Acoustics $1k-ish and under: help me not get screwed, please!

[aaron313]

EDIT: After trying out and enjoying many guitars in the $2-2.5k range, and then considering making the jump to a higher price bracket, I ended my suffering yesterday. I bought a Martin 00-15, which turns out to be pretty sweet. Made in USA, solid wood, unique looks, plays nicely... all in all, I am happy, and that's all I care about. (And being fiscally responsible for the first time in a while feels good, too.)

 

Hi guys,

 

I have always played electrics. Always. Never liked acoustics (wasn't part of my agenda as a budding blues lead player). I owned a Mexican Strat for seven+ years until I just bought a Custom Shop job. I know that it's a great guitar because I know how Strats should sound. Not to mention how much the sound is a function of the amplifier, which is something else I am decent at judging.

 

I recently became a headphone audiophile, which helped me train my ears. I suspect that I might be able to identify a piece of garbage acoustic, but I have no real experience in differentiating the good $1k acoustics from the overpriced ones. Price is a placebo to the inexperienced, after all.

 

Now, let's discuss my actual experience with acoustics: almost nil. I have played my friend's Taylor mini acoustic, and felt it was a nice, playable, spry guitar. But it's certainly not "high-end." I suspect (or know!) that there are acoustics out there that cost under $1k, yet are better than some $5k pieces. This is based on my experience with expensive audio equipment.

 

So what it boils down to is: what are my best $1k and under bets? What are some audible flaws to look for, and how to I parse out the genuinely good advice of salesmen from the lies. I can identify good electric gear within seconds, but I am humble when it comes to acoustics.

 

Teach me!

 

I want to go into the store well armed for the sales war (they know I like to drop thousands on gear at the drop of a hat) that will ensue. I don't want to spend $2k on something I won't actually use, so we're going mid-fi on this one.

 

BIG EDIT: I'm actually going much bigger now, so we're looking at $1k to $3k.

 

Thanks.

 

-Aaron

[kwakatak]

Larriv

[rickoshea]

for that sort of money you have one helluva lot of guitars to choose from. I firmly believe that people can advise you to get a Martin/Taylor/Gibson/Epiphone masterbilt etc etc but what is important is what sounds good to you. Remember that you aren't ( usually ) plugged so you don't have an amp pointed somewhere near you to hear yourself play. When I had that sort of money to spend I asked my luthier to play several guitars, each in several styles while I sat in front of him, eyes closed and listened. Believe me you'll know what you like when you do this.
Of course play a load of them yourself and a lot will depend on what you like. Big booming bass and rounded sound ... a Martin, defined highs and mids with less low end ... a Taylor. You'll soon begin to hear and know what you personally like, and if you truly like and enjoy a particular guitar what it costs and who makes it is completely unimportant cause you'll play more and be more satisfied.
For that money you're looking ( mostly ) at solid wood acoustics, so there's little to say about solid re laminate. The choice of woods influences tone ... mahogany back and sides ( to me ) is a touch more full, less defined, than rosewood but again - its personal preference. Plus there are more woods to choose from - cedar, maple etc, all with their own characteristics.
One more thing if you haven't played a lot of acoustic. Fretting/barreing will be more trying than on a leccy so ... vitally ... find a good luthier and get your guitar properly set up. You'll find it both much easier to play and immensely more satisfying.

oh yeah .... playing blues on a plugged acoustic sounds simply awesome by the way

You mentioned $2K - if it were me I'd be having a Martin D-35 but then I'm biased as hell cause I love mine more than life itself

[aaron313]

Great responses already, and I truly appreciate it.

 

I currently am a pick guy, but I want to change that to a certain degree. Fingerpicking is stunning when well executed, and if I were extend that to an electric, then my versatility would truly go to the next level. One other thing is hybrid picking, which I think sounds brilliant, as you have the primary, picked note, and the supplementary picked notes (unless you have strong skills and can equalize the strength but still soften the higher notes with the finger effect) And I think that my amps could make a decent acoustic sound stunning.

 

Here's thing, though. I am not talented enough a fingerpicker to bring out the qualities of the acoustics in a store (across the width of the fretboard, that is). I might just need a person to play for me, but they would have to keep things stripped, down as salesmen are not often wont to do.

 

One thing to mention is that I am not at all a basshead, so the Taylors are intriguing me more by the minute. The Breedlove also looks like it would be amenable to my style, and is priced fairly. The again, a complementary guitar is not bad, and my Strat does have a fat low end.

 

It all comes down to how I can become the best blues player I can be.

