmon Zach, its all wayyy too hard to figure out. More cables?!? Pshh, im not some sort of doctor or something. :rolleyes:

[Zachman]

i tell ya, some people just don't get it. having a rack does not mean that it has to be complex. in my case, it's quite the opposite. i have stuff that every guitar player uses (or should) and it's in the most compact easy to use form possible. in my amp is: wireless reciever power supply tuner amp that's it. so all this crap about complexity and maintenance is just that, crap. a rack is no more or less complex than a pedalboard, it's just a hell of a lot easier to deal with. if you like to use lots of FX, a rack would simplify your life. if you like to plug straight in, a rack will simplify your life. either way, rack wins.

 

 

+9999999999999:thu:

[Zachman]

Cmon Zach, its all wayyy too hard to figure out. More cables?!? Pshh, im not some sort of doctor or something. :rolleyes:

 

Well... there is also the menu thing, I mean seriously I can certainly understand how someone having a discussion on a effects forum, on the internet, on a "menu driven" computer would have such a hard time, with an infinitely simpler menu drive processor.

[DyeMusica]

Only in noob circles, is it a dying breed.

 

 

Haha, nice try gramps, Im far from a newb.

 

Now rack rigs that are basically preamps, and power amps will probably always be around, as some people like a simple set up and its easy to pop off the face and run em.

Hell I used to run two dual racktifryers in a rack case, so just the word rack doesnt always mean over chorus'd horrible pat benatar covers.

 

Its the chest high, mount lights in it, Im trying to make up for something, guys that are dying off.

 

Which is fine with me, Id rather take one of my beat up tube heads and cabs to a gig anyday, save the over processed sound for the cover band dudes.

[Valtiel]

Well... there is also the menu thing, I mean seriously I can certainly understand how someone having a discussion on a effects forum, on the internet, on a "menu driven" computer would have such a hard time, with an infinitely simpler menu drive processor.

Yea totally, leave the menus at the {censored}in restaurants.

[MightyThor]

yes it's the new vintage. People are asking about REV numbers for ADA MP-1's.

[Valtiel]

 

Haha, nice try gramps, Im far from a newb. Now rack rigs that are basically preamps, and power amps will probably always be around, as some people like a simple set up and its easy to pop off the face and run em. Hell I used to run two dual racktifryers in a rack case, so just the word rack doesnt always mean over chorus'd horrible pat benatar covers. Its the chest high, mount lights in it, Im trying to make up for something, guys that are dying off. Which is fine with me, Id rather take one of my beat up tube heads and cabs to a gig anyday, save the over processed sound for the cover band dudes.

 

 

Dude, no one is dying off. There are all just tools. Some people like more tools, others dont. Its a preference, not criteria used to judge someone by.

[Zachman]

Haha, nice try gramps, Im far from a newb. Now rack rigs that are basically preamps, and power amps will probably always be around, as some people like a simple set up and its easy to pop off the face and run em. Hell I used to run two dual racktifryers in a rack case, so just the word rack doesnt always mean over chorus'd horrible pat benatar covers. Its the chest high, mount lights in it, Im trying to make up for something, guys that are dying off. Which is fine with me, Id rather take one of my beat up tube heads and cabs to a gig anyday, save the over processed sound for the cover band dudes.

 

Agreed that a rack is simply an enclosure spec.

 

I think a lot of the "over-processed" tones from the 80's can be credited to producers. The fact that one has tons of gear, doesn't mean it has to all be on all the time or that subtlety isn't or shouldn't be applied. OF course, the noise generated crap that some pedal guys like to do, could surely be put in the same category of "over processed" sounds of cover bands, so it seems that the anti-rack argument falls apart there.

 

The fact that some guys do make a living playing in cover bands, and/or doing studio session work and require varying equipment to do their jobs, isn't a short coming. They are using the tools available to them.

 

I figure those who take the position that you seem to, are more describing their lack of creativity, and ability to operate-with any efficiency- the available tools to get a given result. The argument seems to also frame clearly the lack of vision that others may just have different requirements from their gear, and have more sophisticated needs and tastes that you do as well. That's ok though, whenever I play shows and guys like you are opening, I end up not having to try as hard, to get my sound because in contrast it is so glaringly obvious whose sound is more professional sounding. (It isn't theirs) I guess I really enjoy being able to get their sounds with my rigs, and them not being able to get mine, when they want to act like arrogant little minded puss heads.. hehehehhe Perspective is useful and fun. You should try some.

