How to tame the treble of an acoustic guitar??

[Misha]

Yesterday, a new member (camp6578) pm'ed me with a question about my S&P Woodland, mini-jumbo, cedar, CW, B-band A3T...

 

He says he has the same guitar but his sounds too trebly. Mine seems just fine, at least to my taste!I told him that what's too trebly for him could very well be my cup of tea, though, and it's all a question of preference.

 

His question made me curious, though: what could someone do to tame the high frequencies on a guitar???

 

I told him to show it to a luthier and ask for a setup. I know that different strings could help, I don't know which strings would be better suited though, etc.

 

Now I'm asking you the question! So, ???????

 

[LiFeStArTs@40]

Elixer Poly's should mellow it right down.

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Yesterday, a new member (camp6578) pm'ed me with a question about my S&P Woodland, mini-jumbo, cedar, CW, B-band A3T... He says he has the same guitar but his sounds too trebly. Mine seems just fine, at least to my taste!I told him that what's too trebly for him could very well be my cup of tea, though, and it's all a question of preference. His question made me curious, though: what could someone do to tame the high frequencies on a guitar??? I told him to show it to a luthier and ask for a setup. I know that different strings could help, I don't know which strings would be better suited though, etc. Now I'm asking you the question! So, ???????

 

My 1st reaction would be to bless the acoustic with a set of f a t flat-wounds (several brands make acoustic flat wounds for a mellow jazzier tone)

[Flatline]

My advice is to keep trying different strings until you get the sound you like. My breedlove sounds best with 80/20 strings even though it came from the factory with phosphor bronze strings. My Silver Creek D-170 sounds best with phosphor bronze strings.

[Misha]

camp6578 has never posted yet. He sent me a private message, last night. He'll probably join the conversation since it's of interest for him. He's the one who needs to tame the highs on his guitar!

 

I think he's a young student. He must be still at school, right now.

 

Keep posting your suggestions! It's always good to know those things!

 

Maybe a bone saddle would help him. I guess it would make the highs crisper but it would probably affect the low frequencies as well as the mids ???

 

I would aslo try a set of ebony bridge pins but... that is a very controversial subject here... At least, ebony bridge pins would look better than plastic bridge pins. So. even if it doesn't do nothing for the sound, it will cosmetically improve the guitar and it's cheap!

[Freeman Keller]

Misha, is the problem too much treble, not enough bass, too "bright" (whatever that term means) or not "mellow" (ditto)? Is it a matter of imbalance across the string, are the unwound strings not loud enough? If he plays, say the G string, at the 12th fret does it sound "too trebley" or is it just the E and B?

 

As you know, once a long time ago I posted clips of both different strings and different pins - those could help him try to hear the differences. I've never done a comparison test of saddles (for two reasons, it would be a huge hassle and I would not include a couple of popular materials), but you should be able to find out what others think they hear (I will say that going from Tusq to bone in my 314 I could hear no difference).

 

Since the String and Pin Test clips are long gone, I will tell you what I think I heard - to my ear the wound strings in an 80/20 set are more "bright" (lets say "trebly") than the wound strings in a PB set. The unwound were exactly the same. I also feel that coatings dampen the sound of the wound strings slightly (remember that unwound are never coated altho they might be anodized). If you want to brighten the bass, use 80/20.

 

On my D18, ebony pins seemed to deaden all of the strings pretty uniformly - I felt that they took some of the sparkle off the guitar. That made an already bass heavy guitar almost boomy. Brass seemed to brighten everything up. Plastic and bone were pretty similar, thats what I have chosen for my guitars.

 

Never have played your particular guitars, I can't comment, but the cedar topped Seagulls that I have played seemed mellow without a huge bass presence - frankly, however I don't have any idea how they were strung - but I think a lot is the wood, size and bracing.

 

Last comment - if your friend doesn't care about playing "in tune" have him down tune one or two semi tones. For two he will probably have to bump up a string guage, but he could try D# and see if it is promising.

 

(Everything I say is my opinion, others hear very different things)

[LeonardScaper]

I have recently put a set of ebony bridge pins on my 1933 Kalamazoo (thank you, Freeman:wave:) and it made a noticeable difference in the tone as that old girl gets pretty outspoken.

 

In general, I like that trebly tone. I may look into a set of flatwounds, though....just to see.

[riffmeister]

try nylon strings.

[gull12]

+1 for ebony pins. Also, try tuning down a full step - sometimes that helps. Whatever it takes, good luck!

[Misha]

try nylon strings.

 

lol

 

Here's one for you:

[video=youtube;vpmXk7yV5X8]

 

I didn't know him but I'm sure you did...

 

[Misha]

I think I'm gonna try a set of flatwound strings myself on one of my acoustic guitars just to try to get that nice mellow jazzy tone!

 

My own S&P sounds pretty good to me. I may still order a bone saddle from Bob Colosi just to see how it gets! I'd also like darker bridge pins because I think they look better be it ebony or bone...

 

Well, I'm not in a hurry to make any change on the new guitar, I'm still on a cloud with it! (Better be on a cloud, this week, in Montreal, anyway... because it's been raining all day long under those and it should be like this all week long...)

 

(Now, I'm going to go play it a bit before I go to sleep.)

 

Cheers!

[Samilyn]

When one of my gits sounds too bright, I use....

