Members Rear Naked Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 he has also racked up that 20-2 record by only using his grappling skills his stand-up sucks and he doesn't need any really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 With the exception of Aoki/Alvarez, none of the people you mentioned have ever "come up against" anyone else on that list either. Because a lot of people in that list have fought and defeated previous years top 10 fighters too. So that list so so good, they have ousted people at the top. Example: "How can Penn be the best grappler in MMA when he hasn't come up against Thompson, Edgar, Sanchez, Aoki, Florian, etc etc etc." The fact of the matter is Shaolin has fought and beat many better grapplers than the guys you listed in his competitive BJJ career... MMA grapplers = COMPLETELY different ball game. Esp with elbows in the mix. I didn't say Penn is the best MMA grappler. He was a completely dominant force on the world grappling circuit before he made the switch to MMA, and he's proven that his abilities are just as good in a ring/cage as on the mat by amassing a 20-2 record with wins over top guys like Hansen, Kawajiri, Ishida, Mitsuoka, etc. He was a perennial top 10 LW before being dropped for inactivity due to an eye injury, and now he's making his comeback. Refresh my memory on how long ago he subbed Hansen? Hansen had no ground game back then! And Kawa? This was 6 years ago!!! And he isnt even that good IMO. And please, don't even compare Ribeiro with Alberto Crane. Crane doesn't have 1/10th the accomplishments that Ribeiro does. Shaolin isn't just the best grappler at 155 in MMA, he's one of the best grapplers in the world at any weight, period. He was ranked the 9th greatest BJJ fighter of the 90's by GracieMag, despite only being 20 years old in 1999. Crane had a stellar MMA record, and top class BJJ game. Went into UFC, and got spanked. Much to my horror because I was saying the same things you are now saying about Shaolin. You can't claim he is CLEARLY the best MMA grappler until he has fought some top opponents. It was too premature to start making claims as big as you are because he is rusty and has a long comeback trail before we can start saying he has the best MMA grappling no questions asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucius Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 People always talk about Penn or Aoki as the best grapplers at 155 in MMA, but it's clearly Shaolin. Nice grappling, and great ref job!! Cheers, Lucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members freehandarson Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 Why is Joe Rogan always yelling?Why is every kick to the leg a "great" leg kick according to Joe Rogan? Many times they are NOT good leg kicks. haha, yeah he is. forever, forrest griffin will be known for his leg kick on rampage. i swear, it's like rogan brings that up even in fights not involving those two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Osmosis Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 It was too premature to start making claims as big as you are because he is rusty and has a long comeback trail before we can start saying he has the best MMA grappling no questions asked. Premature? It's not like we're talking about some flash in the pan, unproven guy here. He's fought for and held prestigious titles in both MMA and BJJ over a career over a decade long. He was a top-10 lightweight on every ranking for YEARS before his injury. The guy gets a serious eye injury and takes a year and half to recover, and every noob fan forgets he exists! PS--I didn't say he has "the best MMA grappling no questions asked", I said he's the best grappler in MMA at 155 lbs. Please tell me, who would you put in that spot if not him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Cohn Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 I wonder is shaolin could beat manhoef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 Shaolin has two wins over CURRENT top 10 competition...how many guys on your list can say that? Aoki and who else? That was 6 YEARS ago. They were not the force they are today. Tatsuya Kawajiri beat him as he progressed. Hansen was a low org fighter when they met. There's a difference between grappling in MMA and pure BJJ, but it's not like there's no carryover at all. Besides, Shaolin has proven his MMA grappling time and time again, it's not like he's some new, unknown quantity. He's been fighting and beating top guys for the better part of a decade and he's thrashed them all on the ground with almost no exceptions. His credentials are as impressive as anyones, whether you're talking about MMA grappling or BJJ competition.Agreed on most of that. No question. I don't know what elbows have to do with this, most organizations in the world don't allow elbows, and his upcoming fight with Aoki won't allow elbows...it's not going to make a difference.You have to MMA grapple with elbows in the mix to truly determine if you are well rounded. He subbed him in 2003, right after Hansen won the Shooto belt from Gomi. Hansen had no ground game back then? You shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about, it only sets you up for self-pwnage. These are Joachim's grappling accomplishments prior to his fight with Shaolin: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: 2nd place in European Cup (1999), 74 kg/163 lbs advanced division. 