Members Lucky #9 Posted October 29, 2008 Members Share Posted October 29, 2008 I'm thinking about adding an inexpensive ribbon mic to the arsenal. Does anybody use the Cascade Fat Head? Goes fo $159. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted October 29, 2008 Members Share Posted October 29, 2008 I have a Fathead II, my friend has a Fathead. I love it for acoustic guitar,ans amps. It sounds much more real than a condensor mic. I haven't yet used it on vocals (had it about 2 weeks), but you REALLY need a pop filter. I use a Summit mic pre with an RNC, ans there is no lack of gain, or too much noise. The null in the pattern is useful for reducing vocals in the acoustic track if you set it up pointing down to the bridge over the players shoulder, with the middle of the mic even with the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted October 29, 2008 Members Share Posted October 29, 2008 I have two that I use for drum overheads/room mics all the time. I've also used them for guitar amps, and they work great for both applications. Good mics. I got the ones with the Lundahl transformer options, which is a little more expensive, but man do they ever sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 29, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 29, 2008 I've got a pair and they get used all the time. Drum room, E.guitar. Tambourine and shakers. They're good. I'm using then where I used to use a pair of 414s in the past. They do a very nice Blumlein pair. The 414s will sound more slick, the Fatheads more... what? All the adjectives sound negative and they're not. More veiled? Murky? Distant? If you can turn those descriptives around to be positives, that's how they sound to me. It's a valuable flavor to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimmy ivory Posted October 30, 2008 Members Share Posted October 30, 2008 i just got a pair of fatheads, and i like 'em pretty well. from my limited experience, the bass rolloff is a HUGE factor. if i put one less than two feet from the guitar cab, the high end is completely overpowered by the rumble. at a distance, it still sounds pretty present and does sound good, but of course you're asking for more room at that distance. i bought a very expensive popguard because i do like the way they make my voice sound when i'm singing very deep/monotonally. so i bought a pair, planning on doing mid-side, but what i've found kind of scares me about these mics, even though i've heard nothing but good about them. the serial #s are only 3 digits apart, yet i can tell them apart. i have far from golden ears and i can tell you which is in use, because one has a noticeably better high-freq response, a more open sound, which is what i like in a mic. when i go back and forth, the other sounds like it's under a pillow (exaggeration of course). one thing to keep in mind is if you've got several people in a live room, it's getting the backside as well, so separation may be an issue. probably obvious to you, but somehow slipped my mind at times. all in all, everyone says they like these mics, and for $159 it's a bargain. there's no diff in sound between the fathead and fathead II, only in looks. and damn, they are beautiful looking (both versions), that much i know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rubber Lizard Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have one. Another one would be nice, because they sound very... real... when far from the source. So for room mics, a blumelin array. I've had them sound dark, dull, boomy... but with a little low-cut eq (to which these mics respond nicely) you're back to real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 Interesting.. I just started playing around with my CAD Trion 7000 ribbon mic that has been sort of laying around unused for quite a while. I recorded a cowboy/country kinda singer with a rather old timey voice that needed some nice warmth and the mic amazed me.. I have been thinking of getting a couple Fatheads and trying them out on acoustic instruments.. anyone done any acoustic guitar, mandolin, fiddle, upright bass, etc. with a Fathead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted October 31, 2008 Members Share Posted October 31, 2008 Acoustic guitar is stunningly good with a Fathead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 i just got a pair of fatheads, and i like 'em pretty well. from my limited experience, the bass rolloff is a HUGE factor. if i put one less than two feet from the guitar cab, the high end is completely overpowered by the rumble. Proximity effect is usually pretty significant with any bi-directional / figure 8 microphone when you have it placed close to the sound source. A low frequency shelving EQ and / or a high pass filter will usually take care of that issue just fine. But watch your SPL's - you don't want to get in too close and then "hit" some ribbon mikes with too much level, or you can shred the ribbon. Ditto that for heavy blasts of wind - I recommend always using a good pop screen if you're going to use a ribbon mic for vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have been thinking of getting a couple Fatheads and trying them out on acoustic instruments.. anyone done any acoustic