Members sdsweet Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Hi guys,Here is a simple 10sec sample of my guitar through the chain i outlined earlier:ESP EC1000 > 5150II > 1960A cab > sm57 > Presonus FIREPOD > Cubase LE.there is a *.wav and a *.mp3 so take your pick. This is completely raw, exactly how it went in, no EQ, no nothin'.Unfortunately, we didn't get any pictures, but the mic was near center about where the cone meets the center, square with the speaker. I'm sure the room is part of the problem. Are there any simple actions I can take to try to brighten the room?Anyway, I REALLY appreciate the feedback, and if anyone takes the time to listen, you get a big high 5 (I know that's a wave, but close enough...)http://www.geocities.com/thesweetfamily@sbcglobal.net/rawguitarwav.wavhttp://www.geocities.com/thesweetfamily@sbcglobal.net/rawguitarmp3.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 The first link didn't work for me. The second one worked fine.I heard it on cheap little computer monitors because my studio is not hooked up to the internet, so bear that in mind.My first reaction is one of surprise because at least on this tiny little cheapy computer speaker (they are the small Apple kind), it sounds bright enough. I had to look to see what you didn't like about it. It's just a little surprising. I mean, isn't it fairly easy to get bright guitar sounds? If anything, I find myself asking guitarists to turn down their treble controls when they come in to record here.But if you do want brighter guitar sound, there's all sorts of stuff you can do. Here's a few off the top of my head:1.) change the pick-ups2.) use new strings3.) crank up the treble on the amp (duh! )4.) record near a window or mirror5.) put sheets of plywood or other reflective stuff near the amp, down on the floor, whatever.6.) use bright condenser mics (Rode NT2s, some of the Audio-Technica stuff, whatever) farther back from your close mic. Or hell, as your close mic if you wish.7.) record the strings of the electric guitar and blend 'em in with the sound of the amp (no, I'm not kidding - this gives it this cool sense of articulation and gets the sound of the pick striking the strings a little more, even if it's blended faintly in the background)8.) move the close mic around a little, possibly backing it off from the amp slightly. This will reduce the proximity effect, which may have the net effect of "brightening" the sound (you know what I mean).9.) If possible, move the speaker cabinet off the floor, putting it on a chair or table or whatever, and placing cushions or whatever underneath it to decouple it.10.) record your amp in the bathroomI'd give you an eleventh possibility, but like Rudy Van Gelder, I have my secrets.... Lettuce know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members version 3.0 Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 hows the sound difference beteen a sm57 and a beta57. im just assuming the beta is better because of the tighter response and the higher frequency reponse. so, i guess im just wondering why everyone chooses the sm57 for recording guitar cabs (and why its supposidly the "industy standard") over the beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by version 3.0 hows the sound difference beteen a sm57 and a beta57. im just assuming the beta is better because of the tighter response and the higher frequency reponse. so, i guess im just wondering why everyone chooses the sm57 for recording guitar cabs (and why its supposidly the "industy standard") over the beta. I dunno. Never had a Beta before, and I got my 57s cheeep.I've usually used a 421 close and an LDC far away (usually an AT40640 or a Lawson L251). Lately, though, for things like distorted leads and some distorted rhythms, I've been "rediscovering" the 57 and enjoying it. I think part of it is because I'm sending it through a Neve Portico, and the 57 sounds really good through one. And also, let's face it, recording guitar cabinets ain't rocket science. I pretty much like to stick a mic or two in front of them and move on. Most of the tone is from the guitarist anyway, s we get it to sound good in the room, move the mics around a little, and press record. I now - at long last - have decent equipment, so I don't have to "fight" with my equipment. Now it's just a matter of getting good musicians in the room, micing 'em up, and staying out of the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members version 3.0 Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 i see. im just suprised since so many people really on or use the sm57 that not many have even tried out the beta 57. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by version 3.0 i see. im just suprised since so many people really on or use the sm57 that not many have even tried out the beta 57. Yeah. Part of it's probably just habit. Part of it is because 57s are *everywhere*. Part of it is because 57s rarely ever suck on stuff like that.I don't own one of these. I probably should...but a nice mic on a guitar cabinet is the woefully overlooked beyerdynamic M201. That's a nice mic, and extremely versatile. 