Members R56 Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hi all I am new to guitar and this forum, starting to learn the guitar! can anyone tell me the difference between a solid spruce top and a spruce top guitar? I see there is a price difference but not sure if theres a big sound difference. looking at the EG340C and EG340SC from Takamine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delphinius Hume Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Go for the solid wood. Much better tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhancox Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Without the mention of "solid" one would assume it's a laminate, though still made of spruce. From a marketing standpoint, you figure a manufacturer would use the word "solid" if it really was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar_stringer Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Solid Spruce is just that, solid. Everything else is multi-ply (plywood). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kimona Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Go for the solid wood. Much better tone. Not always as simple as that. Some laminates make solid tops sound lame. Plus, solid tops generally require more care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Welcome to the forum! I was right where you are now just shy of a year ago. And I am continually amazed by how much I've learned by consistent practice, a good teacher, and reading as much as I can about my instrument here, in books, and on other forums. A "solid spruce top" is a solid spruce top. A "spruce top" is plywood. Go with a solid top, if nothing else. Don't be disappointed with your first guitar. Here are a couple of recommendations: Yamaha FG700 Series (FG700S, FG720S, etc) Seagull S6 If you want to go a step higher, an Epiphone Masterbilt AJ500 would be a good choice, in either mahogany or rosewood. Get thee to Guitar Center and try and play a few of these guitars. If you don't feel confident to play yourself, you can ask the salesperson to play them for you. Don't be shy about doing that, they should be glad to help you out. Try those guitars, and others that others here may recommend, and pick one that sounds good to you. And remember, it's not a race, and have fun.:thu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 I'd always get a solid top, back and sides on an acoustic, but until you've been playing for at least a couple of years the wood isn't going to be the weak link and you may not be able to tell the difference. Once you've gotten the hang of it and can coax every bit of goodness out of a given guitar I think you'll be happy that you got a solid wood guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar_stringer Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Not always as simple as that. Some laminates make solid tops sound lame. Plus, solid tops generally require more care. In a properly built guitar, this is utter nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members babablowfish Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 In a properly built guitar, this is utter nonsense. No, that is not utter nonsense. We have had folks here who have sworn that their laminate-top Yamahas were solid tops because laminate could not sound that good. Now I am not saying that laminates are always or even often better sounding than solid tops, but sometimes they are. I know a guy who has a Martin D-35 that sounds just awful. My all-laminate Yamaha FG-340 sounds way better. Then again, I know another guy whose D-35 is one of the very best sounding guitars I have ever heard. Anyway, there are some really great sounding laminates out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar_stringer Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 I said "properly built guitars". I've been building guitars for over 35 years, i know utter nonsense when I hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 I've been building guitars for over 35 years, i know utter nonsense when I hear it.Amen brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 You guys aren't gonna hijack this guys 1st thread, are you?? Never mind those knuckleheads, go listen to some guitars. Some will sound good to you, and some won't. Pick the one that sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Opa John Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hi all I am new to guitar and this forum, starting to learn the guitar! can anyone tell me the difference between a solid spruce top and a spruce top guitar? I see there is a price difference but not sure if theres a big sound difference. looking at the EG340C and EG340SC from Takamine. I'll tell ya the truth, R56. I bought a Fender (go ahead and laugh if you want to) F-65 27 years ago and was told by the sheister salesman at the guitar store that it had a solid spruce top and laminated rosewood back and sides. I had no reason to not believe the guy due to the amazing sound this thing had (and still has today, BTW). It was only recently, about six months ago, that I learned that it's an ALL LAMINATED guitar. And, ya know what, it didn't change the sound of it one bit. It had been checked out on several occasions by people who are supposed to be able to tell the difference who couldn't tell me if the top was solid or laminated. Anyway....I still own it and intend to keep it. All I'm saying is that when someone says ALL laminated top guitars sound like crap.....they're just sorely misinformed. However, you want to buy a new guitar to learn on. How cheap does it have to be? You can get a brand new solid top FG-700s Yamaha for $200......and it really doesn't get any better than that. Later on, if you decide to stick with it, you can always buy a higher priced guitar. And you may just decide to keep the Yamaha anyway....for years and years....... All laminated guitars DO have a couple of distinct advantages over solid guitars in that they don't seem to be affected as much by humidity and temperature changes. And, it's very rare when a laminated guitar gets a crack in it....anywhere. And, of course, there's the cost issue...laminates are typically less expensive to purchase. So, there are pros and cons to consider. Personally, I still love my old Fender lammie......and back in 1981 it cost more than a new FG-700s costs today. Go figure. But, it's built like a canon and sounds off like one too. It's the one I take to my bluegrass jam session every Saturday. It sounds off with the best of 'em. A lot of people will talk about how solid wood guitars "open up" over the years. Others will say this is a crock. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I've owned all solid wood guitars over the years and I don't think I've noticed anything that would resemble "opening up". All of mine have always sounded good to me. Good setup + good strings = good guitar. