Members PetersReviews Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 Do speakers lose frequency range over time? I ask the question because I use an old Carvin AG100 Acoustic amp with a 12" PS-12 speaker and a tweeter. I've gigged with this amp for at least 12 years and while it works well, I find that it doesn't have much clarity in the mid and treble range. It's a very dark sounding amp. I just played my acoustic through this and a new Ampeg bass amp with a 15" speaker and the Ampeg sounded crisp, clean and very articulate which I didn't expect.So now, I was thinking I could replace the speaker. I thought about a new Carvin PS-12 speaker but I came across the Eminence Beta-12LTA which is an extended range 12" that supposedly is great for acoustic guitars. This would be as easy as a mod gets but I'm wondering how much difference this will really make. I guess I'm just asking the question as I think over my options... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted November 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted November 28, 2009 I'd begin by checking the tweeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mackin Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 Speakers change over time, that's a fact. Like anything really, stuff gets old... However, about your amp, was it always dark sounding ? A speaker change will obviously change the sound but it will never fully compensate for an overall poor-sounding amp (this being said, I have no idea of the quality of your Carvin amp, I have no experience with these). The wise choice would be to get a new amp in this case... but hey, this is the DIY forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike42 Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I think Issac has the right idea. I have no idea about your amp or those speakers, but it's pretty easy to lose a tweeter on a 2 way system and not even realize it, unless you have some standard to compare to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Belva Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 While I agree with the bad tweeter theory, I also wonder if maybe your ears have grown up little by little. And now that amp that sounded wonderful 12 years ago sounds like crap. I have an event that highlights this. Back in the late 80's & early 90's I had this Peavey pacer amp that I thought was the {censored}! I ran across one in a pawn shop about a week ago. Took in my fave guitar, plugged in and it sounded like 2 pigs making piglets. I've grown & my tastes are more refined. Yes everything on this Pacer was in good working order including the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted November 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted November 28, 2009 Any changes in speaker frequency response would be gradual. Tweeter failure would likely be a quick change. I assume that you've noticed a change, and that the amp was not always dark sounding. Was the change fast, or slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PetersReviews Posted November 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I think the tweeter is one of the Motorola piezo tweeters so it never occurred to me that it might be bad but you might have a good point. The amp hasn't had much of that high sparkle in a long time. Maybe I should replace the tweeter and the 12" driver. I think this amp has always been a bit dark sounding but I didn't realize it until I compared it to many other acoustic and bass amps that seem to have so much more detail and definition. I'm pretty sure new speakers will help quite a bit since I've plugged in other cabinets and it sounds so much better. If I had the money, I'd buy a Fishman Loudbox but if I can fix it myself, I'd prefer that option. To Customtele, yes it's amazing how much our hearing grows and our preferences change. That's why I have a closet full of equipment I no longer use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I would think the caps are drying up in the amp before the speakers, but there are several way to test the speaker responce, though I'm not sure they are do-able unless you have the setups. In a shop I'd thest the speakers with an audio generator and DB meter. If you're into home recording its possible to pump pink noise into the amp, then place a reference mic in front of the amp and read the responce on a Frequency analizer on a computer. What you would be reading though isnt going to tell you much though unless you have another new amp that you can compare it to in an A/B test. Another test would be to pump test tones through the circuit and use a signal tracer amp to listen for signal degration. This can help identify bad caps or weak gain stages. Still some of the readings may be questionable because guitar amps are designed for hi fidelity. Next item can be the instrument itself has changed. Piezo elements can go bad over time and the guitar itself and strings may need a going over. Capacitors, guitars, and a persons ears do both age with time. It can be a combination of all. Lastly, the ampeg basically just kicked your amps butt. Ampegs are great and they often do. The Word itself, Amp-Peg comes from amping acoustic basses at the Pegs. They know how to build amps and I'd say they are twice as good as most amps because of their bass responce curve. Putting better speakers in the carvin wont get you there either. If the amp sounds like Butt, adding higher SPL speakers, will just make it sound like big butt, with a littel color change. So maybe its just time to shop for a new amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fred Buzz Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 Speakers change over time, that's a fact. Like anything really, stuff gets old...) I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I'm also not sure about speakers deteriorating over time. I have a pair of 30 year old Polk Audio model II hi fi speakers. I emailed their support department asking if anything should be replaced, due to age; drivers, crossovers, etc. Guy replied that the drivers should be fine, and the only thing he'd suggest checking is the internal connections to the speakers, maybe clean with contact cleaner. Now these are not PA or guitar speakers, either. But I have a 1965 Fender Super Reverb, original speakers and it sounds great (stellar actually). Probably a difficult question to answer; who's gonna measure a speaker's performance over 20+ years...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Belva Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 Another thought crossed my mind. If you have a woofer & tweeter you have a crossover of some sort. Also prone to faliure. If you replace either or both speakers I'd at least find a way to test the crossover or have it tested. If it's fried you could blow your brand new tweeter in about 1.32446 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 Are any of the pots noisy or scratchy? I'd try cleaning the pots and jacks before swapping speakers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted November 29, 2009 Moderators Share Posted November 29, 2009 Another thought crossed my mind. If you have a woofer & tweeter you have a crossover of some sort. Also prone to faliure. If you replace either or both speakers I'd at least find a way to test the crossover or have it tested. If it's fried you could blow your brand new tweeter in about 1.32446 seconds. Not necessarily. He said that the tweeter is piezoelectric. They are often used without any crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PetersReviews Posted November 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 Thanks for all the great suggestions! I think the best thing to do is compare it to another newer model to see if it sounds similar. I'll open it up later and swap the speaker out and test the tweeter later this week.This amp has been with me for so many years I want to see if I fix it up before I just buy something else. Thanks,Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Belva Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I forgot the piezo thang. OOOOOPS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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