Manual Phasor like Thumb on tape

[Walters9515]

I was listening to some classic rocks and listening the the phasing and flanging . I notice my guitar pedals or plugs the LFO is cycling but its always the same up and down cycling. Placing the thumb on the tape didn't really cycle up and down it did alot more it went " In and out" "dry and wet" "slowing down the pitch"

and other "cross over points" how do i do this with a regular guitar pedal phaser or flanger?

 

I been manually using the "static delay time" manual parameter

and "sweeping" it manual like if it was my thumb. At the same time i Sweep the Wet/dry signal also kinda of like morphing the two parameters but it still doesn't do the job like tape flanging or phaseing how can i do this? how do i get those "Cross over points" like in tape flanging and phasing?

 

I think to get the "Cross over points" i leave the manual parameter at a "static delay time" NOT sweep it and nudge the WET signal (the static delay time) BEFORE the DRY recorded signal

 

So if im moving the DRY signal in real time AFTER the WET "static delay time" ( the manual parameter ) on the phaser or flanger pedal it creates "cross over points" just like tape phasing and flanging

 

3 morphing parameters i automated by hand to do at the same time to get that old phasing and flanging effect

[Phil O'Keefe]

I think what you're referring to as "crossover points" is more commonly known as "through the null"... you might want to use that expression, along with "flanging" and check over on Google.

 

IMO, you'll never completely nail the sound of true tape deck based flanging with a pedal - no matter what you try.

[Walters9515]

Thanks phil for the information

 

crossover points" is more commonly known as "through the null"...

 

What causes crossover points in phasers or flangers?

 

 

What causes "Through the null" in phases or flangers?

 

 

What is Null? the zero crossing point? Null of what?

 

Can phases or flangers have multiple crossover points and how?

[Filch]

Here we go again......

 

Twang your phase with EQ

[Walters9515]

phase with EQ will give me Crossover points?

[Phil O'Keefe]

What is Null? the zero crossing point?

 

Yup.

[where02190]

Troll alert....

[Walters9515]

How do you get have multiple null points?

 

So there is 3 or more crossover points?

[kylen]

Originally posted by Walters9515 How do you get have multiple null points? So there is 3 or more crossover points?

That's an interesting idea, hehe I think? What made you think of that? It seems more synth-ish than anything else.

 

I'm gonna take a stab at this and guess that if you had multiple crossover points it would eith ruin the effect by watering down the sigle crossover point where your attention should be - or it might even change the timbre of the sound enough to cause dissonance within the tone. Now that I said that it reminds me of a ring modulator...maybe that's it?

 

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/4819C4D47A5973B9862569BA0076AF9A

 

Now we're leading into resonant filters - way beyond my current interest and experience...outta here!

 

ED: Well maybe multi-operator chorus does that too...but that's not your intended sound either I don't believe.

[Walters9515]

I'm looking at it like this

 

Phaser signal>>>>>crossover frequency X

>>>>>crossover frequency Y

>>>>>crossover frequency Z

 

The crossovers are in Parallel

 

So when i turn or sweep the "manual" static delay time on my

phaser or flanger pedal its has 3 different "Nulls" so you get

Lines down the middles crossover

[Zooey]

Oh jeez, I'll play.

 

I think that the zero point indicates that fleeting point in time where a modulated delayed signal momentarily synchs up with the original dry signal. "Through zero" implies that the delayed signal has crossed from being slightly behind the dry signal to being slightly ahead (or vice versa). Two tape machines running in synch could easily do this. To do it with a pedal would be hard unless both the wet and dry signals were delayed.

 

Or maybe a zero point is just a predetermined phase relationship between wet and dry. In that case, you could arbitrarily pick a bunch of "zero points" and cross all of them as many times as you wanted.

 

You can't cross multiple points at the same time, however, without additional delayed signals. To me, that means multiple flangers.

[Kiwiburger]

Sir Walters has asked this same question, slightly disguised each time, repeatedly. Ad nauseum. Again and again. Quite often, actually. It gets a big boring.

[Walters9515]

Sorry Kiwi this is different its a variation with a new idea

[Kiwiburger]

Many of us have explained to you in detail about zero-crossing flanging, and how you need two delays for realtime. That's because time travel is currently not available, so you can't have a delay occuring before you have played something.

 

But if we are to believe what you tell us, you have access to two reel-to-reels, and you are very familiar with tape flanging. In fact, you appear to have the exact same real life experience with this that Fletcher has. Hmmm.