[Zachman]

Yea totally, leave the menus at the {censored}in restaurants.

I like how- I don't have to reset every damned knob on every pedal on my pedal board, for every song and gig, because the "menu" allows me to save the presets and recall them later. I guess, that makes me lazy. I can live with that.

[JBecker]

I figure those who take the position that you seem to, are more describing their lack of creativity, and ability to operate-with any efficiency- the available tools to get a given result. The argument seems to also frame clearly the lack of vision that others may just have different requirements from their gear, and have more sophisticated needs and tastes that you do as well.

 

 

Or maybe, these people look at a rack and look at the programming, and start going through the menus to create sounds, and it just doesn't work for them. Maybe when they hit a pedal with their foot while noodling around, they think they hear something cool, and turn the knob one way or the other to get it set where you were thinking, and then they're quite creative and quite efficient.

 

Maybe you're creative and efficient with a huge rack and blinking lights, and other are efficient and creative with a huge board and blinking lights.

 

For someone who always preaches on the one hand, racks are just a tool for those who need or want that kind of thing, you sure do have a second heavy hand that seems to say if you don't run a rack you either a) Can't play complex stuff b) Don't want to have versatility (this argument is the most retarded...) c) Don't have the creativity to utilize all the {censored} you've got in a rack d) Are just diluted and a trend follower.

 

I don't think any of that second hand has a single ounce of merit.

[DyeMusica]

That's ok though, whenever I play shows and guys like you are opening, I end up not having to try as hard, to get my sound becaus ein contrast is is so glaringly obvious whose sound is more professional sounding.

HAHAHA.
Another fail.
You dont know who I am playing with actually, as Ive only got one of my bands posted here as my sig, not even my main band.
I also work as REAL studio musician, in studios not owned by my fake uncle there bra.

Ive opened for alot of people, and they have opened for me, ( im 37 and have been doing this since I was 16 ) and never once was it at the hardrock for some aging cover band. I have always been paid, although sometimes rather small, but never did a cover gig, ever.
I make great money for what I do, and spend alot of time in studios, so YOU, telling a grip of kids the law is one thing, but in the real world, The 200lb racks are not whats going anywhere when the call comes to go to LA to record, as how would you even move that thing?




As for racks, again, they are nothing more than another form of amplification, and can be set up as such, in that right of course they are never going anywhere, but the 32 space, with extra lights put in em, in my experience, which isnt sitting on a island collecting gear nothing more, is what is dying off and is only seen when I decided to leave the club and hit a casino and hear a old cover band.

As any amp, they are what you make of it, they arent any more difficult than anything else, but when one says its about having multiple creative outlets, thenforgets the simple fact that listening to his clips there is nothing that even remotely sounds any different, well, Yea....

Some guys can take a rack rig and make it SOUND GOOD, others can make a rack rig LOOK good while sounding the same on every song, which are you Zachman?
lol.

[Zachman]

Or maybe, these people look at a rack and look at the programming, and start going through the menus to create sounds, and it just doesn't work for them. Maybe when they hit a pedal with their foot while noodling around, they think they hear something cool, and turn the knob one way or the other to get it set where you were thinking, and then they're quite creative and quite efficient. Maybe you're creative and efficient with a huge rack and blinking lights, and other are efficient and creative with a huge board and blinking lights. For someone who always preaches on the one hand, racks are just a tool for those who need or want that kind of thing, you sure do have a second heavy hand that seems to say if you don't run a rack you either a) Can't play complex stuff b) Don't want to have versatility (this argument is the most retarded...) c) Don't have the creativity to utilize all the {censored} you've got in a rack d) Are just diluted and a trend follower. I don't think any of that second hand has a single ounce of merit.

 

 

You misunderstand... I have, and I know you know this-used and still do, use pedal solutions. I wrote what I did as a counter point, to the idea that racks are useless (paraphrasing).