[Gary Palmer]

"There's a theory that, if someone went into a shop to choose between a Martin or a Taylor and that person was going to play for thirty seconds, they'd buy the Taylor. If they were going to play for an hour, they'd buy the Martin." - Taken from article in "Guitarist" magazine Aug 2008

IMHO the above is very true - to some extent - but stands for the majority of guitar buying decisions and not just the Taylor:Martin comparison. Precisely the same could be said in reverse, but Taylor don't tend to be as tonally complex as Martin. The reason I quoted the above is that thoroughly testing out and compairing instruments - side by side - is the best way for one to make decisions he/she can live with. If there's any element of doubt walk away and make your decision once you're 150% certain.

So much depends upon the qualities an individual wants from a guitar, but possibly the best way to enter into decision making is to forget prior impressions or theory and base decisions solely upon tonality and feel. Also Having someone play the guitar for you will provide a better idea of whether or not it's acoustic output suits your own taste.

Acoustic guitarists seldom hear the true tone of their own guitar until they listen to recordings or have someone else play it for them.

[aaron313]

 

"There's a theory that, if someone went into a shop to choose between a Martin or a Taylor and that person was going to play for thirty seconds, they'd buy the Taylor. If they were going to play for an hour, they'd buy the Martin." - Taken from article in "Guitarist" magazine Aug 2008 IMHO the above is very true - to some extent - but stands for the majority of guitar buying decisions and not just the Taylor:Martin comparison. Precisely the same could be said in reverse, but Taylor don't tend to be as tonally complex as Martin. The reason I quoted the above is that thoroughly testing out and compairing instruments - side by side - is the best way for one to make decisions he/she can live with. If there's any element of doubt walk away and make your decision once you're 150% certain. So much depends upon the qualities an individual wants from a guitar, but possibly the best way to enter into decision making is to forget prior impressions or theory and base decisions solely upon tonality and feel. Also Having someone play the guitar for you will provide a better idea of whether or not it's acoustic output suits your own taste. Acoustic guitarists seldom hear the true tone of their own guitar until they listen to recordings or have someone else play it for them.

 

 

I can relate this to an experience I had in the past several days.

 

Having extra cash, I decided to get another electric guitar. I played a pricey Les Paul Custom SG, and plugged it into a Fender Deluxe Reverb (one of the kings of clean tone), and played until I was convinced the sound was for me. The guys at GC cut me a ridiculous deal on the instrument, and I happily took it home. However, last night I realized that the extra pickup made it difficult to play with a pick (let alone fingers!) I thought about it for a while, until I was able to diagnose the problem of why I left the store with the wrong guitar in the first place. It was the amp! I promptly (this morning) returned to the store, ditched the guitar, and purchased to Deluxe. Now I have two amps (Marshall Vintage Modern 2266c being the second); one for each of my homes (school and permanent), and one electric guitar. Much better! Plus, I have money for an acoustic. Even better!

 

Anyway, I must now restrain myself in this new pursuit. It is difficult to do so, but it is about time I learned self-denial.

[bobc]

"There's a theory that, if someone went into a shop to choose between a Martin or a Taylor and that person was going to play for thirty seconds, they'd buy the Taylor. If they were going to play for an hour, they'd buy the Martin." - Taken from article in "Guitarist" magazine Aug 2008

And if they where going to play for more than an hour they would choose the Takamine EF341SC...

[bobc]

I've owned Taylor, Martin, Takamine, Ovation, Tacoma, Yamaha, Breedlove, Fender.

For the past 3 years I have been on a "find the perfect acoustic guitar" quest. I always find something that I don't like about every one of them and then trade it for the next one. Most of the time I loose money in the deal, but getting the sound I like is more important than the money to me.

A few weeks ago, I traded a Taylor GS5e ($2,399.00) for a Takamine EF341SC ($1,149.00) just about straight up. I got a hundred dollar condensor mic as part of the trade too.

I have had this Takamine for about 3 weeks now, and have yet to find anything I don't like about it. I use headphones alot and that is usually when I start finding things that I don't like about the sound within the first few days or so, but this Takamine just sounds great.

Plus... it looks cool...

[Cripes]

"There's a theory that, if someone went into a shop to choose between a Martin or a Taylor and that person was going to play for thirty seconds, they'd buy the Taylor. If they were going to play for an hour, they'd buy the Martin." - Taken from article in "Guitarist" magazine Aug 2008 IMHO the above is very true - to some extent - but stands for the majority of guitar buying decisions and not just the Taylor:Martin comparison. Precisely the same could be said in reverse, but Taylor don't tend to be as tonally complex as Martin. The reason I quoted the above is that thoroughly testing out and compairing instruments - side by side - is the best way for one to make decisions he/she can live with. If there's any element of doubt walk away and make your decision once you're 150% certain. So much depends upon the qualities an individual wants from a guitar, but possibly the best way to enter into decision making is to forget prior impressions or theory and base decisions solely upon tonality and feel. Also Having someone play the guitar for you will provide a better idea of whether or not it's acoustic output suits your own taste. Acoustic guitarists seldom hear the true tone of their own guitar until they listen to recordings or have someone else play it for them.

