Members sventvkg Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm going to make a long story short but it basically goes like this. My friend and Drummer from my band and the guy that played on my last CD wanted to executive produce a CD that I was thinking about making. He had been listening to all my new material and loved it. He wanted to use these crack musicians (one of which was the bass player on my last CD who is a friend and GREAT) and he was going to cover expenses in return for a percentage should these tunes ever bring any $$. I was hesitant at first because I didn't feel comfortable with anyone paying. Well, I have known this guy for years and he talked me into it, got a GREAT guitar player, everyone was stoked on the material. My drummer got his dad excited, his dad put together a really nice Pro Tools HD3 system in a decent little studio, Vintage Mics etc..I flew to FL, we recorded, I produced everything sounds killer! However, it was discussed from the start that I was producing and he was Exec. Producing..He started to have issues with the direction of the music, the overall sound I was having, the fact that I was telling the guitar player what to play to which he commented, "what am I paying him for if you're just going to tell him what to do?" and the guitar player told him, "Dude, Sean is producing me, coming up with Great Ideas and I'm bouncing mine back off him".."This is what a producer does!"...Anyway, we I was really getting a bad feeling... I come home with 48K copies of the sessions to do editing and workmixes on the tracks in preparation for recording vocals, BG Vox, and acoustic guitars...Spend a month straight here working on the tunes, and of course the Drummer is HATING what I'm doing and my vision for the record...When of course it's MY record. He's really starting to give me a lot of grief to the point where I wince when I see an email or he calls....By the way from the start, our rolls were clear, or so I thought. I'm the producer and while he and EVERYONE involved has input and I will listen, it's ultimately down to me..In fact everything this drummer and the other musicians came up with on the tunes, I used!! No problems!~ So, these freakouts on his part keep going back and forth for a month or so until the drummer decided that we needed keys and since my guy was in Asia He was going to get another Hot Shot guy to do it. I DID NOT WANT THE DRUMMER PAYING FOR THIS..However he sweet talked me, and I went against my gut and told him it's fine..I wrote out a long sheet on what I wanted for the songs and the drummer and I spoke AT LENGTH about what the songs needed etc. I couldn't fly back to FL to attend the recording but the Drummer would produce. Long story short the tracks come back and the guy is a great, monster player but it sounds like he just blew over the tracks, rather than constructing orchestrated worked out parts like I would have had him do. Consequently I knew right away, that the majority of what he laid was unusable. At this point I was so hesitant on telling the drummer I hated the keys tracks because there had been so many issues on his end and I had just had it. Meanwhile my guy came back from Asia, I showed him the tracks along with everyone else and all agreed the drummer's keys guy was great but the tracks he laid weren't usable..My guy started working on them and I have been very happy..Well the drummer keeps bugging me about what I thought etc etc..Finally I had to tell him my guy was re-recording keys and he just LOSES IT!!! He freaks! and basically just pulls out of the project, ceases communication with me, unfriends me on Facebook etc etc...Childlike, immature bull{censored} especially since I have known and worked with this drummer for 10 years!!! Things broke down from there and eventually I was just trying to work out a deal to pay the drummer back for what he invested but he won't give me number! He would rather hold my 96K original tracks spitefully at ransom because frankly he and his family and incredibly wealthy and a few grand to him is nothing. Basically he tells me I can't use the tracks because he paid for them(even though I have offered to work out terms for him to be paid back)..Long story short, I know this guy has no real case because I've tried in good faith to work it out with him and he doesn't want to and I'm certain I could use the 48K versions of the tracks I have that he paid for legally but I'm not willing to deal with going to court over this bull{censored}.. So, I'm walking away from this project and all the tracks this asshole paid for...Such a bummer because I was happy with the way they came out. Months of work wasted but oh well..I've asked the Bass player to re-lay his parts at home for me at his leisure or I will record them myself. He came up with some brilliant ideas and parts and he's a friend, so I hope he agrees to do it for me. As far as the guitar parts, I can lay them myself and truthfully, I came up with 90% of them at least, have the chops to put them down no problem. As for the drums, I have another guy that's going to re-lay them as well..