 

Regarding

 

a) playing complex stuff (I wasn't addressing playing complex stuff, rather discussing producing complex sounds, and being able to control them without doing a River Dance, and having a limited signal routing chain of a bunch of pedals in series)

 

b) Don't want to have versatility (this argument is the most retarded...) (The fact that rack stuff is what it i, and when run to it's max potential, it is retarded for someone to argue that it ISN'T more versatile. That's just crazy talk.

 

c) Don't have the creativity to utilize all the {censored} you've got in a rack (That is a comeback that I feel is appropriate to use when discussing with those who would argue that rack is whack) as they are clearly NOT taking into consideration the requirements of the guys they're addressing.

 

d) Are just diluted and a trend follower (Well... take a look around here, and I wouldn't call me a trend follower.) The 200 what is the best fuzz, OD, DMM threads speak more toward trends than I do.

[Zachman]

HAHAHA. Another fail. You dont know who I am playing with actually, as Ive only got one of my bands posted here as my sig, not even my main band. I also work as REAL studio musician, in studios not owned by my fake uncle there bra. Ive opened for alot of people, and they have opened for me, ( im 37 and have been doing this since I was 16 ) and never once was it at the hardrock for some aging cover band. I have always been paid, although sometimes rather small, but never did a cover gig, ever. I make great money for what I do, and spend alot of time in studios, so YOU, telling a grip of kids the law is one thing, but in the real world, The 200lb racks are not whats going anywhere when the call comes to go to LA to record, as how would you even move that thing? As for racks, again, they are nothing more than another form of amplification, and can be set up as such, in that right of course they are never going anywhere, but the 32 space, with extra lights put in em, in my experience, which isnt sitting on a island collecting gear nothing more, is what is dying off and is only seen when I decided to leave the club and hit a casino and hear a old cover band. As any amp, they are what you make of it, they arent any more difficult than anything else, but when one says its about having multiple creative outlets, thenforgets the simple fact that listening to his clips there is nothing that even remotely sounds any different, well, Yea.... Some guys can take a rack rig and make it SOUND GOOD, others can make a rack rig LOOK good while sounding the same on every song, which are you Zachman? lol.

 

Thanks for the resume... I doesn't really detract from the points I made. It rather, supports them. I wasn't the one telling you or anyone else that what you are doing re: your gear selection is lacking.

 

Rockit Cargo and a few others is how the rig gets transported, though as a "Real" session guy I'm sure you're familiar with the fact that if one is doing sessions for clients you know, and their needs don't require more than a Twin, that you rent it for gigs you need to fly in for.

 

When I do the recording for the Dick Clark New Years show and others, I use the big rig... I have for the last several years, 7 now.(of course the rig has had a few updates over the years)

[DyeMusica]

Or maybe, these people look at a rack and look at the programming, and start going through the menus to create sounds, and it just doesn't work for them. Maybe when they hit a pedal with their foot while noodling around, they think they hear something cool, and turn the knob one way or the other to get it set where you were thinking, and then they're quite creative and quite efficient. Maybe you're creative and efficient with a huge rack and blinking lights, and other are efficient and creative with a huge board and blinking lights. For someone who always preaches on the one hand, racks are just a tool for those who need or want that kind of thing, you sure do have a second heavy hand that seems to say if you don't run a rack you either a) Can't play complex stuff b) Don't want to have versatility (this argument is the most retarded...) c) Don't have the creativity to utilize all the {censored} you've got in a rack d) Are just diluted and a trend follower. I don't think any of that second hand has a single ounce of merit.

 

 

 

 

+1111111111111111111111111111

 

Glad someone else noticed.

[Zachman]

+1111111111111111111111111111 Glad someone else noticed.

 

 

I hope you read music better than you read English

[JBecker]

You misunderstand... I have, and I know you know this-used and still do, use pedal solutions. I wrote what I did as a counter point, to the idea that racks are useless (paraphrasing). Regarding a) playing complex stuff (I wasn't addressing playing complex stuff, rather discussing producing complex sounds, and being able to control them without doing a River Dance, and having a limited signal routing chain of a bunch of pedals in series)

 

Complex sounds can be had in various ways.

