Members Polaris20 Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 So that many of you think we shouldnt drill offshore, while China is drilling off the shore of FL as we speak?Asinine... China doesn't give two {censored}s about the environment. I don't think they're the shining example of "if they're doing it, we should too". Ever been to Beijing? It's a polluted {censored} hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 So that many of you think we shouldnt drill offshore, while China is drilling off the shore of FL as we speak?Asinine... that's a pretty gross oversimplification of things. i don't think we oughta drill because there's far better alternatives already available that're being ignored because the corporate infrastructure makes oil a 'cheap and available' source of energy. ahem.. since that 'cheap and available' is no longer ONE of those things, perhaps it's time to circumvent lack of availability BEFORE it's at crisis stage. seems prudent to me. but that's not the american way-- seems we only respond to crises as impetus for change, unless it's more economically advantageous to create something else. just because {censored} is cheap and available doesn't always mean it will be ad infinitum, and the long term backlash could become neither. and that china is drilling off florida (which is the first i've heard of this-- horrifying..) bears witness to how our country's sketchy dealing'll sell off national resources.. doesn't seem like a smart plan to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaytee123 Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 Just wanna know what you all think. Yes, with conditions. We need to get our house in order as far as our energy policy, then drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nibsborg Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 Holy {censored}, are you kidding me? We have thousands of oil rigs in the Gulf and I have yet to see a drop of spilled oil on the beach in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shredbadtone Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 at our current pace all 18 billion barrels would be gone in TWO YEARS. As far as the economy goes two years ain't {censored} and drilling for oil near our shores would be a terrible waste of money. We wouldn't see nearly the return as people say we would in that short of time. Prices will continue to sky rocket and by the time we start tapping that oil the economy will be even further in the dumps. Do people really think that 18 billion barrels of oil will really make the price go down dramatically? It will already be over 10 dollars a gallon by that time so it really wouldn't ease that much of a burdon. They need to invest in turning alge into an alternative fuel. That green plant is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kang Diamond Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 Cock! Cock! Jism! Grandma! Cock!{censored} you ya carwash {censored}! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RupertB Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 hell noalternative energy ftw +1M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oblivion DC Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 Not even gonna touch the comments section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jnmartin Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 it seems like some of you guys forget about the myriad other uses of oil besides transportation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newholland Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 it seems like some of you guys forget about the myriad other uses of oil besides transportation... for example, lubricants? which are supplantable with other man mades? or plastics? which can also made with other materials like the new limonene method. is there anything made from a hydrocarbon that can't be made using something else? there may be a few residual ones, but why not spend more money figuring out ways AROUND them and thusly preparing for the FUTURE.. if the AMA told the world that dodo eggs cured cancer, with the logic our economy is using, they'd probably mine every square inch of earth to find fossilized ones rather than looking for ANOTHER solution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jnmartin Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 for example, lubricants? which are supplantable with other man mades?or plastics? which can also made with other materials like the new limonene method.is there anything made from a hydrocarbon that can't be made using something else? there may be a few residual ones, but why not spend more money figuring out ways AROUND them and thusly preparing for the FUTURE.. if the AMA told the world that dodo eggs cured cancer, with the logic our economy is using, they'd probably mine every square inch of earth to find fossilized ones rather than looking for ANOTHER solution! what im saying is, we should probably pick off the most wasteful use first (transportation), while continuing to find more of the stuff if only to ease supply worries for the other stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 How are we ever gonna not rely on oil? people used to think there would never, ever be a replacement for horses and oxen. when's the last time you drove a stagecoach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBecker Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have to say... Why spend tremendous amounts of money on an oil reserve not considered to be very big when spending similar amounts of money on other technologies can work with more sustainable results? Building wind plants and solar plants that can provide energy for 30-60 years without upgrades as opposed to digging for an amount of oil that would barely make a dent seems stupid. More than that, there are some real selective people in this thread. You guys do realize that while the US has curbed demand, developing economies like China and India (who do use less oil per GDP) have had SKYROCKETING demands and are largely responsible, along with a weakening dollar, for the jump in oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jnmartin Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have to say... Why spend tremendous amounts of money on an oil reserve not considered to be very big when spending