{censored}ing Bummer though.. The drummer and I had a verbal agreement but nothing was written down so I'm not {censored}ed but neither am I protected here. That was a nice lesson. If I ever do anything else again I will have a piece of paper that states that the tracks are mine no matter what!! It would have saved me from re-recorded stuff here....I thought this would be a nice story that someone might be able to get something out of.. By the way, if anyone wants to hear the tracks we laid they are HERE. Keep in mind, all the vocals were recorded live at the board (besides a couple harmonies) and are scratch as well as all acoustic guitars...I'll be laying real vox and acoustic in the next couple months as the rhythm tracks get redone. Oh, the keys aren't on here yet either besides on one song..Most of them are scratch keys I Laid. Anyway, Maybe someone can learn something or at least be entertained by my story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Sounds like he was training for a major label gig. Something similar happened to a guy I did some shows with who signed with Blind Pig in 1999 (http://www.lloydjonesmusic.com/) They redid some of his song tracks, remixed it after he was gone and tried to make it sound like a pop record, reneged on their promise to pay him publishing separate from their recoupment deal, and basically expected him to promote the record. He told me to never sign with a label that wouldn't guarantee me in writing creative control. That was a advice I heeded, and have paid for every one of my records out of my own pocket. Sorry you had such a suck experience, but I gotta say, it doesn't surprise me a bit, sadly. And seriously, other than Stewart Copeland, what drummers have made great producers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Sounds like he was training for a major label gig. Something similar happened to a guy I did some shows with who signed with Blind Pig in 1999 ( http://www.lloydjonesmusic.com/) They redid some of his song tracks, remixed it after he was gone and tried to make it sound like a pop record, reneged on their promise to pay him publishing separate from their recoupment deal, and basically expected him to promote the record. He told me to never sign with a label that wouldn't guarantee me in writing creative control. That was a advice I heeded, and have paid for every one of my records out of my own pocket. Sorry you had such a suck experience, but I gotta say, it doesn't surprise me a bit, sadly. And seriously, other than Stewart Copeland, what drummers have made great producers? I hear ya brother! This Drummer has no track record either. That being said, the saga took another turn today. The guitarist and bass player both called the drummer and told him they were really proud of the record, everyone worked hard on it and they wanted to be featured on the album. Basically, they told the drummer to release my tracks because it wasn't right for him to hold them hostage and that maybe I could work a deal for less percentage and get my 96K tracks back. Both the bass player and guitar player told me they will have nothing to do with this drummer ever again, he is wrong, is a dick, agree with me that he ain't going to make it Nashville with this attitude, etc. So the Drummer has agreed to release the tracks for a small percentage. I'm going to run this by my attorney today to see what he thinks. Interestingly both the bass player and guitar player said they would recut the tracks for me if need be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 17, 2011 finally...the word 'attorney' comes into the story... you hurt the guys feelings, man...you essentially told him he was not a fit producer, even though he was paying for everything... Egos are fragile, and you are dealing with a guy who obviously has a fragile one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Meh...turns out your instincts were right. Make sure your tunes are copywritten NOW!!!!! But if he hasn't made a move on the tunes, then it has to be all just water under the bridge. Not that you'd ever USE that same bridge again.....Lotsa projects have stop and re start problems....just write it up to the cost of doing business..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 You are Right Daddymac! 3shift, My stuff is protected and I agree, it's just par for the course..Good to keep learning in life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted March 18, 2011 Members Share Posted March 18, 2011 I had a listen last night while i was pissing around on the internet, i have to say, i like it, not stuff i usually go for but i got through half of it and will listen to the rest tonight, good stuff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 18, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 18, 2011 Thanks Jeff. I appreciate it. Still don't know what's gonna happen with the tracks because the drummer keeps going back and forth and I'm just about through with him. I've asked the bass player and guitarist to relay their tracks at this point, so we'll see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 19, 2011 Members Share Posted March 19, 2011 and what did this experience cost you, sventvkg? in USD please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 19, 2011 This isn't over. We could be headed to court over this now. Not my doing. Anyway, I can't discuss it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 19, 2011 Members Share Posted March 19, 2011 I want to buy a copy of it whatever it turns out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 19, 2011 I want to buy a copy of it whatever it turns out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 21, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 21, 2011 Court? Without a contract? Small claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Frivolous claims on their part. It seems like we may have worked it out. I'm waiting for a contract from their attorney. Fun fun stuff! I won't even talk about anything without a piece of paper that i'm having my attorney draft for me for any musical endeavor I enter into. It's a nice lesson and fun to still be learning at 40 years old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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