Members Lewis77 Posted August 20, 2009 Members Share Posted August 20, 2009 (I put same thread in other room but may get better feedback here!) By this I mean is there a mic position I can use to get more of a 1950/60's haunting sound to my vocal recording, or is there any other technique i can use???????????? I have a limited home setup... I use Marshall MX1 condenser mics (have 2) running through a tascam audio fireone.. I have a quad core 4gb ram comp ( just built myself and am sort of proud of my effort LOL) running Ableton 6 live however have just got hold of Ableton 8 with full library( not like I'll use it to its full capacity ). Nevertheless, Is there any tips anyone can give to get that haunting 50's early 60's vocal sound using that kind of gear???? Hopefully you know what I mean by that! Also will put up other post asking about the benefits of moving to 8 from 6 !!__________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Can you give us a musical example of the sound you're referring to; a specific song / recording, or even better, a specific instrument / vocal on that song that features the "haunting" sound you're referring to? It would definitely help if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 PS I suspect that the sound you're referring to is a combination of the gear they used, but even more so the rooms they recorded in, and the real reverb chambers they tended to use back then. Also, distance from the sound source to the mic tended to be greater than what is commonly used today. IOW, try moving back away from the mic further. However, this will increase the ratio of room reflections and ambiance vs direct sound from the source - which is the idea - but if the room acoustics are not very good, you're not going to hear "that sound". Run the vocals via an aux send into a predelay of some sort (50-150ms... tape machines were commonly used for this back then) and then into a chamber reverb plug-in on your DAW. Blend to taste... but again, probably "wetter" than what you'd typically hear being used on many "modern" recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lewis77 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2009 wow, Thanks man... Sort of 'early' Everly brothers/Roy Orbison sound they have in their slower songs... If you've ever heard the Chris Isaak tune 'forever blue', that is a good modern take on the sound I mean!!!!! Sort of haunting vibe to it!! Nevertheless, thanks Phil !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted August 20, 2009 Members Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think a lot of it has to do with the vibe and openness of the song, but for this, I usually like to use a combination of some sort of hall/chamber or even cathedral reverb with a fairly long pre-delay used in conjunction with an actual delay well-blended (IOW, not super loud and obvious but still present) with the music. And like Phil said, consider moving the mic back a little farther...uh, or the singer farther back from the mic! I think that moving the mic back from the singer allows the reverb and delay to "take" a little better to the sound anyway, as it's highly abnormal to have someone get right up within an inch of your ear so that you can hear the singer's tonsils clacking but then to hear really long reverb tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lewis77 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2009 cool thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members st.bede Posted August 24, 2009 Members Share Posted August 24, 2009 If you've ever heard the Chris Isaak tune 'forever blue', that is a good modern take on the sound I mean!! another idea is to see what was used and how that song was recorded...then you can start to think about how to accomplish that sound with what gear you have....(I am sorry as not to be familiar with that recording) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sugar382 Posted August 25, 2009 Members Share Posted August 25, 2009 Ohhh great question. I know the sound you're going for and I've always loved that myself. I record kinda low-fi, so I just run my vocals through some analog tape delay effects for a nice slap-back echo reminiscent of Elvis Presley's "Blue Moon". Great {censored}ing sound on that song.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted August 26, 2009 Members Share Posted August 26, 2009 wouldn't singing in the bathroom help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slider Posted August 26, 2009 Members Share Posted August 26, 2009 Sun Records recordings are a good refference for you.amps in hallways for reverb/slapback.tube and ribbon mikes for that great mic tone. I think mic placement is crucial.also you can pan a guitar or vocal, using a copy of the track. then by delaying one track you will get close to the Sun sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lewis77 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 Wow, cheers fellas, have just installed Ableton 8 so will be using that, will post to let people know how I got on, maybe get some advice on finished tune for improvements? Once again, cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted September 20, 2009 Members Share Posted September 20, 2009 This is really old now, but I can get this sound using Ableton software, though if you don't have this, I'm not sure what to suggest except to just add a deep sort of reverb to the vocals. I hear like a Nights in White Satin type vocal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members betamatt Posted October 6, 2009 Members Share Posted October 6, 2009 BTW, anyone trying to get a "retro"-sounding vocal reverb - try panning the reverb returns straight up the middle. You'd be surprised what a huge difference that makes. I was playing around once with the bootleg of the Marvin Gaye-Tammi Terrel "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" multitrack for fun, and sending the vocals to an EMT plate and wondering why I couldn't get a reverb that didn't sound too modern - till I mono-ized the reverb returns. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted October 7, 2009 Members Share Posted October 7, 2009 like a Nights in White Satin type vocal... Wow... you picked one of the my least favorite songs in the world!!! If you listen to that song [which I try to avoid whenever possible] you'll notice that the sonic and musical arrangement leave great bit wide open spaces for a "large" [quasi-omnipotent] vocal sound. The string arrangement is mainly above and below the vocal range... there are no "rectifier" guitar sounds, there is nothing occurring during the vocal that will distract you from the vocal but some "interesting" bits surrounding the vocal to keep the listener's attention when there is no singing. In terms of "audio quality" the microphone used, the pre-amplifier [which was probably a "console pre"] that was employed probably through a limiter [if it was Abbey Rd. chances are rather great it was a Fairchild 660... a unit that is exceptionally over priced and an absolute bear to maintain... I mean like $20+k overpriced... and if you can find a matched set of tube for it you're probably looking at $1,000 for 4... and their life expectancy is about 4-5000 hours... but I digress]... into a Studer tape machine. They had track limitations which caused the arrangements to be sparser, and in many times "pre-mixing" [mixing as you go along so you could free up tracks for additional overdubs]. Pre-mixing gives you fewer options at "mix time" which means you end up making fewer, and hopefully better decisions as time goes on. Recordings like this were done in professional environments with VERY expensive equipment with skilled professionals doing the work. In other words... work your balls off to try to get there... because if you come close with an MXL mic and a computer with cheap converters if you ever get on a real system you're gonna kick some serious ass!!! Think of it like you're trying to drive Formula 1 in a KIA... if you can get it around the course without the wheels falling off or flipping the car you've done pretty well. If you can improve your time on each lap then you're learning more about the craft. If you actually ever get your ass into a real race car chances are you'll be ahead of the game than someone who has only read about it in a book [but at the same time... read some books on "electronic theory", "music theory", arrangement, scoring, etc., etc., etc]. Best of luck with all you do!!! Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D Charles Posted October 8, 2009 Members Share Posted October 8, 2009 Christ, you're in Edinburgh. I visited once and just loved your city. If it's anything like England, well, tell you a specific story. I used to be married to a London girl who I met in Buckingham. She took me to this church there on off hours. They don't lock them so you can just walk in and maybe pray, but me I was clapping my hands and singing and listening to this amazing space. It was round and built of rock and just had the most unreal echo. Considering where you are, find a cool old church or any interesting building that stays open to the public and take a portable in there and get a bit away from your mic and have at it. My best advice, it's just that real spaces always blow away any reverb ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted October 8, 2009 Members Share Posted October 8, 2009 {censored}, you're in Edinburgh... have you ever met Irvine Welsh? His writing has inspired much of the music I have written and / or produced over the past decade... decade and a half. I haven't been to Edinburgh in over 20 years, and never saw the side of it that he writes about... but damn if I can't picture it and try on every project to recreate that written edge to the music that crosses my path. Inspiring writing that is so musical it is unfortunate it is limited to the printed page [and the severely edited motion picture format] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted October 8, 2009 Members Share Posted October 8, 2009 The recordings my band did in the early 60's actually used a large concrete echo chamber for the vocals at the studio we used. There was a mic hanging from the ceiling and we did all the lead and backup vocals in that echo chamber. It is a difficult task to reproduce the equipment and the environment of many of those early recordings. Sometimes the entire band was in the same room at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 8, 2009 Members Share Posted October 8, 2009 The Motown Exciting Compressor sound was used on many earley recordings. It was done by running a compressor and reverb in parallel vs series and boosting the frequencies in the 5K range. Heres how they did it. http://www.recordinginstitute.com/R2KREQ/excomp.htm http://www.recordingwebsite.com/rwtip/archive/rw68.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samtrips Posted October 8, 2009 Members Share Posted October 8, 2009 The Motown Exciting Compressor sound was used on many earley recordings. It was done by running a compressor and reverb in parallel vs series and boosting the frequencies in the 5K range. Heres how they did it.http://www.recordinginstitute.com/R2KREQ/excomp.htmhttp://www.recordingwebsite.com/rwtip/archive/rw68.html Wow, excellent articles. I'll be trying that 'Exciting Compressor' later for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 8, 2009 Members Share Posted October 8, 2009 In a DAW you can copy and paste the vocal track and use the two tracks that way. the article was based around an analog recording technique so you need to do that and use plugins for the rest. Maybe run you mix in mono till you get a great mix in mono first, then spread it out a bit in stereo afterwards. Most 50/60s tunes kept the vocals up front with the music as accompanyment at a lesser level. this made the singer sound like a star and the musicians as hired help to record the song. Later in the 60s, the music became more equal in mixes. Part of this was because of multitracking where the sound quality of instruments were first generation vs bounce downs. The other was the music change due to the onset of multitracking and ability to have separate pans and volumes for each track. Spinning 3 or for knobs on a preamp connected to mics recording all the instruments live to a single track was surely different technology than having a console with motorized faders that mixed the tracks. With digital its easier in many ways to do all of these with a mouse click. You do need to study the past and adapt the earley recording and analog techniques to get that vintage sound happening. It may sound like dumbing down but you'll find the techniques used and the translation to using them in a daw enviornment is alot tougher than most think. Back then, only the best and brightest mixed audio. Maybe only a handfull of people in the entire world could work a manual console like that riding the mic volumes to get a perfect mix without a gazillion retakes. Now theres are millions out there with DAWs trying to recapture specific sounds. few get close because thay are untrained and have no desire to study audio history and those who developed all the techniques and audio designs we take fro granted now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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