similar amounts of money on other technologies can work with more sustainable results? Building wind plants and solar plants that can provide energy for 30-60 years without upgrades as opposed to digging for an amount of oil that would barely make a dent seems stupid. More than that, there are some real selective people in this thread. You guys do realize that while the US has curbed demand, developing economies like China and India (who do use less oil per GDP) have had SKYROCKETING demands and are largely responsible, along with a weakening dollar, for the jump in oil. Their demands aren't as increasing as fast as everyone wants to imply they are, at least not from what I've been reading. Also, bear in mind, China is still heavily subsidising their fuel and they are planning to remove those subsidies soon, so when their prices shoot up, they are going to be using a lot less than they do. I hear prices in the Middle East (Egypt anyway) have been raised recently as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shredbadtone Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have to say...Why spend tremendous amounts of money on an oil reserve not considered to be very big when spending similar amounts of money on other technologies can work with more sustainable results? Building wind plants and solar plants that can provide energy for 30-60 years without upgrades as opposed to digging for an amount of oil that would barely make a dent seems stupid.More than that, there are some real selective people in this thread. You guys do realize that while the US has curbed demand, developing economies like China and India (who do use less oil per GDP) have had SKYROCKETING demands and are largely responsible, along with a weakening dollar, for the jump in oil. yeah no {censored}! Its going to cost just as much to make those oil fields produce crude than we will even save in the long run. The U.S needs to step into its leadership roll again and start showing the world that a life beyond oil is easily done if we take the initiative and get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted June 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 IMHO the only truly available , logical, renewable resources there are is the Sun and Wind. Everything else can be controlled by asshole Politicians or Corporations. I realize that the ITEMS used to make Solar Cells and Wind Turbines are able to be controlled but thats where the only bind is... So how much Oil dose it take to make a solar cell?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBecker Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 Their demands aren't as increasing as fast as everyone wants to imply they are, at least not from what I've been reading. Also, bear in mind, China is still heavily subsidising their fuel and they are planning to remove those subsidies soon, so when their prices shoot up, they are going to be using a lot less than they do. The only people saying that their demands aren't increasing are India and China, both of whom are still talking about the GDP argument (forget about the fact that there are 1billion people), and both of whom are already enacting policies, like lifting subsidies and prices, which suggest their use is become burdensome. Btw, there were massive riots in response to higher gas prices in China. But honestly, if you think that there isn't supply and demand + inflation + speculation going on, you haven't been reading what economists are writing. It's not 100% speculation-- it's not all foreign markets just deciding to rip us off. The truth is we can make many easy investments to put ourselves in better position. The 70s led to the end of the use of oil in this country for electricity production. This most current swoop will hopefully take out cars or a few other issues. Investing billions in a dying technology to get a small pump that may not even lop off 10-15 cents per gallon does not make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jnmartin Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 The only people saying that their demands aren't increasing are India and China, both of whom are still talking about the GDP argument (forget about the fact that there are 1billion people), and both of whom are already enacting policies, like lifting subsidies and prices, which suggest their use is become burdensome. Btw, there were massive riots in response to higher gas prices in China. But honestly, if you think that there isn't supply and demand + inflation + speculation going on, you haven't been reading what economists are writing. It's not 100% speculation-- it's not all foreign markets just deciding to rip us off. The truth is we can make many easy investments to put ourselves in better position. The 70s led to the end of the use of oil in this country for electricity production. This most current swoop will hopefully take out cars or a few other issues. Investing billions in a dying technology to get a small pump that may not even lop off 10-15 cents per gallon does not make sense. It's not like I don't pay attention or I'm an idiot or anything. I know supplies aren't where they need to be to satisfy demand with a little safety net included. I know speculators keep pushing prices up from where they realistically "should be" given inflation, cost of production, etc. As far as what you mention about India and China, price control ALWAYS leads to over-use. Anyone who can deduce their way out of a brown paper bag can figure that part out. Sucks they are rioting over it (I heard the riots were in Egypt or some other middle-eastern nation, not China ). Keep suckling at the teat excessively and its gonna dry out. I'm not saying that off-shore drilling alone is enough to ease the price pressure or is a wise move, but off-shore drilling along with investing more money into accessing our (seemingly plentiful) natural resources along with investing in alternative energy like wind, tidal, geothermal, solar and everyone's favorite whipping-boy nuclear would be a hell of a thing to help us keep from getting butt-raped into obsolescence and third-world-dom. It shouldn't really about be about knocking the price down now, but preventing a price shock in the future by making sure we have enough reasonably priced energy to keep things moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 The only people