Members offramp Posted May 9, 2006 Members Share Posted May 9, 2006 So, the biggest reason for this project is to get off my duff and try something I'd been wanting to try. It's not really a "proof-of-concept" project, because Yamaha already proved it. It's certainly "budget", and I was actually surprised by the results. I also wanted to do it because of recent threads about the subkick, and some people's desire to make one on the cheap (preachin' to the choir). This is one of those things that I'd been mulling over and over, never finding the time to attempt. When we were clearing some unwanted stuff out of my wife's parents' condo a couple of weeks ago, I happened upon the perfect victim: a crappy "bass box" from stereo-maker-wannabe Yorx. It was their attempt at a subwoofer, and what a laugh riot it was...pressboard, 6 1/2" speaker, dubious amp circuit design. So, out came the speaker. For the housing, I thought about contacting a guy on Freecycle who had been giving away a cheapo set of PULSE drums, and getting them, sacrificing one at the altar of the workbench; however, I just can't bring myself to cut into something like that, so I had to find another way. Because I've got a recessive mad scientist gene, I have lots of salvaged materials around the house, not the least of which is a variety of PVC pipe lengths and sizes, left over from an art car project for Burning Man. So, there was my housing. Connectors were a cinch, because I've got a {censored}load of them (and wire) in the shop. So, it really came down to putting down the beer and getting to it. I cut the length of PVC (didn't measure, just eyeballed). Drilled a hole for the mic stand threads, used the supplied knurled nut to hold it in. But how to attach the speaker? The magnet wasn't big enough to jam into the end of the PVC. Hmmmmmmm....well if it can't be done with HOT GLUE, it can't be done. Stripped an tinned the solder end (already had the XLR on it), and got busy with the Weller. The wire, although not speaker wire--as has been recommended--is shielded audio pair. This seemed to have worked. Total time: About 35 minutes, last night. This included the time necessary to get the PVC down from the storage space in the garage and slap it on the Workmate. How's it sound? Surprisingly good, for a melange of crap. Looks funny as hell. My interface is a MOTU 896; it goes into my G3 powerbook and through Digital Performer. Here's the setup on the kit: 57 snare EV DS35 on each ride tom (sorry, it's what I've got) 58 on floor tom 414 pair overheads 421 kick (inside, about three inches from the batter head, right behind the beater, slightly angled) my "subpar kick" Originally--as above--I had placed it opposite the mic hole. It sounded alright, but moving it over to in front of the sound hole was that much better. As much as I like the 421, I've been iffy about it on the kick. Now, I'm even worse, and it's shaming to realize that a {censored}ty 6 1/2" speaker with a small magnet and no commendable cone travel fares better than the 421 in my initial tests. The subpar sounds fine by itself; mixing the 421 in with it for a little "thack" simply adds another flavor. The mix here is super-raw...no EQ, no efx, nuthin'....and I apologize for the questionable quality. But it's enough to understand how much this little beast adds to the overall sound. There's very little of the 421 in this mix. sub-par kick When I get a little more focused (don't hold yer breath), I'll move up to the 12" Pyle guitar speaker I've had languishing in storage for years, now. A good belt of scotch, and I may just pull out the Black Widow from my disabled Peavy DataBass cabinet. I'd have to steel myself for that one...damned things weigh a ton and my back isn't what it used to be. So really, I guess this is a "proof-of-budget" project As where would say: "I hope this was helpful". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RJC Posted May 9, 2006 Members Share Posted May 9, 2006 Awesome! Except the "putting down the beer" part of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toddlans Posted May 9, 2006 Members Share Posted May 9, 2006 funny when i first read that i somehow thought he meant it was just a matter of getting sufficiently drunk before he started with it (instead of "sitting" down the beer so he COULD get started with it). I guess I go about things differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted May 9, 2006 Members Share Posted May 9, 2006 Try a concrete form tube (Home Depot) instead, or an old kick drum shell. Suspend the speaker inside it so it's free floating. I do this with an old Jap 24" kick drum, and leave a head on the opposite side for aditional resonance. I use anything from an 18" to a 6" speaker, a 12" emminence being my fav. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted May 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 9, 2006 Re-read my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 9, 2006 Members Share Posted May 9, 2006 Cool!