Entry level computer/DAW studio

[Rollo10AD]

OK, I'm getting an idea of what I want to get...

 

This will be an entry level DAW studio for around $1200, less if I can, more if I have to. I want to record all instruments myself, one track at a time (guitar, keyboard, bass, drum and percussion programming, synth horns, symth strings, etc.). I want to combine and integrate audio with MIDI. My purpose is to decently record and produce my own music, send it out there via TAXI or some such path, and see what happens.

 

My salient questions:

 

1) Would a $500-$700 brand-name computer from Best Buy etc. be good enough for what I want to do? Let's say an AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+, 1 GB RAM, 100 GB hard drive, DVD/CD read & write, etc. You know, the typical specs you would find in such a model. I guess I'm really concerned with the soundcard and graphics card; would the typical gaming soundcard and graphics card on such a computer be good enough/appropriate enough for DAW applications?

 

2) Would a $200-$500 audio interface be OK, like Tascam US-122/Cubase LE or Mbox2/ProTools LE?

 

3) Just a DECENT pair of monitors so I can have a DECENT representation of what I've recorded/mixed?

 

Remember, I'm talking entry level here--would professional A&R people be impressed enough by the results I would get on such an entry level system (assuming, of course, that my music is worth a {censored}!) to be interested in promoting /networking my music?

 

Or would I need more state-of-the-art, top o' the line equipment?

[UstadKhanAli]

 

My salient questions: 1) I guess I'm really concerned with the soundcard and graphics card; would the typical gaming soundcard and graphics card on such a computer be good enough/appropriate enough for DAW applications?

 

 

I don't know about the graphics card, but a typical gaming card would not offer adequate sound quality for recording, in my opinion.

 

 

2) Would a $200-$500 audio interface be OK, like Tascam US-122/Cubase LE or Mbox2/ProTools LE?

 

 

Yes, this would be much better than a typical gaming soundcard. Conversion quality is a big factor, as we discussed in the other thread.

 

 

3) Just a DECENT pair of monitors so I can have a DECENT representation of what I've recorded/mixed?

 

 

 

I use Yorkville YSM-1 passive monitors, which I purchased for $200 for both, and they have a decent representation of what is going on. There are others too, some of which are active.

 

If you are really on a budget, you could use what seem to be a relatively flat stereo system (in other words, something that doesn't hype the bottom and top end) and get by until you had enough money to get something better.

[Rollo10AD]

Thanks, UKA, for replying (gee, I thought I would have 20 different replies by now--what a dreamer!).

 

Aha! So the audio interface would "take over" the job from the computer's soundcard? I did not know that.

 

And I don't know what the term "conversion" means. Obviously I'm a newbie here.

 

I have a "two-prong attack" for what I want to do: I will write songs with a songwriting partner, AND I will attempt to get in the front door as a radio/TV spot scorer.

 

Would a more MIDI-intensive app like Cubase or Sonar be better than Pro Tools for the second "prong?"

[Will Chen]

1) Yes, make sure your hard drive is 7200 RPM and check to make sure the computer can support at least 2 gig rarm for later upgrades (trust me, you'll need more ram eventually). Sound card isn't important as you will use the interface for that. Graphics card will be fine.

 

2) You can get the Tascam 1082 for around $500 with some diligent shopping which is what I use, but it's probably overkill for just starting out

 

3) Honestly, you'll have a way to go before you'll be able to even judge what decent monitors are. And what makes monitors decent is in itself subjective. I would suggest going cheap (but definately buy monitors, not gaming computer speakers) here or even waiting and use a pair of headphones for a while. Many here, including myself, won't recommend mixing exclusivly on headphones but honestly they provide a very intricate and microscopic representation of what you've recorded which might work against you in the long run, but could help you better hear the intracacies of mic placement and EQ when first starting out.

 

 

Thanks, UKA, for replying (gee, I thought I would have 20 different replies by now--what a dreamer!)... Would a more MIDI-intensive app like Cubase or Sonar be better than Pro Tools for the second "prong?"

 

 

Well, honesetly this question gets asked quite often so many will simply ignore the thread. I use SONAR 5 Studio basically because I've been a Cakewalk user forever. Never really used Pro Tools, but never really felt the need to. To remain competitive, all the applications have pretty much the same feature set but a different workflow. Since you've included scoring as a career goal, you will need to learn how to use midi and samplers/synths and will need to purchase a midi controller at some point. The bundled LE versions of Cubase and Sonar should be more than enough to get you started in the right direction.

 

Good luck!

[UstadKhanAli]

I would agree with wbcsound's point about the bundled LE versions of Cubase nand getting 7200 rpm hard drives. And yes, the all-important RAM.

 

I just answered your other question about conversion in your other thread.

[brandondrury1]

 

would professional A&R people be impressed enough by the results

 

 

If Bob Rock was using this rig, yes A&R people would be impressed. I can't say for you. The gear isn't that big of deal, in the whole grand scheme of things. The kind of thing that "impresses A&R people"....well that's a whole new back of worms.