saying that their demands aren't increasing are India and China, both of whom are still talking about the GDP argument (forget about the fact that there are 1billion people), and both of whom are already enacting policies, like lifting subsidies and prices, which suggest their use is become burdensome. Btw, there were massive riots in response to higher gas prices in China. But honestly, if you think that there isn't supply and demand + inflation + speculation going on, you haven't been reading what economists are writing. It's not 100% speculation-- it's not all foreign markets just deciding to rip us off. The truth is we can make many easy investments to put ourselves in better position. The 70s led to the end of the use of oil in this country for electricity production. This most current swoop will hopefully take out cars or a few other issues. Investing billions in a dying technology to get a small pump that may not even lop off 10-15 cents per gallon does not make sense. Jay i think you made some valid points but your last point is not 100% accurate, 10-15 cents based on what? I dont think we can 'drill our way' out but we are sitting on potentially TONS of oil in North Dakota, the rockies, Alaska, off our shores in Fl + Cali, we should simply drill in a GREENER/SAFER environment, we should do it. Perhaps we can also have incentives for alternative energy and conservation but lets use this oil while STILL SEARCHING 4 alternative energy, yes u can do both! BTW this is news that came out about a hr ago --- China is no longer subsidizing fuel prices (they were keeping it artificially low) now that prices in China will rise it look like the demand will actually slow down which is a good thing, heres the link:http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080619/oil_prices.htmlPS -- Again im all for alternative energy and conservation, but its just assanine to NOT use the oil we potentially have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny'sGotTheBlues Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 Yeah that's what we need to do. Draw more oil from the seabed and create more cavities in the earth where oil used to be. Good thing it looks like we'll continue to {censored} ourselves in the ass over this archaic fuel even longer man we're all {censored}ing retards Oil doesn't come out of big caverns buried under the ground. Oil is found in the matrix of porous and permeable rocks. The cavities are at the biggest knitting needle sized with rare "vugs" the size of marbles.You don't leave cavities when oil is extracted. The oil is replaced by saline ground water found in the formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Weathered Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 PS -- Again im all for alternative energy and conservation, but its just assanine to NOT use the oil we potentially have I hear it's also asinine. :poke:/spelling police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mynameistaken Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 not worth it...wait till it gets {censored}ed up and we get a nice nastyoil spill on some of the resort beachs in FL and we will regret it.. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 9ball Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 i personally think that the damage oil does to our environment is reason enough to not drill for more we are going to ruin the earth thats a pretty bold statement to make dont you think? i mean do you really think the human race is so significant that our little existence here is going to "ruin the earth" you really think the earth hasnt been "ruined" before ? the earth is going to be just fine. if we irritate it enough to where it becomes bothersome to it- it will take a big {censored} on us and wipe us off of itself and go right on like we were never here.people who fret about "manmade global warming" and "ruining the earth"- you listen to too much propaganda and profits of doom.the earth has been "ruined" before several times there's nothing we could posibly do to "ruin the earth"- lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kinggeoff Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 Oil doesn't come out of big caverns buried under the ground. Oil is found in the matrix of porous and permeable rocks. The cavities are at the biggest knitting needle sized with rare "vugs" the size of marbles. You don't leave cavities when oil is extracted. The oil is replaced by saline ground water found in the formations. We don't know fully the extent of damage that we are doing. We can theorize until the cows come home, but this will most likely be another one of those things that we look bad on and say WHAT THE {censored} WERE WE THINKING. Besides the fact that oil spills are a big problem with offshore rigs...It just spells big trouble. We're wasting so many resources pursuing new means of finding oil (even genetically modifying bugs http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece)Why can't we just settle on other fuel means? We're in the pocket of the oil co's and they're repeatedly raping us as we become more and more dependent on their product. Yeah offshore drilling is just what we need With some of the opinions expressed here, no wonder North America is {censored}ed beyond belief and just getting worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kinggeoff Posted June 19, 2008 Members Share Posted June 19, 2008 thats a pretty bold statement to make dont you think? i mean do you really think the human race is so significant that our little existence here is going to "ruin the earth" you really think the earth hasnt been "ruined" before ? the earth is going to be just fine. if we irritate it enough to where it becomes bothersome to it- it will take a big {censored} on us and wipe us off of itself and go right on like we were never here. people who fret about "manmade global warming" and "ruining the earth"- you listen to too much propaganda and profits of doom. the earth has been "ruined" before several times there's nothing we could posibly do to "ruin the earth"- lol You're right!!! Just like Mars and Venus (both of which "they say" coudl have easily been earth like planets ages ago) earth will surely bounce back just like they did:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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