Gaga University - Lady Gaga's Lessons for the Music Business (WSJ)

[CountRobula]

Easy? Hell no, or, as they say, everyone would be doing it. Catchy pop song as one of the highest achievements in art? That's an interesting take. I really enjoy a catchy song, but... I dunno. I think there are two popular ways to come up with a hit. One is to create something that is so unique and different and great that people just fall in love with it - Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" being a good example.

 

I don't mean to sound ignorant, but I don't consider SLTS primarily as a pop song, although it certainly became popular, if you played it on the radio alongside all of the predictable pop hits of today, I don't think you could mistake it for anything, while you could mistake ANY pop hit today for any other pop hit, at least in my opinion. Having said that, maybe making a pop hit was hard back in the day, but if I really wanted to pay for the equiptment to make a 4-chord V C V C B C electronical song with a catchy urban phrase as a melody, I mean, considering that songs with hooks like "She got a donk" said over and over again are top hits, do you really think it's super hard to write that stuff? And does anyone here consider songs like that or "pa pa pa poker face" really poetic or mentally stimulating? If you like it for other reasons, it's fine, but you generally go for fast food for quick fixes. I'll look deeper for lasting music that I could grow older with and connect with on a deeper, more personal level. That's a reason why I dislike that stuff, it's too impersonal for my taste.

 

It might be hard if you can't relate to a lot of these songs nowadays, but if you've ever seen "Before The Music Dies" - they show a guy who found work with a young attractive female pop artist. He spent literally maybe a half hour tops just jamming with some chords and constructed a song that (once they played it in the style of what's hip today) sounded good enough to rival what I've been hearing on the radio. It took this random guy like a half hour to do this. The formula for success in a catchy hit nowadays is pretty obvious, and everyone CAN write successful pop tunes nowadays IF THEY HAVE a label/company/whatever backing them in promotion and marketing. That's the only factor.

 

Is my opinion/perspective really wrong? I can respect someone who doesn't listen to the music to hear anything different or unique, that's fine if they just want something to relax to or party to, but, to write a song that is universally a hit is definetly hard, but, how would it be hard if you were an average joe musician who knew the basics of making a clubby beat and could sing/rap in a decent way? You can just use auto tune to fix it up, and viola. Hit song.

 

Babe, when I met you, I knew I wouldn't foget you

Eyes like diamonds with rhinetone lining your panties

And when you look at me with those bedroom eyes it makes me antsy

You don't gotta be fancy, you could even be underaged and i'll just get chris hansy

 

There you go. A typical verse in your average pop song nowadays, just came up with it. I probably could've been more serious, but hey. Took me less than 20 seconds to come up with that. There are countless songs with lyrics like that. Some are even worse. Modern mainstream hip hop "artists" who're supposed to be word smiths have a clumsier vocab than that.

[Matximus]

 

Easy? Hell no, or, as they say, everyone would be doing it. Catchy pop song as one of the highest achievements in art? That's an interesting take. I really enjoy a catchy song, but... I dunno. I think there are two popular ways to come up with a hit. One is to create something that is so unique and different and great that people just fall in love with it - Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" being a good example. Another way is to manufacture it by calculating exactly what flavor the general public wants at the time and essentially giving the public exactly what they want - Black Eyed Peas "I Gotta Feeling" being a good example of that. It is very very difficult to do either one. It is also very very difficult to write a clever jingle for an ad. To me, the calculated pop stuff has more in common with jingle writing. They're very similar - you want to write something very catchy and very popular that will appeal to a great number of people. So if you put it up there as a high artistic achievement, you might have to put jingle writing up there, too. And the poster child for both is Barry Manilow. He wrote some of the most successful jingles ever, and he also wrote some of the top selling pop songs. We listen to him now and cringe. Actually I listened to him in the 70's and cringed, but that was pop music back then.

 

 

 

You know, I knew I opened myself up to the "Jingle" lament as soon as I wrote that last post about hit songs being high art. I'm not surprised you brought it up RMC.

 

I have a few thoughts.

 

Sure, it's fair to say hit songs have a lot in common with jingles, particularly to those with discerning ears. But here's the rub: how do you write a song that is as catchy as a jingle but isn't, you know, technically a jingle? People gravitate toward the familiar; but we want to pretend we're not being spoon-fed the same familiar {censored}. That is where the art is.