guitar, mandolin, fiddle, upright bass, etc. with a Fathead? Not with a Fathead (don't own one), but I have with other ribbon mikes, and they can indeed work very well on those sorts of sound sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted November 1, 2008 Members Share Posted November 1, 2008 I haven't used a Fathead on acoustic guitar and the like, but I've had very good results in the past with a BLUE Woodpecker ribbon. It's somewhat of a different animal than many ribbons, though, IMO. What with requiring phantom power and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted November 1, 2008 Members Share Posted November 1, 2008 Well, yesterday I finished mixing my country/bluegrass tune and it will be up on the internet shortly. I did both the lead and harmony vocals with the Trion ribbon and must admit it worked really well for our intent. Next week I'm going to try the ribbon on banjo to see how it works. Pretty much all large ribbon mics are bi-directional by nature? I have a Beyer M260 also.. Of course it's not bi-directional. I wonder what an acoustic group would sound like sitting around a collection of Fatheads... That might be pretty "organic".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Most ribbons are bi-directional - it's the "natural" polar pattern for ribbons. There have been some ribbons that use different polar patterns; as you noted, the Beyer M260 and M160 are hypercardioid, some versions of the RCA DX77 can be set as cardioid, some of the Fostex printed ribbon models were cardioid IIRC, etc. However, most ribbons you run across will be bi-directional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 I wonder what an acoustic group would sound like sitting around a collection of Fatheads... That might be pretty "organic".. It might indeed Mark - but the main issue you may run across is adequate signal levels. Softer acoustic instruments, when tracked at a distance (mic to sound source) may require considerable amounts of mic preamp gain for decent tracking levels, so a high gain, low noise preamp would normally be called for in that situation. If you used multiple mikes, placed in closer, you might get around that, but that kind of defeats the whole idea of the "multiple players circled around a couple of mikes; levels adjusted via playing dynamics and relative positioning" approach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted November 1, 2008 Members Share Posted November 1, 2008 I have several ribbons - like Oktava, 2 Fatheads, Royer SF-12, and just got this X-15. Here is the sample: http://www.cascademicrophones.com/cascade_X-15.html From all of them the X-15 build wasn't too good, however it sounds pretty smooth and I'd say natural. I used Oktava for saxophone live session recording - you can hear it below: [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] And I used Fatheads for classical recording as Blumlein, was very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted November 1, 2008 Members Share Posted November 1, 2008 I wonder what an acoustic group would sound like sitting around a collection of Fatheads... That might be pretty "organic".. It might indeed Mark - but the main issue you may run across is adequate signal levels. Softer acoustic instruments, when tracked at a distance (mic to sound source) may require considerable amounts of mic preamp gain for decent tracking levels, so a high gain, low noise preamp would normally be called for in that situation. If you used multiple mikes, placed in closer, you might get around that, but that kind of defeats the whole idea of the "multiple players circled around a couple of mikes; levels adjusted via playing dynamics and relative positioning" approach... Thanks Phil. I record all my acoustic groups in the same room at the same time now, only I typically use SD condensers on the instruments..except upright bass. I was thinking of using separate ribbons because their figure eight pattern would allow more bleed and possibly create a more organic vibe to the group...sort of like the "Viva Viagra" commercial guys are doing only with ribbons on all the instruments. I may take my ribbon to my next live bluegrass sound gig and give it a try as a single mic, which is pretty popular..might be interesting. And temnov, the horn sounds pretty good in that clip. Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 On a full group, an omni would be nice (condenser) for single mic, but a Blumlein pair of ribbons would probably really knock you out for the Bluegrass thing Mark; especially if you're looking for a more old school vibe. One of the great things about bi-directional mikes isn't just the extra "room" they grab, but also the near total rejection at the null points (sides). When working with multiple instruments in the same room, or a singer / guitarist, that can be used to your advantage - all you have to do is consider where the nulls are pointed, along with where the "hot" sides are. Aim the nulls at what you're trying to keep out of the mic, and the front / back at what you do want to capture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted November 2, 2008 Members Share Posted November 2, 2008 On a full group, an omni would be nice (condenser) for single mic, but