 

Basically, if you are good, the results will be good with this rig.

 

Brandon

[UstadKhanAli]

The kind of thing that "impresses A&R people"....well that's a whole new back of worms.

 

 

Repetitive dance-oriented songs with hooks sung by fantastic-looking women with implants who are really good at dancing and writhing around - I believe that's what they're looking for!! Is this helping you, Rollo? :D

[Rollo10AD]

3) Honestly, you'll have a way to go before you'll be able to even judge what decent monitors are. And what makes monitors decent is in itself subjective. I would suggest going cheap (but definately buy monitors, not gaming computer speakers) here or even waiting and use a pair of headphones for a while. Many here, including myself, won't recommend mixing exclusivly on headphones but honestly they provide a very intricate and microscopic representation of what you've recorded which might work against you in the long run, but could help you better hear the intracacies of mic placement and EQ when first starting out. Well, honesetly this question gets asked quite often so many will simply ignore the thread. I use SONAR 5 Studio basically because I've been a Cakewalk user forever. Never really used Pro Tools, but never really felt the need to. To remain competitive, all the applications have pretty much the same feature set but a different workflow. Since you've included scoring as a career goal, you will need to learn how to use midi and samplers/synths and will need to purchase a midi controller at some point. The bundled LE versions of Cubase and Sonar should be more than enough to get you started in the right direction. Good luck!

 

That "headphones as monitors" idea sounds good (and money-saving!). But for that matter, what about the idea of foregoing the mics and just plugging instruments directly into the interface? Anything wrong with that?

 

I already have a GM capable digital piano. Anything wrong with using that as a controller?

 

Software: I have been advised by a couple people not to go with anything other than Pro Tools, that I'd be wasting my time with any other app, that Pro Tools is THE standard, everyone uses it, etc. etc. etc. Are these Pro Tools proponents on the money, or are they full of {censored}?

 

Put another way, what can Cubase or Sonar do that Pro Tools can't?

[Will Chen]

There is nothing wrong about using anything you can get to work for you.

 

As far as software goes, I would be more interested in hearing the negatives regarding the alternative products which affected their choice rather than the raves of what they use. For example, I use [ProTools] because [Cubase] can't do this, that, and the other. Then, find someone else (like on these boards) to validate those claims. I promise you, it's a very competitive market and they all do basically the same thing.

 

I read an interesting article in the new TapeOP (Google it if you've never heard of it) about this guy Jaime something, forgot his last name, who has had music placed in a bunch of MTV shows using an old MAC G4 running Live and Reason, AT2020 and AT2021 mics ($150 a set), an m-audio usb interface, a Presonus BlueTube, and cheap Roland monitors and records in a small closet in his home.

 

There will come a time to ponder the intricacies of unit X from company A versus unit Y from company B. That time is not now. Train your ears and you'll always hear the truth.

 

What's my point? People will tell you your gear is not good enough. People will tell you you won't amount to anything. Don't listen. Don't think. In the immortally marketed words of my generation, just do it.

[UstadKhanAli]

That "headphones as monitors" idea sounds good (and money-saving!). But for that matter, what about the idea of foregoing the mics and just plugging instruments directly into the interface? Anything wrong with that?

 

Depends. Do you like the direct sound? If so, go for it. It's often done with keyboards. Some people use a guitar interface like a POD or other such thing. If you like that sound, then go for it. It's personally not my favorite sound, so I typically mic my guitar amp instead. I also do this with many of my keyboards.

 

Software: I have been advised by a couple people not to go with anything other than Pro Tools, that I'd be wasting my time with any other app, that Pro Tools is THE standard, everyone uses it, etc. etc. etc. Are these Pro Tools proponents on the money, or are they full of {censored}?

 

Pro Tools is the most commonly used DAW, but there are others that are, quite frankly, more advanced in certain areas (certainly MIDI function, for one). Consider getting Pro Tools if you are concerned about whether others can open up all your sessions or not; if that doesn't matter to you, then get the one that makes the most sense intuitively to you and don't worry about it.

 

You can always transfer your AIFF or WAV files to another DAW by consolidating them and then simply lining 'em all up in another DAW. I do this all the time for peopel. It won't have the EQs, pans, or volumes, but at least you have the audio and can get to work. With certain applications, such as Logic, you can "freeze" the AIFF or WAV files with the EQs and other effects, if you wish, and then reimport them to another DAW.

 

Just get the best sounding tools you can afford, get the DAW that makes the most sense to YOU, and then get on with making music.

 

 

Put another way, what can Cubase or Sonar do that Pro Tools can't?

[Rollo10AD]

Gee, my original post was eaten by cyber-gremlins, so it seems...

 

Great advice from all. I'm thinking of going for Mbox2 bundled with Pro Tools LE BECAUSE you can only get PT LE on a Digidesign interface, AND Mbox2 is fully compatible with other DAWs--so if I want to add Sonar 6 Studio Edition, for example, what's to stop me?