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 9, 2006 Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2006 I wanna make one! I've been thinking about this for a while too Offramp. It just seems like it would solve so many problems at tracking time for so little cash. Got to do it Got to do it Got to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted May 9, 2006 Members Share Posted May 9, 2006 Originally posted by offramp Re-read my post. OK I did, but I don't see anything about suspending the speaker mic INSIDE a larger shell, like a bass drum....that's what I am recommending. Opens an entirely new set of sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted May 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 9, 2006 I mentioned passing up the drums because I didn't want to mangle a drum, no matter how crappy it is. As well, a closer look at the last photo will show you how much room I have to stick a shell in there. How 'bout zero? One primary objective was to do this without spending a dime on supplies. I used electricity....that cost a little money. Otherwise, this used existing crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Very cool. I think Where's suggestion of using a short length of 12" diameter concrete forms (they look like gigantic, very heavy-duty paper towel rolls and usually come in 2' and 4' lengths) would work. Use that in place of the PVC, and mount the mic stand as you did with the current version. Then use some springs to attach the speaker within the concrete form so it is suspended within it. Instant shock-mount. And it wouldn't have to be any longer than the current version. You'd save a drum shell and could still enclose the whole speaker. But doing the job with what you have on hand = priceless. Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted May 10, 2006 Members Share Posted May 10, 2006 You don't need to mangle anything. Remove one head, get some small bunjee cords to suspend the speaker with using the lugs as the anchor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted May 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2006 I've used concrete forms before, for a variety of projects; my problem with this one would be what to do with the rest of the tube... I'm running out of storage space. When I build things, I tend to want to make them permanent. I don't want a contraption with bungees and such, because my alignment with the universe is such that I'll spend more time fussing with the SOB than I will using it. I want to build it once, and leave it. Check out these waveforms: Yeah, I fixed the phase issue... one of those "D'OH!" moments, when I saw the waveform. Flipped the wires on the sub-par last night, so I won't have to make a habit of flipping in DP. The top is the 421. Guess which one I like better. Went digging for other speakers, last night. Knew there was a 12" in an old solid state amp cabinet that I'd long ago pitched the amp from. Turns out it's an old Fender (!!) I have NO idea where or when I got it. Totally forgot I had it. So, I'll be using that for something else, like an extension cab for my '71 Vibrochamp. I know I have a 12" Pyle from the late '70's/early '80's around here...I know it...that'll be my next test subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 10, 2006 Moderators Share Posted May 10, 2006 You aligned those didn't you? They didn't just happen like that right? If they did... how did you do that? I take it the 421 is in closer to the head and you slid the sub-par forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted May 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2006 Uh, no. 'course I did! Here it is, prior: What's still amazing to me--and it shouldn't be, by now, after all these years--is how much difference a small distance of 18" can make; the 421 and the sub-par are about the same distance from their relative heads. When you see it graphically like that, it gives you somewhat of a visual of the speed of sound. It just occured to me... I wonder what a similar device, located inside the kick, would do. In other words, replace the 421 with a sub-par/subkick. Probably be overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 10, 2006 Moderators Share Posted May 10, 2006 I know my post was kind of dumb... I'm always sliding things to align but when you didn't mention it I thought perhaps you were holding some secret Jedi recording technique and I wanted some! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted May 10, 2006 Members Share Posted May 10, 2006 I've used concrete forms before, for a variety of projects; my problem with this one would be what to do with the rest of the tube... I'm running out of storage space.When I build things, I tend to want to make them permanent. I don't want a contraption with bungees and such, because my alignment with the universe is such that I'll spend more time fussing with the SOB than I will using it. I want to build it once, and leave it. There's no fussing, you simply clip the bungees to the lugs and to the mounting holes in the speaker. Leave it assembled if you don't need the kick for another kick flavor. You could do the same thing by removing the front head of the actual kick drum, however I found this to not sound so good. Since there's not much in the way of usable frequencies above 200hz or so, closer only results in less fundamentals. Further away, using a heavy packing blanket to help isolate, I find works best. I generally have the speaker mic about 18" or so away. I'll LP the track usually around 75-80hz. It's all about the beef. I find that the phase shift much above that makes for a pretty {censored}ty sound if you don't cut it off. Smaller speakers will generate more high end, but lack the lows that the speaker mic is really the ticket for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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