OT: Should they lift offshore drilling ban?

[JBecker]

Not being a wise ass but i asked before and no 1 answered, i think we can also be more smart in our use and consumption of oil (conserve) but were sitting on potential goldmines of oil, why not use em and still look for alterbnative energy? sounds like a win/win to me and dont hand me this were running out of Oil line, we have heard this fline/excuse for decades and yet we continue to find larger shales of oil in and out of American soil.. cant be that many dead dinasours, could it? PS - All i say is lets do BOTH, its not that difficult imo

 

Because there is only so much money we're willing to invest. Some things take more initial investment with far greater and longer lasting benefits. Other things just avoid doing the first type for a few more years. And, fwiw, most companies don't drill more because the easy sources are already tapped. Almost all of the left over oil is far more expensive to get to and even more so to get to it in an environmental way. There's a reason even Exxon and BP are starting to invest in other technologies. It's simply expensive and hard to find oil right now. So much so it doesn't even make sense without huge subsidies. Why should the government pay for an industry that's not profitable?

[D-28]

WHY O WHY cant we drill in a safer/greener/enviromently matter AND STILL continue to search for alternative energy?


Not being a wise ass but i asked before and no 1 answered, i think we can also be more smart in our use and consumption of oil (conserve) but were sitting on potential goldmines of oil, why not use em and still look for alterbnative energy? sounds like a win/win to me



and dont hand me this were running out of Oil line, we have heard this fline/excuse for decades and yet we continue to find larger shales of oil in and out of American soil..



Oil Shale? Tar sands? BWaaHaHaHa!!!
Your talking about open pit mining, then the "material" needs to be separated, then "washed" with super-heated water. Mining equipment runs on diesel fuel, not shale. The water would be heated with natural gas, not shale. The ERoEI (energy returned over energy invested) is approx. 1:3.
That is a net LOSS of energy Mr. smarty pants. Not to mention the enormous waste of water and pollution of ground water.
When oil was discovered, the ERoEI was 20:1!!! It was close to the surface, on dry land, and came out of the ground under it's own pressure, and it was high quality (light sweet) that took little refining. We are now refining heavy sour crude that is in {censored}hole places controlled by people that were having sex with camels 80 years ago , not to mention the bottom of the ocean under thousands of feet of salt layer. It takes way more money and energy (oil) to get {censored}tier oil.
You know what bothers me the most? EVERYBODY talks about alternative fuel and NOBODY talks about alternative LIFESTYLES.
That will change very soon wether anybody likes it or not.
www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
www.dieoff.com
www.peakoil.com
www.theoildrum.com







:

[mynameistaken]

 

There needs to be a financial incentive and a market demand. Why is the Toyota Prius selling like crazy now verses when gas was $2.85? Tree huggers have wallets too. High gas prices will create or increase the demand for more fuel efficient vehicles.

 

edit: If we increase the supply (and lower prices) there is less incentive to seek alternative or more efficient ways to power our cars.

[thenakedarab]

Not being a wise ass but i asked before and no 1 answered, i think we can also be more smart in our use and consumption of oil (conserve) but were sitting on potential goldmines of oil, why not use em and still look for alterbnative energy? sounds like a win/win to me and dont hand me this were running out of Oil line, we have heard this fline/excuse for decades and yet we continue to find larger shales of oil in and out of American soil.. Oil Shale? Tar sands? BWaaHaHaHa!!! Your talking about open pit mining, then the "material" needs to be separated, then "washed" with super-heated water. Mining equipment runs on diesel fuel, not shale. The water would be heated with natural gas, not shale. The ERoEI (energy returned over energy invested) is approx. 1:3. That is a net LOSS of energy Mr. smarty pants. Not to mention the enormous waste of water and pollution of ground water. When oil was discovered, the ERoEI was 20:1!!! It was close to the surface, on dry land, and came out of the ground under it's own pressure, and it was high quality (light sweet) that took little refining. We are now refining heavy sour crude that is in {censored}hole places controlled by people that were having sex with camels 80 years ago , not to mention the bottom of the ocean under thousands of feet of salt layer. It takes way more money and energy (oil) to get {censored}tier oil. You know what bothers me the most? EVERYBODY talks about alternative fuel and NOBODY talks about alternative LIFESTYLES. That will change very soon wether anybody likes it or not. www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net www.dieoff.com www.peakoil.com www.theoildrum.com :

 

The second half of this post is so full of win it should be criminal.

 

The first, not so much so. I say leave it, and quit the cycle. We need to seriously mitigate our intrusiveness on the environment, or we will eat up our host like a cancer. Only in this case it is the host that will go on, and the cancer that will die off.

[Dolf]

I support getting drilled.