 

Apart from the extra $500 and the double learning curve, of course...

 

But the point is, if down the road I feel I need it, I'll just go ahead and add it.

[Lucky #9]

Don't know if it's been mentioned in earlier posts as I scanned through them and may have missed it, but:

 

Use two hard drives --- one for the OS and programs and one strictly for what you are recording.

 

And don't forget to back up your material regularly.

Did I mention that you should back up your material on a regular basis?

Did I say that you should ...

[Will Chen]

... Use two hard drives --- one for the OS and programs and one strictly for what you are recording. And don't forget to back up your material regularly. Did I mention that you should back up your material on a regular basis? Did I say that you should ...

 

Two hard drives are more of a best practice rather than a necessity on a robust machine. When applications load, they typically load to RAM first and only hit the drive in the case of requiring virtual memory (also known as the page file). You can monitor the page file usage of your system while running your audio apps to see the degree it's being used and any performance hit you might be taking.

 

My Dell Laptop has an internal 7200 drive and 2 gigs ram and I've run 12 plus tracks with a couple moderate sized SondFonts and a multitude of plugs including a couple instances of SIR (convolution verb) before noticing any issues. And even then it was a slight stutter when starting, which was completely eliminated when temporyily freezing the virtual synths.

 

Backing up your material is not optional in my book as hard drives have moving parts and moving parts wear out. All hard drives will fail eventually.

[Lee Knight]

I tell you what I would do in your position. I'd make a PC. It's fun, it takes a Saturday afternoon, when things go wrong you'll know how to fix it, and you'll get a better machine for less. You can go to Digidesign's forum (DUC) and they have a thread dedicated to detailing all the needed and recommended components. Then buy Building a PC for Dummies. Easy. Really.

 

Then I'd buy the new mini M-Box for Pro Tools. There are a lot of people that will tell you to stay away from PT, and from their point of view they're right. But from your point of view, I suspect they're wrong. Once you start with PT, you will be amazed at how many people will be able to help you, because they know PT. You'll meet someone at a coffee house and the next thing you know he's following you home to show you how to fine tune automation and how to use the side chain feature on your compressor, oh, and he happens to play great drums. And he's got his kit setup at his PT studio in his home and sure, he'd be happy to play drums on your songs if you play bass on his and you guys can just trade files back and forth and... That kind of networking is fun and very enriching.

[Rollo10AD]

DAMN, I lost my original reply AGAIN!

 

OK, quick version:

 

Glowing review of Sonar Power Studio 250 (Edirol interface with Sonar 6 Studio Edition) in latest issue of Guitar One. VERY tempting, seems to have everything I like (for the money). $539 for the whole deal!

 

HOWEVER, Pro Tools still has that one big thing going for it--

 

NETWORKING

 

(If only that yucky pastel bon-bon taffy color scheme could be changed--YECCCHHH... Actually, the whole PT graphic interface is ugly, whereas Sonar's is the best, most appealing one I've seen.

[Will Chen]

 

HOWEVER, Pro Tools still has that one big thing going for it-- NETWORKING...

 

 

Well, you mean networking with other Pro Tools users (granted PT has the deepest market penetration). Each DAW has it's own user community and every DAW (PC based anyway) can import/export wav files breaking down the barriers between systems. SONAR and a few other DAWS have adopted OMFI (Open Media Framework Interchange) which is ProTools compatible (however Digidesign charges to add this functionality) to a degree (raw data in sequence only, no volume, pan , effects, etc).

 

I'm not saying stay away from PT, just that PT isn't the only viable solution. In fact, I'm saying that the name brand on a DAW makes about as much difference as the label on your jeans. They all fit a little differently and at first might be a little tight, but after you wash them a couple times they fit just right.

 

As far as positive reviews, I 'll bet you'll find glowing reviews of pretty much all the apps. Shoot, there are a few absolutely free options which would be absolutely perfect to learn the basics with...

[Rollo10AD]

 

As far as positive reviews, I 'll bet you'll find glowing reviews of pretty much all the apps. Shoot, there are a few absolutely free options which would be absolutely perfect to learn the basics with...

 

 

Actually, I suppose I don't even NEED a new DAW, since I have both MOTU FreeStyle (which I've used on my MIDI system for close to 10 years now) AND PGMusic Power Tracks Pro (which I have yet to even use!).

 

But ya know, the more research I do on the various DAWs, the more I find Pro Tools unappealing, unattractive, and unintuitive. It just carries that legacy as "audio editor" with it, as opposed to intuitive composer/arranger workstation.

 

Sonar seems more and more appropriate for what I want to do with music. And you're right about the networking thing and file transfer anyway. I'd hate to be burdened with a DAW I just don't like--like meeting a date or a business partner everyone recommended to me, then finding out we couldn't stand one another, you dig?