421s are nice for cabinets too.But for rhythms, I usually don't go for one mic. I really like the LDC farther away. The blending of the two of them is something I really like a lot. I have the room sound, more depth, more options, an easier time blending the guitar in the mix, and more of the character of the guitar sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted October 31, 2006 Members Share Posted October 31, 2006 By accident I've gotten my truest capturing of a Marshall half stack with a Royer 121 a foot away from the amp and an RE20 about 15' away in the opposite direction about 2' from the wall. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 31, 2006 Members Share Posted October 31, 2006 I'd love to borrow your Royer (for, say, about a decade or two) and try!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Han Posted October 31, 2006 Members Share Posted October 31, 2006 Originally posted by loner22 re the article - does anybody know who Slipperman is? Yes, he's the boss of a pretty big studio and if you're really curious, PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members version 3.0 Posted November 3, 2006 Members Share Posted November 3, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli [b but a nice mic on a guitar cabinet is the woefully overlooked beyerdynamic M201. That's a nice mic, and extremely versatile. 421s are nice for cabinets too. im on it chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I don't own one, but a studio I used to work at years ago had a Beta 57 and I used to use it from time to time. It's got a hotter output ( neodymium magnet), tighter pattern (supercardioid) and a bit wider but less "sharp" sounding presence peak than a standard 57. Proximity effect on it is pretty significant too IIRC. From what I remember, it is not a bad sounding mic at all. I'm not exactly sure (no pun intended ) why they never seemed to catch on as much as the original 57's... my guess would be the price difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by sdsweet Hey TBush, I believe you are someone that can really help me. I visited your site (very cool BTW) and see that you have a 5150 in your studio, and you have worked with Haste The Day and Bloodlined Caligraphy. Right up my alley... Here's my chain. ESP EC1000 > 5150II > 1960A cab > sm57 > Presonus FIREPOD > Cubase LE. I know my gear leaves much to be desired relative to a pro recording studio but I'm hoping to get as close as possible, you know? To my point, my guitar tracks sound very dull and lack presence. I swear I've twiddled the knobs on the 5150 until I've been blue in the face, and with no good results. I could use your help. I'd be happy to post some raw guitar tracks if you're willing to give them a listen. Thanks in advance. Hey sdsweet-I've not been on this site all week, as much, much work has come in (yay!) but I'll tell you- these guys are giving you some great advice for guitar tones. I just finished a session with the more Fender-ey Tele-type thing and it was an LDC back away from the cab on each rig. Very spacious and 3-D... but you're wanting that wall-of-insanity , totally thick yet distinct sound. It sounds like your gear is fine- sometimes moving the capsule of the mic just 1/4 inch on the cab will make a world of difference. The Bloodlined Calligraphy CD that you mentioned- that was a case of moving the 57 around a bit until we got the classic British Marshall thing- but up until we found the sweet spot it was pretty dull and uninspiring. And one more thing- EQ is your friend- but again, it's the sweet spot and a healthy respect for subtractive EQ that can really put the guitars where they are filling up the sonic space. Here's a stupid trick- take the 2 guitar tracks and pan L/R- then run each track's signal to a single mono buss and insert a speaker emulator plug. Find the right type of speaker (4-12, 4-12 off-axis, whatever) and bring that buss up until it's barely peeking through. This can be kinda cool for getting the "wall", but too much of it just sludges everything all up. It's a stopgap re-amp, but if you start with good sounding guitars then all the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sdsweet Posted November 6, 2006 Members Share Posted November 6, 2006 Originally posted by TBush I'll tell you- these guys are giving you some great advice for guitar tones. They certainly are, it has helped tremendously. I've made pretty good progress even since my last post, and we have plans to do some "serious" recording soon. That will be my opportunity to really experiment with mic position. I'll make sure to post some finished tracks once we get there. Thanks for the response and your input as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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