1st place in Finnish Open (1999), 75 kg/165 lb division 3rd place in European Cup (1999), 80 kg/176 lb division Did not place in BJJ Munidals (200) 2nd place in BJJ Open in London (2001), 73 kg/161 lbs 3rd place in BJJ Open in London (2001), absolute/open weight Submission grappling: 2nd place in Helsinki Submission Wrestling (1999), 65 kg/143 lb division. 1st place in Finnish Open (1999), 70 kg/154 lb division. 1st place in Finnish Open (2000), 70 kg/154 lb division. 1st place in Scandinavian Open (2000), 76 kg/167 lb division. 1st place in Bad Boy Cup (2000), 70 kg/154 lb division. 1st place in Finnish Open (2001), 79 kg/174 lb division. 1st place in Frank Shamrock Invitational (2001), 70 kg/154 lb division. 1st place in King of the Beach (2001), 78 kg/172 lb division. 1st place in Scandinavian Open (2002), 73 kg/161 lb division. Yeah, his ground game was TERRIBLE back then. I am talking about MMA grappling dude. The whole point right? And back then, he was NOT a good MMA grappler. In fact he got subbed in his second MMA fight. And he had only ONE submission win in his first 8 fights before once again losing to a sub via Vitor. Premature? It's not like we're talking about some flash in the pan, unproven guy here. He's fought for and held prestigious titles in both MMA and BJJ over a career over a decade long. He was a top-10 lightweight on every ranking for YEARS before his injury. The guy gets a serious eye injury and takes a year and half to recover, and every noob fan forgets he exists! Again, I didn't say that. Who is to say he is not going to do a Frank Mir and be fkn awful when he steps up competition? Mir took a LLLLLLLOOOOOONNNNGGGGGGG time to catch up where MMA went in a short time. PS--I didn't say he has "the best MMA grappling no questions asked", I said he's the best grappler in MMA at 155 lbs. You said he was clearly the best MMA grappler at 155. And I just think since he has had almost 2 years off, a record padded with cans, wins against good fighters 6 years ago (one since avenged) I honestly think MODERN top 10 fighters will have something to say in MMA grappling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 Please tell me, who would you put in that spot if not him? B.J. Penn Shinya Aoki Eddie Alvarez Gesias Calvancante Sean Sherk Kenny Florian Josh Thomson Satoru Kitaoka Look at that list. And tell me that right now, today, he would submit every single one of the above if it went to the ground with elbows, knees to the body, punches and everything else in the mix. After his low level competition compared to them. After his long absence. B.J. Penn has fought and beat the most dominant fighters of all time who could fight easily at middleweight. He took Machida to a dec ffs. Shaolin was a god a BJJ. But his "top 10" wins were 6 years ago when MMA was still evolving. Right now he has a sexy record but hardly any USA top dogs on the list. He is a BJJ legend and looks fkn mustard. But best at MMA grappling? I need more proof. I can't see him having his way on the ground in an MMA fight with fighters above because, newsflash, they train with world champion BJJ fighters in higher weight classes every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 DAMN! You British dudes are lucky! UFC 100 will be 9-hour live tv marathon free to all in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 I wonder is shaolin could beat manhoef. Shaolin would sub manhoef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Osmosis Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 I can't see him having his way on the ground in an MMA fight with fighters above because, newsflash, they train with world champion BJJ fighters in higher weight classes every week. Sooooo much fail. What world champion BJJ fighters do you speak of? I'll give you Penn (duh, he is one) and JZ because Marcelo Garcia recently joined ATT, but what about the other guys? Not a single one of them has a world champion at their camp, let alone a FOUR TIME world champion (there are only a handful of guys with those credentials in the entire world). And even if they did, does that automatically somehow mean they're as good as the people they train with? Did JZ's training with Marcelo Garcia help stop him from getting grapple{censored}ed by Aoki? Diego Sanchez has trained with De La Hoya; will we be seeing Sanchez vs Pacquiao any time soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thinkpad20 Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Cohn Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 Shaolin would sub manhoefThanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 all this Shaolin talk is giving me a boner btw- Shaolin and