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Many laminates outperform "solid" tops. I have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hi all I am new to guitar and this forum, starting to learn the guitar! can anyone tell me the difference between a solid spruce top and a spruce top guitar? I see there is a price difference but not sure if theres a big sound difference. looking at the EG340C and EG340SC from Takamine. First, welcome to HCAG. Second, to bring this back on topic, most people feel that solid tops are more desirable for several reasons (which I'll get to in a minute). Usually when it doe not say "solid" the implication is that the top is a laminate, lets say "plywood". That allows the builder to us a nicer looking piece of wood on the outside, but to laminate it will maybe slightly lesser quality on the inside. Many player feel that the top is the most important part of the guitar, and if possible a good piece of solid wood is desirable. Solid spruce is the ideal engineering material, it is light, very strong, fairly homogeneous, fairly pretty and can be worked to achieve the tone a builder is seeking. It also has the wonderful character that as it ages, the tone usually improves. For these reasons, various spruces have been the top wood of choice for hundreds of years. Laminated woods are usually found on less expensive guitar. They can be pretty and some actually sound remarkably good. I happen to be one of those folks that Baba talks about, my first guitar was a very old Yamaha - I new the back was laminated and didn't care, but it sounded so darned good I couldn't believe the top wasn't solid until I got down and really looked carefully. My old "plywood cheapie" is an amazing sounding guitar. Last comment, sort of aside, it is interesting to me as a guitar builder and engineer that laminates are coming back in some very high end guitars. There is a lot of experimenting in the classical world with guitar with three piece tops - two very thin pieces of spruce with nomex (yup, the cloth) laminated in between. Strong, light, pretty and amazing sound. Last comment is that a sold wood guitar does require very slightly more care, particularly wrt humidity than a laminated one, but it is not unreasonable. I would always choose solid tops if I could, but I would also let my ears guide me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members R56 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 thanks for the answers! that really helps I guess I will go for something cheaper without the tuner and amp, my friend said I don't really need it for learning as a first guitar. I tried the fg700s and fg730s at a local store yesterday, both feels good! the 730 has a better look to me (better cosmetic finish?) From wat I read is rose wood vs nato. I think I will pick up one of those this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TN.Frank Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Many laminates outperform "solid" tops. I have one. The Alvarez RD8 that I had was a laminate top and sounded almost as good as my Yamaha solid top. Laminates are built different today(the actually laminate, not the guitar) with new epoxies and processes used to make the plywood. Martin's HPL(High Pressure Laminate) is one example. With the Martin name on the line I really don't think they'd use a laminate if it didn't get somekind of decent sound. Like has been said, try a few guitars and see which ones you like. If it's laminate then so be it but if it's solid that's good too. Get what you can afford and what sounds good to YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 I've played some awesome sounding laminate spruce top guitars. In my opinion the sound is usually a bit lacking in high end... but very powerful and strong like a mahogany topped guitar. Some obvious advantages to a lam top acoustic (besides price) is that they don't crack or damage as easily and don't change with humidty as easily. The sound is also more stable over time. I have a friend in Jamaica who works in the ghettos of Kingston and I assembled an all plywood guitar for her because of the climate and her situation. BTW it's starting to become fashionable for high end luthiers to "double top" their acoustics...which is basically a type of plywood top. I've never played one but it's becoming known: $4,100 for a plywood top guitar? http://cgi.ebay.com/DOUBLE-TOP-African-BLACKWOOD-Concert-classical-guitar_W0QQitemZ290292804514 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rjoxyz Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Despite the controversy, I think it is fair to say that ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, you can expect a solid spruce top to be more resonant and "open sounding" than the equivalent laminate. This is of course a generalization, but I believe a reasonable one. The solid top should also improve with age as it "opens up" to a degree greater than laminate. I have a super cheap all mahogany laminate that sounds great and comparable to most solid topped guitars in terms of its resonance. On the other hand, my own experience (including owning a couple all laminate Yamahas) is that most laminate guitars TEND to sound a little more compressesed and "nasally" in comparison to solid topped guitars. Again--all generalizations, but you have to start with some point of reference, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Lammie or solid, play what sounds best to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phil_harmonic Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Man, I've had it wrong all this time. I shoulda gotten a guitar with a laminate top because it woulda blown away my crummy solid topped 914CE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members revans513 Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 I am going to express a different take on this. I would suggest that you play as many guitars as you can and think about picking the one that is easiest to play. It is very easy to be put off from learning the guitar by playing one that is hard to play. You can get picky about sound later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 I've played some awesome sounding laminate spruce top guitars. In my opinion the sound is usually a bit lacking in high end... but very powerful and strong like a mahogany topped guitar. Some obvious advantages to a lam top acoustic (besides price) is that they don't crack or damage as easily and don't change with humidty as easily. The sound is also more stable over time. I have a friend in Jamaica who works in the ghettos of Kingston and I assembled an all plywood guitar for her because of the climate and her situation. BTW it's starting to become fashionable for high end luthiers to "double top" their acoustics...which is basically a type of plywood top. I've never played one but it's becoming known: $4,100 for a plywood top guitar? I'm totally in favour of using multiple layers of wood for a top if there's a specific design reason for doing it and the woods used in the laminate are high quality. I've heard a guitar with that honeycomb laminate and it sounded astounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Man, I've had it wrong all this time. I shoulda gotten a guitar with a laminate top because it woulda blown away my crummy solid topped 914CE Yep, perhaps you should have, but all that's been said is that not all solid tops are equal, whilst precisely the same can also be said of laminates. --------- Double-tops and double-backs typically involve the use of two outer timber veneers applied to an inner ground of nomex. Not plywood, unless you replace the inner layer of nomex with a timber veneer and certainly not a cheap process in terms of labour or quality when done correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 The way I look at it, every moment that I get to play guitar is precious. So I want to make each one as satisfying as possible. If I can afford to have a top luthier build an incredibly resonant solid wood guitar then that's what I'm going to do. I know not everyone can do that, so there are cheaper alternatives that are also great guitars. I just don't get the fascination with comparing them to the high end stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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