Keep On Keepin' On

[SrMeowMeow]

Warning: I love this song, and wrote/recorded it in two hours. But I want brutal criticism. There are a couple very minor tweaks to the lyrics already that are not in the recording.

 

YouTube link to the (very rough one take demo) recording: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqc2xMgDznY&feature=related

 

Lyrics:

 

another streetlit corner

another crumpled dollar

I played it cool to stay awake

 

you stopped to take a picture

your smile a rare elixir

made me forget the changes

I thought I knew the song by heart

 

you took a new direction

left at the intersection

left me to founder in your wake

 

ships pass me every evening

small smiles, heavy meaning

is this a new beginning

or did it end before the start

 

it just goes to show

I gotta know

 

chorus:

so you touch me

and you tease me

keep on keepin' on

 

would you love me

would you leave me

keep on keepin' on

 

would you hurt me

would you free me

keep on keepin' on

 

now ev'ry night's eventful

each second heaven sent

will you return to see the crime?

 

this crush is heavy weather

storm's approaching, brace forever

red sky at every sunset

avenues full of lookalikes

 

it just goes to show

I gotta know

 

chorus

 

I don't regret a single thing

these moments feed me when I sing

requited love's a waste of time

 

who needs a steady rhythm

with high adventure in him

this street's the final jungle

these words machetes from the mic

 

it just goes to show

who wants to know the ending

 

chorus x2

[roman2]

Nice one, I really like the vocals on that one. The low sung lines very nicely built up to the higher parts (which sound awesome, imho ). I also like the chorus as it is. I don't like the prechorus-parts so much, though. They just make me wait for the chorus, especially after the second verse, where you're soloing a little. This might change though after you add some proper instrumentation. After all, you should stick to the idea, I'd like to hear a fully produced version of that song

[Lee Knight]

I really like the way you've turned the melody around in the verses. Cool. Great idea for a tune. A couple of things...

 

- Not crazy about the prechorus either. It doesn't really serve the purpose of furthering the song. It's more of a stall that a kick.

 

- It feels a bit long in the tooth by the time you get to the chorus. The prechorus further delays that much anticipated release. You hit the prechorus at 1:30. I'd consider dropping the prechorus and maybe even trimming some lines of the verses to get to the chorus quicker.

 

- The lyric, Keep On Keepin' On. It doesn't quite dovetail in meaning. Unless you consider something like:

 

so you touch me

and you tease me

(will you) keep on keepin' on

 

would you love me

would you leave me

(Or would you) keep on keepin' on

 

 

As it stands now, you telling her to keep on keepin' on. But... you could be asking to stop. Or at least asking her if she's just gonna Keep On Keepin' On. So I think you could tie in that title as a payoff for various lyric setups.

[rhino55]

Just commenting on lyrics here, but I'd change "ships" in the fourth stanza. I get that it was referencing "in your wake" in the previous line, but I think it takes away from the picture you've painted to that point.

[Matximus]

Brutal Criticism: Make it two minutes. Get rid of most everything except the When You Touch Me" stuff that starts at 1:50 or whatever.

 

That's the best part of the song by far - only part where it sounded like the singer wasn't doggy-paddling too fast to keep head above water, if that makes any sense. I also find it a god damn crime against songwriting whenever a good and worthy hook is buried... two minutes into a damn song.

 

The rest of the work for me had a single-minded chugaluganess - the beat, the words, the chordal harmony, the melody seemed to be all bopping up and down at same time and same direction - didn't leave impression of much musical interest.

 

The vamping is kinda rough after a while. More than kinda rough.

[rsadasiv]

 

Brutal Criticism: Make it two minutes. Get rid of most everything except the When You Touch Me" stuff that starts at 1:50 or whatever. That's the best part of the song by far - only part where it sounded like the singer wasn't doggy-paddling too fast to keep head above water, if that makes any sense. I also find it a god damn crime against songwriting whenever a good and worthy hook is buried... two minutes into a damn song. The rest of the work for me had a single-minded chugaluganess - the beat, the words, the chordal harmony, the melody seemed to be all bopping up and down at same time and same direction - didn't leave impression of much musical interest. The vamping is kinda rough after a while. More than kinda rough.

 

 

+1. I kind of like the spirit of the guitar vamp, but it could really use a little more attention to detail in the performance. There is a hook in there, in that ascending chord pattern under "When you touch me" but you need to get rid of a bunch of other stuff to make the hook more prominent. I would use that as the chorus and work on developing a different verse.

[LeonardScaper]

Yeah, well I love the prechorus. I think it makes the listener stop and say....'What?' And then the chorus comes in with that other vocal part (which I also like) and says....'That's what!'

 

It's a good tune that needs to be pared down into a great tune.

[dparr]

Too long.

 

It would make a great three minute song.

[SrMeowMeow]

Thanks for all the input!

