K&K pickups, no volume and tone controls?

[Grayson73]

I was planning to buy an acoustic-electric with good built in pickups (i.e. Takamine-Cool Tube, Larrivee-LR Baggs Element or iMix), but many here have been steering me to buy an acoustic and add a pickup to it.

 

People are praising the K&K pickups, but there doesn't seem to be a volume control.

 

1. If I want a pickup that has volume control, what would you recommend?

 

2. Do people not need the other controls (bass, mid, treble, notch)? Does this mean that you rely on the sound guy?

 

I'm playing through a 6 channel mixer so I thought it would be better to control things on my end.

 

3. If I need #2, are there better pickups than the Takamine Cool Tube or LR Baggs Element (Larrivee 03) or LR Baggs iMix (Larrivee 05)? If not, I should probably go for these acoustic-electrics.

 

Grayson

[Hudman]

Many people claim that the K&K doesn't need a preamp. You can plog them straight in into the PA without feedback issues.

 

Others use a preamp to control the volume and tone prior to the PA.

[Grayson73]

I'd like to get the best sound plugging in directly from guitar to PA. I'd like to avoid a preamp if possible because I don't want to carry it along with extra cable and batteries around.

[rjoxyz]

I have a K&K in my Larrivee and it sounds good going straight into an amp. However, a pre-amp with EQ and volume controls is very helpful. K&K makes a "beltclip" preamp for about $90. Many others are also available.

[LiveMusic]

I've been wondering about that K&K, as well... no volume control. I dunno how that would work for me at live gigs. Seems I adjust volume on the guitar quite often from song to song. I do have an ART tube preamp, I suppose that could work. It has a volume control. Cost me only $40, works great for recordings, anyway.

[Terry Allan Hall]

I was planning to buy an acoustic-electric with good built in pickups (i.e. Takamine-Cool Tube, Larrivee-LR Baggs Element or iMix), but many here have been steering me to buy an acoustic and add a pickup to it. People are praising the K&K pickups, but there doesn't seem to be a volume control. 1. If I want a pickup that has volume control, what would you recommend? Well, you can have a volume control wired in very simply, but do you really need one? 2. Do people not need the other controls (bass, mid, treble, notch)? Does this mean that you rely on the sound guy? Not at all...how do you deal w/ volume and tone changes "unplugged"? Me, if I want to play softer, I simply don't hit the strings as hard...if I want a brighter sound, I play closer to the bridge and for a darker tone, I play closer to the end of the fingerboard. In 40 years of playing, 35 of them performing live, I've never used a volume control on my acoustics, even the few that came w/ one. I'm playing through a 6 channel mixer so I thought it would be better to control things on my end. Certainly agree...but let the "controls" be your hands and your brain! 3. If I need #2, are there better pickups than the Takamine Cool Tube or LR Baggs Element (Larrivee 03) or LR Baggs iMix (Larrivee 05)? If not, I should probably go for these acoustic-electrics. I'd go w/ the best acoustic you can afford, then add a passive P/U, then run it through a Baggs PADI...you can get a superb tone that way. The K&K are OK for low to medium volume gigs, but feedback at higher volume situations, whereas USTs are much more "feedback proof", so give a lot of thought to not just current gigs, but future gig plans, as well. Grayson

 

Hope this helps!

[Grayson73]

Thanks for the info. Is a built-in pickup like the K&K better than a soundhole pickup like Baggs M-1 active? Also, what are some good USTs?

[EvilTwin]

I've seen a few guys use volume pedals live, but I'm with Terry. It's all in the hands.

 

For UST's, I honestly think the Dean Markley "Sweet Spot" is great. Easy to install, lots of output, cheap. Give it Little Brother's clay shim trick, and you're good to go.

[pipedwho]

I apologize in advance for the long post.

 

I was planning to buy an acoustic-electric with good built in pickups (i.e. Takamine-Cool Tube, Larrivee-LR Baggs Element or iMix), but many here have been steering me to buy an acoustic and add a pickup to it. People are praising the K&K pickups, but there doesn't seem to be a volume control.

