Members kwakatak Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 I guess I was overzealous. The picture does not capture it well but the rosewood bridge split along the grain through the midpoint of all the pin holes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigby Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 that sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tiger roach Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Time to visit your local guitar doctor I'm afraid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Oh, sh*t - from everything ever written about changing strings - "only push the pins in hard enough to hold the ball against the bridgeplate" - but you know that. Is there any chance that it had something to do with the ebony pins? Different taper? Were they standing particularly tall out of the holes? How about the change from (I would assume) slotted plastic pins to unslotted ebony? Might give Jason a call immediately. It can be fixed and it is under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted May 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by Freeman Keller Oh, sh*t - from everything ever written about changing strings - "only push the pins in hard enough to hold the ball against the bridgeplate" - but you know that.Is there any chance that it had something to do with the ebony pins? Different taper? Were they standing particularly tall out of the holes? How about the change from (I would assume) slotted plastic pins to unslotted ebony? Might give Jason a call immediately. It can be fixed and it is under warranty. No, the Larrivee is fine; this is my old Tak that I just put the JLD on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by kwakatak No, the Larrivee is fine; this is my old Tak that I just put the JLD on. You gave me a real scare there, 'bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Hmmmmm...well, look on the bright side...all you have to do is: (A) remove the strings/pegs, (B) thin down some Super-glue, © fill in the gap created and then remove the "Bridge Doctor" (so that the excess glue can be wiped off before it sets) (D) once the glue has completely set (give it 24 hours) lightly buff the bridge w/ some fine guage steel wool to make it pretty again. At least it wasn't your new guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted May 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 I'm thinking this may be necessary instead: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Acoustic_guitar_bridges/1/Acoustic_Bridges/Pictures.html#details But obviously I'm not gonna do it myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted May 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 No, filling in the crack will only solve a symptom not the whole problem. I guess I know what needs to be done: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Structural/BridgePlateOverlay/plateover1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Just put the Tak away for a while and play the Larry. Don't do anything rash - like squirting super glue in there because you'll never get the bridge off then (it might be the right thing to do but lets think it thru first). Frank Ford has a good description on removing and replacing the bridge - it was done to my 12 string and other than a little discoloration on the top from the heat you can't tell it was done. A real critical part is positioning the new one - the compensation on your saddle tells me you are anal about things like that. It is also necessary to build some pretty good cauls to distribute the clamping forces and get a couple of really deep c-clamps. Do you think drilling the hole for the JLD could have contributed? Did you change pins or anything at the same time? Are your strings slotted (and ramped) or are the pins slotted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted May 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 No the hole for the mounting bar isn't involved, just the pin holes. The tail-end of the bridge was beginning to lift before I installed it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 OK, I'm trying to figure this out. When I look at the picture on the left, and assuming the the wood part of the JLD is tight against the bridgeplate, then tightening the compression rod should result in a counter clockwise moment pushing up under the saddle, and pulling down on the little column with the screw in it. If anything that should be closing the pin holes. It is possible that by closing them the pins fit a little tighter and when you put them back in you pushed too hard, splitting the bridge. That seems possible but unlikely. It is also possible that the part of the JLD under the saddle was not contacting the b/p - then tightening the compression rod would have pulled down the screw column, separating the pin holes and causing them to crack. If this was the case I wouldn't have expected the Doc to been very effective in flattening the top (you wouldn't have the nice rotational torque on the bridgeplate). What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by Freeman Keller Just put the Tak away for a while and play the Larry. Don't do anything rash - like squirting super glue in there because you'll never get the bridge off then (it might be the right thing to do but lets think it thru first). Frank Ford has a good description on removing and replacing the bridge - it was done to my 12 string and other than a little discoloration on the top from the heat you can't tell it was done. A real critical part is positioning the new one - the compensation on your saddle tells me you are anal about things like that. It is also necessary to build some pretty good cauls to distribute the clamping forces and get a couple of really deep c-clamps.Do you think drilling the hole for the JLD could have contributed? Did you change pins or anything at the same time? Are your strings slotted (and ramped) or are the pins slotted? Well, the reason I suggested that particular "fix" is because I doubt Brother Kwak wants to put all that much $$$ into the Tak, and this will fix the problem. Obviously, on a more valuable instrument, a new bridge and bridge plate would be the answer, but this is a modestly priced Tak, and while it very likely has great sentimental value, Kwak probably has to be practical, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 That sucks. Is it possible that the laminate sound board is beginning to seperate near the bridge? If it was me and the laminate sound board is still holding together, I would order one of those Stew Mac replacement bridges for $15.99 and install it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sasquatch51 Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Yeah...I think if it's not an expensive or particularly valuable instrument, I'd just get some Gorilla Glue down in the crack and stabilize it and play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 2, 2006 