[Walters9515]

yes Kiwi i remember we talked about the Fix static delay time

in parallel with the LFO modulated delay time to get REal

Zero through or Null time to put the WET before the DRY

 

What im talking about is turning off the LFO using the Manual

parameter and sweeping it with my hand in real time with

the audio track playback , I duplicate the audio track so now there is 2 guitars both dry guitars i send track#2 to the aux sends and returns to my phaser or flanger with the manual parameter i turn off the LFO and sweep it manually like putting my thumb on the reel to reel BUT there is more to just that ot get the real tape phasing or flanging i turn the AUX return MIX also at the same time to go in and out of WET BUT another thing to do is

the "Crossover points" or "nulls" is the same thing to get this

effect i put the Dry track#1 on ANOTHER recorder and sweep the varispeed on tape record#1 and WET track tape record#2 i turn the varispeed also so the DRY and WET are going behind and forward in and out of sync BUT there is a Big difference between Varispeed and the Thumb

 

The Thumb when placed on the tape flanger Slows down the tape and pitch but it goes in and out because your thumb is not "STatic" or "Steady" the time varies

 

Varispeed when turning its Steady and static

[Kiwiburger]

They are two different things. Why not use your tape machines if you prefer that sound?

 

Or copy your track into a DAW, clone another and insert a delay. Shift the track backwards if you want the 'through zero' effect.

 

Assign the delay parameter to a midi fader, and automate your manual hand movements just like playing with your thumb on the flange.

[Walters9515]

So i should autmatic the Delay time, Return and send mixes volumes and the Static guitar pedal manual knob

 

How can i Automate the Manual knob and all the rest of the parameters to be more like Tape phasing and flanging?

and how to automatic the Varispeed also ?

[Kiwiburger]

Sales a bit slow today?

[Phil O'Keefe]

Kiwi, I really don't think Walters is Fletcher. I've discussed Walters with Fletcher - heck, Fletcher even sent me a PM with a heads up regarding him the first time I responded to a post of his...

 

Walters is either a guy with a little knowledge and a lot of imagination (and less than optimal communication skills ), a pro who is artfully yanking all of our chains, or maybe just an old fashoned troll - depending on your POV. Me? I find him difficult to understand sometimes (sorry Walters - no offense intended ) but as trolls go, relatively harmless. And besides, it's all topical, and it just might make us THINK a bit... and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

We can always decide to NOT hit the "reply" button as we see fit. Or reply and try to help out / play along... your choice folks.

[Walters9515]

I know how to Automate but i don't know how to Automate the parameters so its sounds like tape phasing or flanging

 

The automation curves or sweeps i don't know how this would look like

[Walters9515]

Sometimes when i listen to old phasing when it hits the null or zero throught its Shifts from Left channel speaker to Right channel speaker Why is this and how did they do this? was it because the Tape head is 2 track L and R? i know its not panning

its the Phasing Null or zero through same thing with tape flanginer when it hits the PEAK it shifts from L speaker to the Right speaker when it hits the Flanging or phaing Peaks why? and how does it do this?

[Chao]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe Walters is either a guy with a little knowledge and a lot of imagination (and less than optimal communication skills ), a pro who is artfully yanking all of our chains, or maybe just an old fashoned troll - depending on your POV.

I'm voting a bit of column A with a smidge of autism for taste.

[Kiwiburger]

I thought for a while that Walters was one of these computer program text generators. It would be fairly easy to throw some script together that could generate some classic Walterisms. That's why I baited him a bit, and found out that there are some signs of intelligent life in there.

 

The passive-aggressive disorder thing has been debated, and I think there is some merit in that hypothesis. As soon as a Walters thread actually starts to make any sense, Walters pees in his own pool. That's when my sympathy levels drop a bit.

 

Thought provoking stuff, which isn't all bad.

[kylen]

Welcome to "Walters World" where any and all ideas are virtually possible - I wouldn't mind hearing a clip or 2 sometimes just in case any of these brainstorms is actually physically possible, or have a practical use!

 

The other thing is, aren't we coming up on the 100th anniversary of the Theory of Relativity oar whatever it's called - maybe Walters is gearing up for that event with something totally different!

 

Well back to the matters at hand - rivets or zero-crossing or whatever it is...

[Walters9515]

Do u hear that "Peak" shifting from left to right why and how?