 

 

LOL. Very true.

 

Your best bet is to play everything you've read/heard about as decent choices for the money and narrow the field on your own. Chances are you'll come back here with those choices and get a whole host of varying opinions for (valid) personal/subjective reasons. I could throw out a couple brands but I stand the chance of missing the mark (yours) by a mile.

[Gary Palmer]

And if they where going to play for more than an hour they would choose the Takamine EF341SC...

And I'll pit my Takamine TAN45C's superb tonality against your EF341SC's superb tonality.

I think it's all subjective to each individual's taste, so there's no "right" or "best" instrument......... Just the instrument that sings out to you as a player, listener and individual.

[bobc]

And I'll pit my Takamine TAN45C's superb tonality against your EF341SC's superb tonality. I think it's all subjective to each individual's taste, so there's no "right" or "best" instrument......... Just the instrument that sings out to you as a player, listener and individual.

I know Gary. I'm just messing with you man...


aaron313

You realy just have to go out and play a bunch till you find the one that sings to you.

Make sure you play each one both plugged and unplugged.

[aaron313]

Dude, if it sounds weak unplugged... that's game over. I'm gonna drive the guitar store folks insane. Oh well.

[totamus]

"There's a theory that, if someone went into a shop to choose between a Martin or a Taylor and that person was going to play for thirty seconds, they'd buy the Taylor. If they were going to play for an hour, they'd buy the Martin." - Taken from article in "Guitarist" magazine Aug 2008

 

 

I have actually seen this very thing several times - the result in most cases was a purchase tha was later regretted. Good post.

 

Kwak offered a very good list. I would add one more to that list: Crafter. Well built, good playability.

 

Since you don't know much about guitars, a little tutorial:

 

There are different body styles with Dreadnoughts being the most popular. There are different tone woods, with Spruce top and rosewood back/sides being the most popular. Scale length affects the playability of a guitar (a shorter scale is easier to fret, a longer scale has better volume/projection). 25.4" is the most popular, and is the standard. Some guitars have a shorter scale usually 24.75"), and they are very often used for fingerpicking styles.

 

People pay extra for "solid wood" guitars as they sound better. The convention is that if the tonewood description does not specifically say "solid" then they are laminate (plywood). SOme market to try and mislead ("real wood"). Remember - if the specific word "solid" is not used, it is laminate. You want a solid wood top as a minimum. The top is where most of the tone comes from, with a solid back offering a small improvement and the sides offering a tiny improvement (if any)

 

The neck profile is the shape and thickness of the neck. Each manufacturer has its own neck profile and you will find that you will develop a strong preference for a certain profile.

 

Nut width is the width of the neck at the point where they pass over the nut (which is that little white plastic looking piece where the headstock meets the neck). Nut widths vary from 1 9/16 to 2". The "standard" is 1 11/16".

 

Nut and saddle (the saddle is similar to the nut, but at the other end of the guitar, it is held in place by the bridge) material should be bone or tusq. NOT plastic. There are other materials used (fossilized Walrus Ivory, brass, ivory) but most use bone or tusq. Bone is the preffered material with tusq being a close second.

 

The "standard" acoustic guitar would be a spruce/rosewood dreadnought with tusq/bone saddle/nut, a 25.4" scale and a 1 11/16" nut width. This is the guitar you will probably want to buy, based upon what is the most popular among all players.

 

Martin, Taylor and Gibson have been the big three for quite some time. Martin has generally been the number one choice for guitarists (excluding the uber-high end custom shops) for generations. Taylor has made quite a name for itself as an alternative to Martin. Taylors are generally thought of as having a stronger response to the treble strings. Martins are known for their deep tone. Gibson appears to be more about marketing and brand building than building guitars and is third in the group. It seems to me (as an observation/opinion) that Taylors are waning in popularity in the last year or so.

 

There is a fine import guitar that Kwak mentions that is thought of as being a inexpensive alternative to Martin - Blueridge. There is another import thought of as being a good alternate to Taylor - Crafter. The Epiphone masterbilt line is generally a good replacement for Gibson. The rest of the guitars he mentions are along the lines of a Martin.

 

All of his recommendations are spot on, and are fine guitars. It would really be difficult to pick one brand as better than the others on his list.

 

You should play as many as you can and choose the one you like best.

 

One final thing, there is an old trick some guitar stores use to "trick" newbies. They will tune the guitar on display to a lower pitch than standard. This makes the guitar sound deeper than others and makes you think it is better than it really is. You should buy a tuner straight off and have it with you so you can check.