 

Nice one, I really like the vocals on that one. The low sung lines very nicely built up to the higher parts (which sound awesome, imho ). I also like the chorus as it is. I don't like the prechorus-parts so much, though. They just make me wait for the chorus, especially after the second verse, where you're soloing a little. This might change though after you add some proper instrumentation. After all, you should stick to the idea, I'd like to hear a fully produced version of that song

 

So would I! I'll be working on it with my collaborator tonight.

 

Thanks again, everybody! The more the merrier!

[SrMeowMeow]

 

Too long. It would make a great three minute song.

 

 

What are the obvious cuts you'd make? The solo is too long and doesn't add anything, but I was just blocking out space for a potential instrumental break/solo. I don't know if that has a place in this song, though. Is two full verses to start the song too much? Cut the prechoruses? Just take off a verse/chorus?

[Lee Knight]

 

I don't really know what it means yet. The lyrics just sort of came out all at once. And I was dismayed to find out how common a title this is. So, you're right. It will probably get completely changed.

 

 

"I don't really know what it means yet."

 

And most of us don't when we're brainstorming ideas either. But sometimes something comes out and we think, "Hmmm, if I changed this it could this..." But I think the key is to really make it mean that. To write to it, as opposed to assigning some meaning that you have to explain to people. As I said, "keep on keepin' on" could mean she's walking by you without stopping as you're performing on the corner. Then... the old phrase, "keep on keepin' on" has new meaning.

 

And at that point, you don't want to change the name, cause you just twisted a cliche into new meaning. See what I'm saying? But you'd have to change a few small things to focus it toward that concept of her passing by without noticing you, or maybe seeing you but denying you.

 

I think there's something there.

[LCK]

I think shorter is the way to go. And I agree it's best to get to the hook sooner.

 

Something like this?

 

another streetlit corner

another crumpled dollar

I played it cool to stay awake

 

you stopped to take my picture

your smile a rare elixir

made me forget the changes

I thought I knew the song by heart

 

it just goes to show

I gotta know

 

chorus:

so you touch me

and you tease me

keep on keepin' on

 

would you love me

will you leave me

keep on keepin' on

 

would you hurt me

please deceive me

keep on keepin' on

 

you took a new direction

left at the intersection

left me to founder in your wake

 

ships pass me every evening

small smiles, heavy meaning

is this a new beginning

or did it end before the start

 

it just goes to show

I gotta know

 

chorus:

so you touch me

and you tease me

keep on keepin' on

 

would you love me

will you leave me

keep on keepin' on

 

would you hurt me

please deceive me

keep on keepin' on

 

solo

 

it just goes to show

who wants to know the ending

 

chorus:

so you touch me

and you tease me

keep on keepin' on

 

would you love me

will you leave me

keep on keepin' on

 

would you hurt me

please deceive me

keep on keepin' on

 

LCK

[Matximus]

Burying a hook in a song is like waiting until the third date to let a girl know you're rich. You want to bang the girl sooner rather than later. This is not a question. Of course you do. So pick her up in a god damn Ferrari.

 

My belief: Every song should be about trying to bang the listener by the end of the first date. Not at the end: By the end. In the restaurant coat room is good. In the car before going into the restaurant, even better. Leading with the hook is the equivalent of picking her up in a $100,000 Italian sports car.

[LCK]

 

Burying a hook in a song is like waiting until the third date to let a girl know you're rich. You want to bang the girl sooner rather than later. This is not a question. Of course you do.

 

 

I think that's a rather crass, superficial outlook. And the analogy doesn't hold true.

 

Just as there are lots of Ferrari-less guys who do quite well with women, there are lots and lots of hit songs where the hook doesn't come up until you're well into the tune. You could just as easily say that the payoff is much bigger, and more satisfying, if you hold back on the hook, engage in a little aural foreplay, so you can build up the tension before you spring the hook on the listener. Sometimes the real hook -- the thing that brings the listener back to the song over and over again -- can be the last line of a song.

 

That said, I agree with your main premise on this song, which is that the hook should come sooner. I think doing it after the second verse (which is what I suggested) will work just fine. Lenny's new tune starts with the hook, and that works well too. It's just a matter of what works best for each individual song.

 

LCK

[SrMeowMeow]

Burying a hook in a song is like waiting until the third date to let a girl know you're rich. You want to bang the girl sooner rather than later. This is not a question. Of course you do. So pick her up in a god damn Ferrari. My belief: Every song should be about trying to bang the listener by the end of the first date. Not at the end: By the end. In the restaurant coat room is good. In the car before going into the restaurant, even better. Leading with the hook is the equivalent of picking her up in a $100,000 Italian sports car.

 

I think we just have different philosophies.