 

Ebony pins (or rosewood ones);

Lighter string gauge;

Phos bronze strings.

 

 

 

It's all subjective, but somehow I see another bridge-pin war in the making????

[bfloyd6969]

According to Bob Colosi's site, his Elephant Ivory saddles are known to lessen the high end. However, regular bone still may do the task as the guitar is coming stock with the TUSQ saddle. I always find TUSQ saddles to have a hint of harshness to them - at least the ones I have played that is. If regular bone doesn't do the trick, perhaps the elephant ivory may be the ticket.

[Misha]

When one of my gits sounds too bright, I use.... Ebony pins (or rosewood ones); Lighter string gauge; Phos bronze strings. It's all subjective, but somehow I see another bridge-pin war in the making????

[Misha]

 

According to Bob Colosi's site, his Elephant Ivory saddles are known to lessen the high end. However, regular bone still may do the task as the guitar is coming stock with the TUSQ saddle. I always find TUSQ saddles to have a hint of harshness to them - at least the ones I have played that is. If regular bone doesn't do the trick, perhaps the elephant ivory may be the ticket.

 

 

At first I had only seen the price for elephant bridge pins... Ouch!! $$$

 

A saddle is less expensive!

[Steadfastly]

When one of my gits sounds too bright, I use.... Ebony pins (or rosewood ones); Lighter string gauge; Phos bronze strings. It's all subjective, but somehow I see another bridge-pin war in the making????

 

Samilyn: I always thought lighter strings would increase the treble. Am I wrong here?

[Stackabones]

A lot of high-falutin high-end recs here, so I'll go with something simple: change picks or go all fingers.

[bfloyd6969]

 

A lot of high-falutin high-end recs here, so I'll go with something simple: change picks or go all fingers.

 

 

Good call!! Plain 'ole celluloid is my pick of choice for mellowing things out.

[katopp]

Or just wait a few days. New strings always sound too trebly for me. I like it when they deaden a bit.

[andy thompson]

Funny ol world, my main dissatisfaction with my cedar/ cherry S@P S6 was not enough treble.

[JT Foote]

Simplest way to tame trebles and add warmth/bass. Medium gauge nickel strings and a thick pick. And as an added benefit, you'll get better playability and unusually long string life. If doing this worked for a Collings, going this route may very well be the solution to your problem. It's not something many people would immediately think of doing, but believe me, once you get used to the fact that nickel strings need about a week to stretch and settle down, the tone is where it's at, brother. I prefer John Pearse Pure Nickel. A really great string. Add in a thicker kind of pick, and work on your right hand technique, and you might be amazed at what your guitar can sound like.

 

... JT

[Misha]

Even if I started this thread to help someone else, to date, I think I'll need a 250$ budget to buy different kind of strings, saddles and bridge pins!

 

And different picks are a good idea. I have a lot of picks and I change them to find the sound I want when I switch to another guitar, however, I completely forgot to tell camp6578, I didn't think of it at all!

[Freeman Keller]

Even if I started this thread to help someone else, to date, I think I'll need a 250$ budget to buy different kind of strings, saddles and bridge pins! And different picks are a good idea. I have a lot of picks and I change them to find the sound I want when I switch to another guitar, however, I completely forgot to tell camp6578, I didn't think of it at all!

 

Strings are cheap. Buy two sets - uncoated 80/20's and uncoated PB's in the same gauge (recommend the same manufacturer). Five bucks each. Play one set for a while, then change them. If your ears aren't good enough, record each one - use the same pick, mic, recorder settings, yadda yadda. Now try a set of coated strings in the composition that you like - Elixers, DR Extended, EXP, GHS, Alcemy, etc - the main thing is to see if you feel that the coating changes the sound. Coated strings are more expensive - maybe $15, so now you are to $25 in your experiment. You can also try other strings - certainly nickle wound and I surprised someone didn't suggest silk and steels - in each case record and compare.

 

As long as you don't get into exotic materials (all the ivories) then bridge pins really aren't that expensive - a nice set of bone or some sort of woodies will be $25 or less. You can also ask me to e-mail you the clips of my tests - that would be free (but remember that you get what you pay for LOL).

 

Saddles are another $10 to 25, I use exclusively bone and really can't tell much difference with synthetics like Tusq. Picks are cheap as long as you stay away from endangered species - I don't use picks so for me its a matter of letting my nails grow (or not).

 

Do each step one at a time - figure out which string YOU like the best, try pins if you are so inclined, then maybe bone it. Record each, go back and forth with the recordings, let your ears guide you. Since you are interested in difference between the bass and treble strings, record each string open and picked in a chord. With the graphical feature of Audacity you can look at the intensity and sustain of each note (and Gitnoob says you can even do a FFT to see its frequency spectrum) - that should tell you if a given setup has more bass or treble.

 

Total cost - somewhere between ten and fifty bucks.

[masterbuilt]

Silk & Steel. :b

[baldbloke]

 

Silk & Steel. :b

 

 

Interesting. I've seen that remedy for overly bright guitars mentioned before. So I tried a set on my Hog tanglewood. Got a fairly heavy gauge as I heard they felt a bit light. It didn't tame the brightness much, to my ears, but it did a little bit. It is the first time I've ever used silk and steel though so don't know how they will bed in after time. I like the sound of the Martin silk and steels. But the feel of them? Eeoow!. It's like a limp handshake. Too soft for me.