[C70man]

Martin has a $999 models.
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/MARTIN_D16GT_GUITAR_WITH_CASE_&_FREE.html
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/MARTIN_00016GT_GUITAR_WITH_CASE_&_FREE.html

[Simon76]

The standard by which all acoustic guitars are judged is the venerable Martin D28. Just look at the relative lack of variety in pickguards. 90% of all acoustic guitars have a D28 wannabe pickguard. They run $1500 used and may suit your taste and needs.

[kwakatak]

 

Great responses already, and I truly appreciate it. I currently am a pick guy, but I want to change that to a certain degree. Fingerpicking is stunning when well executed, and if I were extend that to an electric, then my versatility would truly go to the next level. One other thing is hybrid picking, which I think sounds brilliant, as you have the primary, picked note, and the supplementary picked notes (unless you have strong skills and can equalize the strength but still soften the higher notes with the finger effect) And I think that my amps could make a decent acoustic sound stunning. Here's thing, though. I am not talented enough a fingerpicker to bring out the qualities of the acoustics in a store (across the width of the fretboard, that is). I might just need a person to play for me, but they would have to keep things stripped, down as salesmen are not often wont to do. One thing to mention is that I am not at all a basshead, so the Taylors are intriguing me more by the minute. The Breedlove also looks like it would be amenable to my style, and is priced fairly. The again, a complementary guitar is not bad, and my Strat does have a fat low end. It all comes down to how I can become the best blues player I can be.

 

 

OK, that helps refine it a bit. Consider a grand auditorium size.

 

Taylor GA3 (or used 314)

Larriv

[OldGuitarPlayer]

The Martin 15 series is very good. I think a D-15 all hog can be bought for $999 or less. Taylor (314 series) Takamine, Simon & Patrick and Epiphone Masterbilt lines are also excellent instruments.

The Tayor 100 series is pretty good too. For the last year I have played a Taylor 114 grand auditorium and I really like it. It's comfortable to play. It has really good volume for fingerstyle and strumming or single note picking. It records really nicely. It's actually just a little bit smaller than a dreadstyle guitar. I think it's a well balanced sounding guitar. I think the electric version can be had new for $649.

[Blamalam]

Grab six (or seven or eight) guitars that you're interested in, and find a quiet room. Have the store employees show you to a spot, if necessary. Sit down in a chair facing the corner of the room, and play. Strum, fingerpick, goof off, do whatever. You'll get a decent representation of the guitar's sound that way, as the sound waves will bounce out of the corner back to your ears.

 

The second-best method (IMO, of course) is to have someone else play while you listen. I think that a lot of a guitar's tone comes from the fingers (ack!); to be more accurate, I think a lot of the tone comes from *how* the guitar is played--strummed hard vs. gently, etc. If you have someone else play for you, you'll hear how the guitar sounds for them, not necessarily you.

 

Good luck--this is the fun part!

[Luigi]

I bought an all mahogany Martin 6 years ago. It has "matured" into one of the best sounding acoustics I've ever heard. A real dream.

[Sangemon]

Martin has a $999 models. http://www.musiciansbuy.com/MARTIN_D16GT_GUITAR_WITH_CASE_&_FREE.html http://www.musiciansbuy.com/MARTIN_00016GT_GUITAR_WITH_CASE_&_FREE.html

+1

Either of these would be an excellent choice. The D-16GT is a dreadnought, and the 000-16GT is a smaller bodied guitar with a narrower waist. The GT stands for Gloss Top, and this would indicate a satin finish on the back and sides.

The dread will have a louder deeper tone designed to compete with banjos and fiddles. The 000 will be more balanced string to string and is designed more for fingerstyle playing and vocal accompaniment.

You should also consider the 15 Series Martins. The difference between the Martin 15 and 16 series that the 16 is spruce over rosewood and the 15s are all mahogany. Mahogany has a woodier, more midrange tone than spruce and many prefer it.

Both the 15 and 16 Series Martins would be an outstanding choice in your price range.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

I love that D-16GT I have not tried one. I have seen older used ones for like $700. I saw one on the net and it was real nice looking. I have a really beat up 1997 Martin DM/w a Fishman Matrix pickup. It needs a better nut and saddle but it sounds really nice (very deep) even though it looks pretty beatup. A great strummer. I bought it used for $400.

[moctzal]

Larriv

[CastorRJ1]

Larrivee & Breedlove are a couple alternatives to the "leaders" of the industry. Breedlove tends to sound a little like Taylor while the Larrivee has a sound completely of its own.

[moctzal]

Most people actually say that Larrivee lands inbetween Martin and Taylor, guitars that both sound traditional and modern.

[Tony Burns]

My personal favorite in the under 1000 price range is the Yamaha L series 16 models ( handmade in Japan )-they make a decent dread, and a mini jumbo--- all solid wood with a nice sound .