Members Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall Well, the reason I suggested that particular "fix" is because I doubt Brother Kwak wants to put all that much $$$ into the Tak, and this will fix the problem.Obviously, on a more valuable instrument, a new bridge and bridge plate would be the answer, but this is a modestly priced Tak, and while it very likely has great sentimental value, Kwak probably has to be practical, too! Terry, I didn't say NOT to do it - that might be a very good fix - but if he is at all thinking about a new bridge if he does get something like CA into the bridge to top interface he'll never get the old one off. CA is used for a lot of broken guitar fixes but frequently the bridge is not even put on with yellow glue, they will use white or hide so it can be removed. There have been a couple of threads lately where people have suggested squirting a little CA under a loose bridge - in my view that better fix it 'cause it is going to be permanent. Neil is in the enviable position right now that he doesn't need the Tak for his next gig - my suggestion was to put it away, take a deep breath and play the Larry. When I had the neck done on my 12 string Bryan Kimsey charged me $40 to pull the loose bridge and reglue it. Add the cost of a new blank from StewMac and it is not much more than what Kwak has in the JLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted May 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2006 True: I don't need the Tak for anything except for sentimental purposes but I hate that I could be careless enough to let something like this happen. If it's a relatively cheap fix to replace the bridge then I may go ahead and have it done though since I still have money left in my shoebox, only I'm concerned about the belly in the top coming back and being right where I started off. FWIW, I've been starting to enjoy the tone that the JLD gives the old tinny Tak. Just yesterday I was amazed at the apparant increase in sustain and the mids seemed to be stronger as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted May 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hmmm. I popped out the pins and took a good look at the area with a flashlight. The cracks are only maybe 1/16" deep. I also felt around underneath on the bridgeplate and it doesn't seem cracked anywhere, so it might just be a matter of steaming off the old bridge and putting a new one on. I could live with that and did some digging over at frets.com: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Bridges/ReglueBr/regluebr1.html I'd have to buy some tools like a clamp and a heating element, but who knows? Maybe some day down the road I'll have gained enough knowledge to try my hand at a kit? In the meantime I strung the Tak back up and have eyed the area closely. I'm feeling a little bit better now. Now for some fun on the Larrivee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sweb Posted May 3, 2006 Members Share Posted May 3, 2006 Judging from Mr. Keller's depiction of the bridge doctor you have, and the fact that the bridge aft side was lifted, I'd say the screw compression force cracked the bridge at the weakest point which is grain-wise across the pin holes. What to do...? Suggestion: The capillary action of thin superglue may wick down to the top and beyond. I would use a high viscosity superglue (slow cure) and as soon as it seeps into the crack I would set it with a mist of accelerator. If you know of a hobby store pick up the slow cure superglue ( 60 seconds cyanoacrylate or, "CA") and accelerator (a.k.a. "Kicker"). This will do what Terry was pointing out yet won't wick down and permanently bond the bridge. If you choose to try this first put the glue into the crack, relieve the screw pressure to allow the crack to close with the glue in it and then kick it with the accelerator. The crack may or may not close so you might want to try a dry run first by removing the screw to see if the crack closes up. If it does tighten up the screw to reveal the crack again and then go from there. If all goes well you will be left with a repaired bridge with a slight squeeze-out of cured glue that can be carefully removed with an emery board nail file and final buffing with 600 grit sandpaper (Walmart automotive section). Don't try wiping off the uncured glue. You'll just smear it all over and make a mess of things. The accelerator comes in a spray can and pump bottle. Get the pump bottle - it will give you more control. The accelerator won't damage the finish and can be wiped off with a paper towel. Edit: Accelerator cures the glue instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted May 3, 2006 Members Share Posted May 3, 2006 What if you fix the bridge like TAH was talking about, reset the JLD and leave it sit without strings for a while? I'd bet there was a real wierd number going on between the top, strings and JLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted May 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2006 I have to say I was scared there for a minute, but now that I've calmed down some I see that the crack is not very deep and was probably caused by the mounting crew pushing down on the thinner portion of the bridge. I'm guessing the pins holes just provided the point of least structural integrity though and a little extra pressure from the strings cause a crack in the top portion of the bridge. This whole glue in the crack plan certainly sounds like like the way to go but the whole superglue thing has me skeptical. I don't know why but I have images of a midget in a hardhat swinging from the underside of my guitar. I also posted this over at APM (because there are lots of luthiers over there) and over at the Larrive Forum because I know that resident tech and cave-dweller unclrob would chime in. Here's what he said to do: originally posted by unclrob at the Larrivee Forum This a chessy fix but it does keep things from getting worst.Force some wood glue into the crack and let it set up for 2-3 days.Everything will be fine. So today I'll be sure to test to see if the crack has opened up because of string tension. If so, then a little glue down the chute might do it. In the meantime, that'll give me a little more time to bond with the Larrivee. Sorry if you folks think I've been ignoring it, but since I'm also geting back into singing it has me wanting to keep my strummer on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted May 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Uh oh - I took a look out in the sun just before taking pics of my new Larrivee. The crack in the D-string pin hole goes all the way through the bridge. Not good! Time to steam that bridge off. D'ya think a plain old clothes iron'd do the trick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sweb Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Tin funnel sitting upside down on a boiling pot of water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.