[D-28]

........and here's something else that pisses me off.
Everybody blames the oil companies for everything..... gas prices, the war in Iraq, Bush and Cheney, killing the electric car, blah, blah, blah.
And then the people that think there REAL SMART, say "we have plenty of oil, we need more refining capacity".
So which is it you {censored}ing morons? If oil companies control everything, why do you think they would let balding, pony-tailed, purse-carrying, "environmentalists" stop them from making new refineries for the last 30 years?
I'll tell you why! The oil companies have known for 50 years that their finite resource was going to decline at the turn of the century.
How convenient! Instead of telling the truth and ruining economies and scaring the {censored} out of everybody, they can blame it on the hippie-fags and everybody falls for it !
How did that taste?
Want more? Follow the money. Oil companies hardly spend {censored} on finding new sources because the entire planet has been mapped by satellites for new deposits 3 times over already, All the oil thats "easy' to get is gone and the deeper it is the poorer quality it is. So now they make their money by cannabalizing each other and buying out each others reserves and assets.
Funding for "alternative fuels"?? Oh god, {censored} me running, they spend just enough on that so they can mention it and it woudn't be a lie.
Have a nice life everybody.
www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
www.dieoff.com
www.peakoil.com
www.theoildrum.com

[gdwill2u]

hm. seems like a good time to look for ANOTHER source of fuel besides the old rut.. jesus.. it's only been 30+ years we've known this'd happen..

 

 

I should change my vote, I voted yes, but I think you are right.

[scud133]

I will have a nice life D-28.

 

I just wish I could have a nice life with low fuel costs, continued growth of the economy, and preservation/restoration of the environment.

[Toolsound]

My understanding of all this is a bit primative, but in my mind it boils down to:

1. We should've been planning for this scenario YEARS ago.
2. We didn't plan and so now we're desparately looking for a quick fix.
3. A quick fix will only perpetuate the underlying problem, which is a lack of alernative energy sources.
4. Drilling for oil in questionable places is a band-aid. Not a solution.

[Weathered]

My understanding of all this is a bit primative, but in my mind it boils down to: 1. We should've been planning for this scenario YEARS ago. 2. We didn't plan and so now we're desparately looking for a quick fix. 3. A quick fix will only perpetuate the underlying problem, which is a lack of alernative energy sources. 4. Drilling for oil in questionable places is a band-aid. Not a solution.

 

 

It seems like your understanding is pretty solid.

[Sex Panther]

There needs to be a financial incentive and a market demand. Why is the Toyota Prius selling like crazy now verses when gas was $2.85? Tree huggers have wallets too. High gas prices will create or increase the demand for more fuel efficient vehicles. edit: If we increase the supply (and lower prices) there is less incentive to seek alternative or more efficient ways to power our cars.

Nice sig.

[thenakedarab]

........and here's something else that pisses me off. Everybody blames the oil companies for everything..... gas prices, the war in Iraq, Bush and Cheney, killing the electric car, blah, blah, blah. And then the people that think there REAL SMART, say "we have plenty of oil, we need more refining capacity". So which is it you {censored}ing morons? If oil companies control everything, why do you think they would let balding, ponie-tailed, purse-carrying, "environmentalists" stop them from making new refineries for the last 30 years? I'll tell you why! The oil companies have known for 50 years that their finite resource was going to decline at the turn of the century. How convenient! Instead of telling the truth and ruining economies and scaring the {censored} out of everybody, they can blame it on the hippe-fags and everybody falls for it ! How did that taste? Want more? Follow the money. Oil companies hardly spend {censored} on finding new sources because the entire planet has been mapped by satellites for new deposits 3 times over. So now they make their money by cannabalizing each other and buying out each others reserves and assets. Funding for "alternative fuels"?? Oh god, {censored} me running, they spend just enough on that so they can mention it and it woudn't be a lie. Have a nice life everybody. www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net www.dieoff.com www.peakoil.com www.theoildrum.com

There's more than one half truth in there. Some is straight up. I'll ask you something though, are you signing up to let them build a new refinery across the street from you?

First and foremost, it's not the hippie fags stopping them, it's the companies themselves. They know that restricting refining capacity is the key to controlling supply. If all the refineries were updated, repaired, maintained, and brought up to near peak efficiency consumer prices would drop considerably, but so would their margin. The relationship is so incestuous it's crazy, it's very oligopolistic/cartelish.

That's not to say that the parent company would suffer significant financial loss in the end. I think with year after year of record profits and consumer pain in the rear view window that now is time for the scales to tip the other way a bit. I feel that significant but reasonable profits and mitigated consumer pain are a reasonable demand of the populace that has done much to suck it up and go with the status quo up till now.

So a few subsidiaries would fall from being a fairly consistent performers to being a bit of a dog in certain market turns. The American citizen has had to deal with far worse concerns due to the situations; making the hard decisions balancing increasing healthcare, and food costs, energy costs, and quality of life that are directly impacted by 40 yrs of poor energy policies; poisoned rivers, lands and thus foods; political entanglements and military clashes that have arisen from allowing policies centered around an increasingly dependent relationship with unstable factions and depots in regions of the world, the list goes on and on, all tied to sucking the last drop of black jism out of the head of this bitch.