 

b) Don't want to have versatility (this argument is the most retarded...) (The fact that rack stuff is what it i, and when run to it's max potential, it is retarded for someone to argue that it ISN'T more versatile. That's just crazy talk.

 

It's stupid because someone only needs as much versatility as they need. I need a single channel Marshall style amp and I can play anything I'd ever want and more. I can get great jazz sounds straight to metal and everything in between. That's plenty for me. The versatility thing just doesn't matter because you're going to use what reaches your level and kind of versatility, no more, no less.

 

c) Don't have the creativity to utilize all the {censored} you've got in a rack (That is a comeback that I feel is appropriate to use when discussing with those who would argue that rack is whack) as they are clearly NOT taking into consideration the requirements of the guys they're addressing.

 

I often think that most mega-rigs are over done and far beyond "requirements". Which is fine-- it's all for fun anyway. But as you know, because I've seen you're smaller rigs, "requirements" are typically rather sparse no matter how you want to sound.

 

d) Are just diluted and a trend follower (Well... take a look around here, and I wouldn't call me a trend follower.) The 200 what is the best fuzz, OD, DMM threads speak more toward trends than I do.

 

 

I dno. When I started playing guitar I never used fuzz pedals or OD really, though with each amp purchase I've always considered going Twin OD before finding somethign else. With my most recent amp, at an ampfest, a friend asked me to try his new fuzz through my amp thinking it would sound killer. I did, and it was awesome. Totally changed the way I can use my amp. So I bought one. I had a DMM because that was the model I was using on my Line 6 Dl4 exclusively so why not buy the real thing since that seemed to match the sounds I was going for with delay anyway (that has since changed).

 

I don't think these things are trends so much as they're classics/staples.

[Zachman]

 

Complex sounds can be had in various ways. It's stupid because someone only needs as much versatility as they need. I need a single channel Marshall style amp and I can play anything I'd ever want and more. I can get great jazz sounds straight to metal and everything in between. That's plenty for me. The versatility thing just doesn't matter because you're going to use what reaches your level and kind of versatility, no more, no less. I often think that most mega-rigs are over done and far beyond "requirements". Which is fine-- it's all for fun anyway. But as you know, because I've seen you're smaller rigs, "requirements" are typically rather sparse no matter how you want to sound. I dno. When I started playing guitar I never used fuzz pedals or OD really, though with each amp purchase I've always considered going Twin OD before finding somethign else. With my most recent amp, at an ampfest, a friend asked me to try his new fuzz through my amp thinking it would sound killer. I did, and it was awesome. Totally changed the way I can use my amp. So I bought one. I had a DMM because that was the model I was using on my Line 6 Dl4 exclusively so why not buy the real thing since that seemed to match the sounds I was going for with delay anyway (that has since changed). I don't think these things are trends so much as they're classics/staples.

 

 

Suffice it to say that often there are many ways to get the sound/sounds you're after. Sometimes there are very few maybe even only one. Rack stuff deals with not only the means to get the sounds, but also to control the devices that get them, in real time. (No tap dancing. This can be a huge deal especially if you need to turn on/off 5 pedals for a section and then turn on another 4, while switching channels on your amp-for another section and so on and so on.) This is why I use it, along with the fact that there are NO pedals that sound like the processors, I prefer, nor offer the features that I prefer to have, even though I may not "NEED" them. They are nice to have when I "WANT" them.

 

The idea that there are guys who are adimately opposed to using certain gear on principal, and preaching from that perspective because of false assertions is life, I guess. There is ignorance everywhere, it seems.

 

I've said it a bunch of times already. ALL gear are mere tools to get a job done, and depending on the job- our choices are what they are. Sometimes, as you say, there are many choices, BUT... sometimes there aren't, IF we aren't willing to compromise.

[DyeMusica]

I hope you read music better than you read English

Maybe you should go back and read again:lol:

As for the resume, Im not giving one, or dropping names, you are.
Thanks dad!

[Valtiel]

Maybe you should go back and read again:lol: As for the resume, Im not giving one, or dropping names, you are. Thanks dad!

This whole argument could have been avoided if you hadnt said that huge racks are dying out and you hadnt spewed the typical "compensation" argument.