a Blumlein pair of ribbons would probably really knock you out for the Bluegrass thing Mark; especially if you're looking for a more old school vibe. One of the great things about bi-directional mikes isn't just the extra "room" they grab, but also the near total rejection at the null points (sides). When working with multiple instruments in the same room, or a singer / guitarist, that can be used to your advantage - all you have to do is consider where the nulls are pointed, along with where the "hot" sides are. Aim the nulls at what you're trying to keep out of the mic, and the front / back at what you do want to capture... Thanks Phil.. I think a pair of Fatheads may be in my future. I have been recording with the groups in a half circle with six or seven feet between members and the bass in a semi isolated area. Using SD condensers has worked pretty well, but I am now doing some "old timey" type tunes that require an old timey vibe.. I have a ton of recordings done with the groups gathered around a single LD condenser and that seems to work well, but a couple Fatheads in a Blumlein..hmm. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted November 2, 2008 Members Share Posted November 2, 2008 SOT: if you break the actual ribbon, you get silence? I have a Chinese ribbon which rattles badly now, I'd think it was sag, but I won't know until I grow big enough ones to open it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 If you break the ribbon, you won't get any signal from the mic. As far as "sag" goes, you can help prevent it by storing the mic so the ribbon is upright or vertical. You shouldn't store a ribbon horizontally. I wouldn't suggest DIY ribbon replacement or re-tensioning. It's an art form, and not something you should attempt if you don't know what you're doing. I'd recommend sending the mic in for servicing... The only exception to that rule would be a mic that has a field replaceable ribbon assembly. The only mikes I can think of at the moment that feature an easily replaceable ribbon are the Groove Tubes Velo-8 and its tube counterpart, the Velo-8T. I have a Velo, and it's a killer ribbon mic. More expensive than the Cascades though... but that extra ribbon assembly they include, and the fact that it's replaceable by just about anyone (it's pre-tensioned and mounted on a small PCB board, and connects with a small molex connector - open the mic, pull a couple of screws out, disconnect the molex plug, reverse the steps when putting in the new ribbon assembly - done!) is a really clever and useful feature that probably wouldn't mean much if the mic didn't sound good - but fortunately, it sounds fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted November 2, 2008 Members Share Posted November 2, 2008 I thought so, re: signal. The mic is one of two I got in a big conspiracy-esque direct buy from a Chinese manufacturer, who makes mics we all know, sold under the usual brand names. They were $60 apiece or thereabouts. I got two 9-pattern tube condensors at the same time, $86 each. Anyway, out of the three, one of the ribbons rattled from the start, the other has been vertical since I got it, and I don't move it without the plastic bag it shipped in covering it. The second one has just started rattling, I don't know if it got too loud on a guitar cab, or maybe just the tension screw worked a little loose. I have a supplier for aluminum leaf, and detailed instructions saved somewhere, I meant to try to fix the bad one, but now that they're both bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Grey market stuff, huh? Not much chance of warranty repairs I suppose. You could give it a try yourself, but it really is an art form in terms of getting ribbons tensioned properly... There are a few folks / companies out there who do ribbon replacements; you could always try Googling for them and have one of them do it for you... it's not like you have a ton of money wrapped up in the mikes, so maybe you'll want to try it yourself and contact one of them if it doesn't work out - either way, best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimmy ivory Posted November 2, 2008 Members Share Posted November 2, 2008 If you break the ribbon, you won't get any signal from the mic. As far as "sag" goes, you can help prevent it by storing the mic so the ribbon is upright or vertical. You shouldn't store a ribbon horizontally. wow, i'm glad you said this. i've never heard this before. i am going to recommend to cascade that they put this in the literature they send with the mics. as for the fathead being fragile, it claims to not fry when having phantom power put on it (probably still not a good choice though and also claims a max spl of 165, both of which I believe. what is an "SD condenser"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted November 2, 2008 Members Share Posted November 2, 2008 There are a few folks / companies out there who do ribbon replacements... I know one personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 what is an "SD condenser"? Small Diaphragm Condenser. Sometimes abbreviated as "SDC". I imagine you can guess what LDC means now too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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