They cycle needs to end, and end based on our will power and resolve as a society to make the right decisions all around for our country's posterity. Not only that, but for our own economic health we need to be on the bleeding edge of this technological paradigm change, not the ass end. If we continue looking at this in a lackadaisical manner it will cost us even more in the future. Do you truly want to bring manufacturing back to this country in a large scale and profitable way, this and massive investment in infrastructure is the only way. If we don't we will be beaten to the punch in the increasingly fast paced and competitive global markets.

[K-Bizzle]

I will have a nice life D-28. I just wish I could have a nice life with low fuel costs, continued growth of the economy, and preservation/restoration of the environment.

 

 

Ha thats what everyone wants right?

 

Cheap, reliable, and quality.

 

Learn it early my friend, 99% of the time you only get to have two of those things.

[D-28]

There's more than one half truth in there. Some is straight up. I'll ask you something though, are you signing up to let them build a new refinery across the street from you? First and foremost, it's not the hippie fags stopping them, it's the companies themselves. They know that restricting refining capacity is the key to controlling supply. If all the refineries were updated, repaired, maintained, and brought up to near peak efficiency consumer prices would drop considerably, but so would their margin. The relationship is so incestuous it's crazy, it's very oligopolistic/cartelish. That's not to say that the parent company would suffer significant financial loss in the end. I think with year after year of record profits and consumer pain in the rear view window that now is time for the scales to tip the other way a bit. I feel that significant but reasonable profits and mitigated consumer pain are a reasonable demand of the populace that has done much to suck it up and go with the status quo up till now. So a few subsidiaries would fall from being a fairly consistent performers to being a bit of a dog in certain market turns. The American citizen has had to deal with far worse concerns due to the situations; making the hard decisions balancing increasing healthcare, and food costs, energy costs, and quality of life that are directly impacted by 40 yrs of poor energy policies; poisoned rivers, lands and thus foods; political entanglements and military clashes that have arisen from allowing policies centered around an increasingly dependent relationship with unstable factions and depots in regions of the world, the list goes on and on, all tied to sucking the last drop of black jism out of the head of this bitch. They cycle needs to end, and end based on our will power and resolve as a society to make the right decisions all around for our country's posterity. Not only that, but for our own economic health we need to be on the bleeding edge of this technological paradigm change, not the ass end. If we continue looking at this in a lackadaisical manner it will cost us even more in the future. Do you truly want to bring manufacturing back to this country in a large scale and profitable way, this and massive investment in infrastructure is the only way. If we don't we will be beaten to the punch in the increasingly fast paced and competitive global markets.

I said oil companies use the "hippie-fags" for a convenient scapegoat, not that they are the cause and effect.
Anyway........
The answer is, there is no answer. We had the wake up call in the 70's, when the first oil shock happened, game over. Our way of life is going to change and it will be painful for all of us .....period.
Will there be some benefits to this? Absolutely.
But keep this in mind. About 2 hundred years ago , at the start of the industrial revolution, total world population was about 1 billion people and it had been that way for about a thousand years. This is the Earth's natural carrying capacity. It is now almost 7 BILLION, thanks to cheap oil and petro-farming. Do the math. There are too many people and the number will have to come down sooner or later, one way or another. And THAT my friend, is the ultimate truth and it ain't gonna' be pretty. Look around and it has already started. Throw in a Nuclear exchange or two or a global flu-pandemic that we are WAY overdue for and it's off to the races.
Notice I'm not even mentioning climate change... you get the picture?

[syscrusher]

Like no one is looking at the root causes here? Hell with more drilling. It isn't going to change a damn thing. How about holding people in charge responsible for once. They don't want alternative fuels, that would take from their pockets.

 

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/051908a.html

 

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/916086/

 

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/06/the-enron-looph.html

 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/congress-seeks.html

 

And their still dicking around with this BS after a year.

Not to mention the mortgage/credit crisis. Don't forget, these guys lobbied to change bankruptcy laws as well and are all behind Bush.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_bi_ge/mortgage_fraud;_ylt=ApTzha8LmON4fwtP822Wh0Gs0NUE

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_bi_ge/bear_stearns_investigation;_ylt=Avu3zFne3GkQQScw0G2aQkes0NUE

 

As long as they can keep on raping the people, their going to do it.

[Johnny'sGotTheBlues]

for new deposits 3 times over already, All the oil thats "easy' to get is gone and the deeper it is the poorer quality it is.

 

You really don't know {censored} about how oil is explored for do you?

 

No wait, that wasn't a question, let me re-punctuate...

 

You really don't know {censored} about how oil is explored for.