In my experience having a volume control on the guitar is almost a hindrance. Unless you're standing right in front of the FOH monitor, it's too hard to know how well you're doing in the mix. And accidentally bumping it means you probably now have even less idea.

 

Every time the guitarist plays with the volume, the FOH engineer has to fix it at the board. Emergency adjustments (ie. way too soft/loud in the mix, or the guitar is starting to feed back) can easily be done at the board, or with a foot mute switch if that's the functionality that you're after. If you play on the verge of feedback, it may be of use, but even then, it doesn't take much more effort if you're standing next to your external processor/preamp's controls anyway.

 

Guitar based volume control might work for a solo instrumental act, but IMO volume adjustments by the musicians themselves during the gig are overrated. I've seen enough gigs where the guitarist is constantly stuffing around with eq/volume and it seemed more like a nervous fixation than anything else. Especially considering the tiny amount of change that was being made could have easily been achieved with playing dynamics, ie. the hands.

 

BTW, I say all the above, because for years I used to play around with the volume control on the guitar and found that the best results were had by leaving it alone. This was most notable when playing at church with up to 10 other singers/musicians, especially considering there was never anyone riding faders during the services.

 

1. If I want a pickup that has volume control, what would you recommend?

Most pickups themselves don't have inbuilt volume controls. Some like the LR Baggs M1 active do, but the rest rely on a separate internal or external preamp. The Cooltube CTP1 is a preamp and can be used with any pickup, and does a great job if you want to play with EQ/volume. All the big guys have functionally equivalent preamps that give you volume and basic EQ, this includes LR Baggs, Fishman, etc. And all the middle to top of range ones will do what you want.

 

2. Do people not need the other controls (bass, mid, treble, notch)? Does this mean that you rely on the sound guy?

Having some kind of EQ is mandatory for an acoustic. But, this can easily be done externally with something like a PADI, Zoom A2, or other type of EQ device. The sound guy's job is to fit you into the mix and keep you in your place, but it's your job to make yourself happy with the tone of your guitar.

 

If your guitar starts feeding back, most sound guys will just turn down your channel. In some rare cases where the sound guy is super-duper good, he might slightly dip the problem frequency on the board. But, this depends on the type of mixer being used and the skill of the operator. Too much/wide 'notching' at the board will kill your tone, so my advice is to get any feedback under control with your own gear. This way you can be happy with your tone and the sound guy only need worry about the mix.

 

I'm playing through a 6 channel mixer so I thought it would be better to control things on my end. 3. If I need #2, are there better pickups than the Takamine Cool Tube or LR Baggs Element (Larrivee 03) or LR Baggs iMix (Larrivee 05)? If not, I should probably go for these acoustic-electrics.

I've never played a Larrivee, so I can't comment on those. But, the Takamines have great UST pickups, and their preamps (both the CTP1 and the CT4B) are excellent quality and sound great. The Baggs Element and Imix are equally good and the result really depends on the rest of the guitar. The Baggs M1 is a great soundhole pickup, and can be adjusted to sound great. IMO, the best sounding pickups are the UST or magnetic soundhole pickups blended with an onboard microphone.

 

One guy that I played with had a Sunshine magnetic and a mini-in-guitar-microphone brought out on a stereo jack. He'd plug it into a dual tube-based preamp and separately EQ and combine the two. That combo had a fantastic sound. In fact, his guitar sounded better plugged in than most guitars sound acoustically! I found the Takamine Cooltube with a mini-mic on the secondary input wasn't far behind, but the magic of Sunshine/mic combo was really in the stereo out and separate EQing.

 

For convenience and feedback resistance I've since gone with the Takamine Cooltube and Triax combo, and am very happy. I've heard equally good results from the Fishman Rare-earth Blend, and surprisingly, from a crappy Fishman UST something-or-other through a Mama Bear.