BJ are both Nova Uniao black belts. They were training partners. I guess we can't say for sure who is the better grappler, but Shaolin is certainly more accomplished in competition, both gi and nogi. He never won ADCC because he lost to Leozinho that time, but he has beaten Leo like 3 other times. Shaolin is just as good no gi as he is with the gi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sixthsense Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 you bjj guys argue too much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thinkpad20 Posted July 9, 2009 Members Share Posted July 9, 2009 Just for teh awesomesauce 0GKneOIyXyA That dude is a freak of nature 5:07 OWWWWW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 Dude I am freaking out! COME ON! Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members freehandarson Posted July 12, 2009 Members Share Posted July 12, 2009 brock lesnar has a lot of class. i'm glad i'm watching the WWF in a cage now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kenny Powers Posted July 12, 2009 Members Share Posted July 12, 2009 did I miss that talk about hendo almost winning via first degree murder?!?!? {censored}ING WAR HENDO! oh yeah, and I hope brock chokes on some jack links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Cohn Posted July 13, 2009 Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 Lulz, Brock is a D-Bag. Even Dana had to go backstage and say, WTF? Notice how awesomely whipped Brock was in the post fight press conference? With a Bud Light placed DIRECTLY in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anti-flag193 Posted July 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 So disappointed in Mir. Looks like he didn't follow his game plan and just let Brock lay on him. What a classless douche Brock is. What do you think is next for Lesnar? Dana says a fight with Fedor will happen. I'd like to see Brock v Carwin or even try to get Overeem in there. I was pumped to see Hendo win in such devastating fashion especially against that prick Bisping. Loved it. Bisping finally faces top competition (besides Evans) and falls apart, forgets his game plan and falls right into Hendo's game and his right hand. I was impressed that Alves was able to continuously get up after being taken down and also managed to avoid too much damage on the ground. Another dominating performance for GSP. What's next for him? Can't wait to see GSP v Anderson. Props to the Hammer for beating Bonnar. Shows what proper training will get you. Lolz at CB Dollaway not tapping and going unconscious. What a blockhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Cohn Posted July 13, 2009 Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 fedors management will never let a lesnar fight happen, not for a couple years anyways. That fight is a lose lose for fedor. Fedor wins, nothing is proved, he beat a wwf freakshow with 4 fights under his belt. Fedor loses and it's the same thing. Honestly, after barnett, I'm expecting retirement or a fight with randy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kenny Powers Posted July 13, 2009 Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 if this is true, I COMPLETEY agree with Fertittathat said...Dana says Fedor vs Brock is imminentoh yeah, anyone catch at the beginning of the GSP fight how he was "addressed" for that huge {censored}ing GLOB of vaseline on his shoulder? and even though I was rooting for sexyama, I will not comment on that... decision... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Osmosis Posted July 13, 2009 Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 and even though I was rooting for sexyama, I will not comment on that... decision... Absolutely nothing wrong with that decision...both the Fightmetric report and Compustrike stats support it. http://fightmetric.com/fights/Akiyama-Belcher.html http://www.compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_100/Akiyama-Belcher.HTM I think Rogan's biased commentary tends to influence people's perception of the action, either consciously or subconsciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jnurp Posted July 13, 2009 Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 if this is true, I COMPLETEY agree with Fertittathat said... Dana says Fedor vs Brock is imminentoh yeah, anyone catch at the beginning of the GSP fight how he was "addressed" for that huge {censored}ing GLOB of vaseline on his shoulder? and even though I was rooting for sexyama, I will not comment on that... decision... dude that was a close fight, i had akiyama winning the first and second rounds. It honestly could of went either way. I think his sexiness was nervous, when he loosens up and gets more comfortable i think he could be very dangerous to anybody not named anderson silva and damian maia. His judo is off the charts, any big lughead grappler like marquardt tries to put his paws on sexi, he is going to get thrown on his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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