[kinggeoff]

Like no one is looking at the root causes here? Hell with more drilling. It isn't going to change a damn thing. How about holding people in charge responsible for once. They don't want alternative fuels, that would take from their pockets. http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/051908a.html http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/916086/ http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/06/the-enron-looph.html http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/congress-seeks.html And their still dicking around with this BS after a year. Not to mention the mortgage/credit crisis. Don't forget, these guys lobbied to change bankruptcy laws as well and are all behind Bush. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_bi_ge/mortgage_fraud;_ylt=ApTzha8LmON4fwtP822Wh0Gs0NUE http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_bi_ge/bear_stearns_investigation;_ylt=Avu3zFne3GkQQScw0G2aQkes0NUE As long as they can keep on raping the people, their going to do it.

 

 

That's teh bottom line. And they are some of the wealthiest organizations in the history of the world

[D-28]

You really don't know {censored} about how oil is explored for do you? No wait, that wasn't a question, let me re-punctuate... You really don't know {censored} about how oil is explored for.

 

 

It's called "SAR", Synthetic Arpeture Radar.

 

Now go wack off to some computer porn you ignorant asshole.

[Johnny'sGotTheBlues]

It's called "SAR", Synthetic Arpeture Radar. Now go wack off to some computer porn you ignorant asshole.

 

 

Go {censored} yourself with a barb wire fence post you stupid twerp.

 

Finding oil has been my career for 28 years. I'm a geophysicist.

 

Slink away now twat.

[zehn]

Go {censored} yourself with a barb wire fence post you stupid twerp. Finding oil has been my career for 28 years. I'm a geophysicist. Slink away now twat.

 

 

JOHNNYPWNT

 

BTW are you from Alaska too?

[kinggeoff]

[D-28]

Go {censored} yourself with a barb wire fence post you stupid twerp. Finding oil has been my career for 28 years. I'm a geophysicist. Slink away now twat.

 

 

A Geophysicist for 28 years? WOW!!!

So you...a professional man, call bull{censored} on me without explaining why I'm full of {censored}? I"m confused, 28 years experience and no mention of how oil companies REALLY explore for oil and where the oil is or how much is left?......nothing.

You gotta' love the internet, a place where people can pretend to be whatever they want.

[axslinger]

The never-ending wisdom of the left; "Hell no! It would take XX years to get any oil out of them".

Try this one; if the ban were lifted XX years ago, we wouldn't be in this position! Thats like saying, "I don't need to save for college, I won't even go to college for 10 years". Gee, maybe if we do something NOW we won't be in this position again in 10 years. There's a thought.

Yes, we need alternate energy, I'm all for that but the dumb{censored} liberals never point out that it would also take 10 years or more to get any meaningful benefit (nationally) from alternate sources. And I'm not talking about 1/10 of 1% of the population driving Hybrids...thats inconsequential. In order for any "alternate energy" sources to have any meaningful impact, it would have to be widespread, 20% or more...that's years away too but we don't dismiss it.

[potaetoes]

Why is the Toyota Prius selling like crazy now verses when gas was $2.85?

 

 

because toyota is building a lot more of them now. demand was super high even before "when gas was $2.85", which is why people often sat on waiting lists for up to a year and paid well over sticker price. supply is what significantly changed, not demand.

[kinggeoff]

The never-ending wisdom of the left; "Hell no! It would take XX years to get any oil out of them". Try this one; if the ban were lifted XX years ago, we wouldn't be in this position! Thats like saying, "I don't need to save for college, I won't even go to college for 10 years". Gee, maybe if we do something NOW we won't be in this position again in 10 years. There's a thought. Yes, we need alternate energy, I'm all for that but the dumb{censored} liberals never point out that it would also take 10 years or more to get any meaningful benefit (nationally) from alternate sources. And I'm not talking about 1/10 of 1% of the population driving Hybrids...thats inconsequential. In order for any "alternate energy" sources to have any meaningful impact, it would have to be widespread, 20% or more...that's years away too but we don't dismiss it.

If we did that, we would be in much much worse shape. We have to start somewhere. The problem is that the oil companies and car manufacturers work together. The end result is a sustainable profit at any cost.

The cost in this case is our wallets and environment. We've had working cars that run on water/hydrogen/ethanol/etc for decades. They're always "JUST AROUND THE CORNER!!" to keep the public complacent and dependent on oil.

There have been public tests of new fuel concepts met with an OVERWHELMING success, only to be ignored, the production models destroyed. ({censored}ING SHREDDED, even though the companies said they were going to recycle the parts to put in other cars in development)

see "General Motors EV1" released for a public demo in california. Most who leased the vehicle PLEADED with GM to buy the car at the end of the lease term. But all cars were reposessed and filmed (by the owners who followed the trucks after the repo'd the cars) them being shredded to pieces and utterly destroyed