[RainsongDR1000]

The Baggs Element Active is EXACTLY what you are looking for...

Probably the best undersaddle out there except for maybe the D-tar Wavelength and Timberline or the Highlander and it's only $100 and way easier to install than a Fishman Matrix.

 

http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/systems_element.shtml

[Grayson73]

Thanks for the lengthy post!

 

So I were to get the K&K western mini and plug directly into the PA, couldn't the EQ on the mixer be used to tailor the sound, rather than having an EQ in the guitar itself or in a separate preamp (i.e. Baggs DI)?

 

Part of me wants to get the best sound, but part of me wants the convenience of plugging the guitar directly into the mixer. Therefore, I'm looking for either onboard barndoor electronics, soundhole pickup (active I assume), or something like the K&K Western Mini which runs hot enough to plug directly into a mixer.

 

Sorry for all of the questions, but I want to make sure that I'm happy with my decision since it's going to cost me

[Grayson73]

 

The Baggs Element Active is EXACTLY what you are looking for... Probably the best undersaddle out there except for maybe the D-tar Wavelength and Timberline or the Highlander and it's only $100 and way easier to install than a Fishman Matrix. http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/systems_element.shtml

 

 

If I decide to go with Larrivee, would the sound quality of adding this to a D-03 be equivalent to the D-03E which comes with the Element onboard?

[sdelsolray]

 

Thanks for the info. Is a built-in pickup like the K&K better than a soundhole pickup like Baggs M-1 active? Also, what are some good USTs?

 

 

No one can answer your "what is better" question, except yourself. Good USTs include the PUTW I/O, D-TAR Wavelength and LR Baggs Element (there are others).

 

A good thing to do is study this subject enough so that you can make a (more or less) fully informed decision before you buy anything. There are countless folks on thsi and other forums who buy on a whim, sell, buy again, over and over, and still are not satisfied with what they have. By spending, say, 10 hours of focused internet research and a few hours of hands-on, you can get what will work best for you within your budget (well, your budget will probably grow a bit, but so what). And you won't have to sell it and buy something else.

 

Here's an excellent place to start:

 

Pickup Comparisons

[RainsongDR1000]

 

If I decide to go with Larrivee, would the sound quality of adding this to a D-03 be equivalent to the D-03E which comes with the Element onboard?

 

 

I would image it would be exactly the same unless Baggs taylors the preamp especially for Larivee like they do with RainSongs. What's the price difference between the two?

[RainsongDR1000]

 

If I decide to go with Larrivee, would the sound quality of adding this to a D-03 be equivalent to the D-03E which comes with the Element onboard?

 

 

 

Sorry, I just read the D-03 comes with the Element onboard NOTCH system.

It looks like the newer design than my onboard since it comes with a midrange slider with and sweepable mid knob like the PADI(Sweet!). If you are thinking of the D-03 anyway and there is not a drastic difference, I may opt for the onboard since u said u wanted plug and play. Having the volume, tone control, phase and notch filter will be quite handy. In fact it looks like it has most everything that the PADI has except for adjustable depth notch and an XLR out (and effects loops). The Element active would probably sound the same as the onboard with all the controls set flat. My ELement Onboard is a VERY hot pickup system, you will not need any additional gain. In fact, I usually run my volume slider at about half just so I have some latitude at the AURA and mixer.

[LiveMusic]

Wow, pipedwho and others have sure made significant posts!

 

I found this page about the Takamine Cool Tube preamp. CLICK on Audio Demo to hear John Jorgenson demo the preamp. It sounds great. Apparently, you can buy this preamp and put it in a gutiar? I didn't know that. I also cannot find a source... I only found a listing for a UK store. Anyone know if you can buy this preamp alone?

 

I tell ya... wow, this is confusing! Like so many things. Sheesh. But I'll admit, a sweet sound makes playing live gigs so enjoyable. You can get into the music better when you sound great.

 

The only thing I don't like about the Cool Tube is it uses four AA batteries, says they last 24 hours. That's only a few gigs.