[SrMeowMeow]

 

I think that's a rather crass, superficial outlook. And the analogy doesn't hold true. Just as there are lots of Ferrari-less guys who do quite well with women, there are lots and lots of hit songs where the hook doesn't come up until you're well into the tune. You could just as easily say that the payoff is much bigger, and more satisfying, if you hold back on the hook, engage in a little aural foreplay, so you can build up the tension before you spring the hook on the listener. Sometimes the real hook -- the thing that brings the listener back to the song over and over again -- can be the last line of a song. That said, I agree with your main premise on this song, which is that the hook should come sooner. I think doing it after the second verse (which is what I suggested) will work just fine. Lenny's new tune starts with the hook, and that works well too. It's just a matter of what works best for each individual song. LCK

 

 

The cuts you made above are very good. I'll try it out.

[rhino55]

 

I think that's a rather crass, superficial outlook. And the analogy doesn't hold true. Just as there are lots of Ferrari-less guys who do quite well with women, there are lots and lots of hit songs where the hook doesn't come up until you're well into the tune. You could just as easily say that the payoff is much bigger, and more satisfying, if you hold back on the hook, engage in a little aural foreplay, so you can build up the tension before you spring the hook on the listener. Sometimes the real hook -- the thing that brings the listener back to the song over and over again -- can be the last line of a song.

 

 

I agree that is crass and superficial, but if the end game is to "ear bang the listener," it can be just effective... variety being the spice and all. I think as song writers sometimes it is good to take the Ferrari out. Other times, subtleties like doing the dishes after dinner can start things moving in the right direction.

 

Depends on the song.

Depends on the listener.

[rsadasiv]

I would play that music sometimes when my girlfriend came over - usually after a little bit of you know what I'm talking about. Never before: Because she'd turn tail and walk out the door if I tried to play what she described as that weird boring noise music. Ambient music is getting girls to leave music.

 

He's quite the charmer.

[LCK]

 

Depends on the song. Depends on the listener.

 

 

Very well put. And it depends entirely on what your goal is, a sustained relationship or a quick meaningless orgasm.

 

"Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" starts with the hook. Does that make it a song you'd want to listen to over and over?

 

LCK

[Lee Knight]

 

... "ear bang the listener,"

 

 

Oww, that hurts!

[rhino55]

Very well put. And it depends entirely on what your goal is, a sustained relationship or a quick meaningless orgasm. "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" starts with the hook. Does that make it a song you'd want to listen to over and over? LCK

 

Way to continue the metaphor. I get exactly what you are saying and see where you are coming from, but I don't think any orgasm is meaningless.

 

I'm sure we could make a long list of wam bam thank you mam, lead with the hook songs.

 

Here are a few very different examples

 

Ain't No Sunshine - Bill Withers

Can't Buy Me Love - Beatles

Fa Fa Fa - Otis Redding

 

There is nothing wrong with getting noticed because of a Ferrari. If you do want a sustained relationship with your listener, then you're right, you need to bring some other stuff to the table too

[Lee Knight]

Don't warm up your engines. Start your story from the first sentence.

[LCK]

 

Don't warm up your engines. Start your story from the first sentence.

 

 

Good advice. Except when it isn't. To wit:

 

[video=youtube;A0av63J-OuQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0av63J-OuQ

 

This is a perfect example of warming up the engine before nailing the listener with the hook. There's 22 second warm-up, then a 4 second vamp (which, admittedly is kinda hooky), then the vocal starts. But the real hook doesn't come in until the song is 1/3 of the way over. And in my opinion, it's a perfectly-conceived, perfectly-written pop song.

 

"Stairway to Heaven" rambles on for 6 mins. before it starts to rock. And the tune is all the more satisfying b/c of the slow build up. Same goes for Ravel's "Bolero" and half of Roy Orbison's catalogue.

 

LCK

[Lee Knight]

 

Good advice. Except when it isn't. "Stairway to Heaven" rambles on for 6 mins. before it starts to rock.

 

 

"Good advice. Except when it isn't."

 

Absolutely!

 

 

"Stairway to Heaven" rambles on for 6 mins. before it starts to rock"

 

Yeah, but it begins, the very first bar, with one of the most iconic guitar parts ever written. I didn't say shoot your wad, I said "Start your story from the first sentence". If your story starts slow, it's risky but hey, sure. But if you're warming up your engines and not starting your story... and I think we've all mistakenly done that a time or 2, well... you're just wasting time and risking the big yawn.

 

It's a song, not a novel. And even novels have to kick your balls the first few sentences or they fail.

[Oswlek]

I chuckle whenever I read Max go on about how songs must be told by the 2 minute mark. Some of my favorite tunes ever written, by some of the greatest bands knock that number out of the water.

 

{censored}, I could listen to this tune all day (damn near takes that long anyway) and it doesn't even get started for nearly a full minute.

 

[video=youtube;1HxHwuiDPgk]

 

This band's catalog is littered with 6+ minute tunes that all work.

 

[video=youtube;nCYC5DXnGMA]

 

About the only rule is that you need to offer the listener some reason with the first 30 seconds or so to invest. And you need to keep laying seeds down if you plan on talking for a while.

 

From there it's all just personal choice.