 

And Teen Spirit was shamelessly commercial, both in its conception and execution. Kurt Cobain was a sharp student of successful popcraft and an incredibly shrewd and driven musician. He got his panties in a bunch when his record started flying off the shelves; But he desperately wanted to be successfull. When he got a major record deal he did what any good artist should do: He delivered catchy hits. TS was his attempt at the ultimate pop song. He is on record saying this multiple times.

 

Sure, Teen Spirit's lyrics are kinda gnarly and the quiet/loud thing was kind of new at the time, but he's simply spoon-feeding the masses the same familiar {censored} in a clever way.

 

And I love him for it!!! It's the same thing Gaga is doing with Poker Face.

 

Which brings us to your point about creating hits intentionally or serenditously. Hits rarely happen by accident. Very rarely. They almost always tend to be delivered by aggressive entertainers bringing their A game.

And even then, it's hit or miss for these top-flight pros.

 

Which is another reason I consider them high art.

 

Finally, yeah: Hit songs ARE jingles, in that, yeah, they're both advertising. Duh. I mean, what is a hit song other than an advertisement for an artist's record or concert? They're also designed to keep listeners glued The only difference between them is the product being sold. Pop Pop Fizz Fizz: Alka Seltzer. P-P-P-Poker Face: Lady Gaga. Bottom line: Gimmie some money.

 

And don't even get me started on the fact that a buncha classic hits of the Baby Boomer era are today used to sell computers and cars and other {censored} peddled in TV commercials. THEY ARE JINGLES.

[Subby33]

Lady gaga is the best thing to happen to pop music in over 15 years. And whether u like her or not, she is talented in ways that most people can only dream to be.

 

Songwriting

singing

fashion

attenion grabbing

dancing

 

It's actually no wonder she is so famous. She is the complete package. She is the first pop artist indie kids can listen to and it not be a guilty pleasure. Her fans are hipsters, gays, gangsters, soccer moms, teenagers, etc etc etc.

 

Most people who hate her are jealous.

[richardmac]

 

Most people who hate her are jealous.

 

 

Of her success? That's always going to happen to people on top. We love to build people up and then we love it when they fall. Another thing - Musicians and especially songwriters love to bash the work they hear on the radio. Her music made it and there's didn't.

 

As for the rest of your love fest, here's my take. There are thousands of vocalists as good as she is or better. This is not a knock on her - she's got a good voice - it's just that there are thousands of great singers out there. Go to any music college and listen to the vocal majors there, for a start. As for songwriting, it's very difficult to say how much is her. That is true with ALL pop stars who write their own music. She wrote "Just Dance." But she wrote it with her producer. And by the time the final record hit there's no telling how many people tweaked it. As for dancing, see vocals. As for fashion and attention grabbing, those are where she is outperforming everyone else right now. But let's not pretend this is all her and she doesn't have major league marketing talent behind her.

 

So... the next Madonna? Why not? She's better looking and has a better voice. All she has to do, much like Madonna, is continue to find brilliant pop people to co-write with and it's possible, sure. I could just as easily see people getting bored with her by album 3. Doesn't matter to me. It'd be good if she could keep cranking out catchy songs. I liked "Just Dance." Don't much like her other songs.

[richardmac]

 

Finally, yeah: Hit songs ARE jingles, in that, yeah, they're both advertising. Duh.

 

 

Why do you have to be such a smartass? I mean, that sounds like a 5th grader talking. You made some good points in your post. Stick to the good points.

[CountRobula]

Eh, I just don't like her. If she made music that interested me, I'd have no reason not to like her, but her music isn't anything special to me. I'm not the ultimate judge of music, I just find her to be the next britney spears dressed up like a space man. I'm not jealous, if I wrote songs like her just to get on the radio, I'd feel like I wasn't being true to myself, if that's believable. I'd rather get big by writing songs in a genre that may not be as popular or marketable, but I could still find success. My opinion has nothing to do with jealousy, I guess I just have to learn to ignore the people who claim that average-joe X is the next coming of christ when all I hear is unoriginally regurgitated pop/rock/punk/whatever.

 

Everything IS re-hashed to an extent, I can agree with that, but it's usually done in a unique way. That's not to say that Nirvana sounds anything like stuff before it, they just expanded on sounds and used influences to make something unique. And there's a hundred ways to write a song about a single topic. You could look at two songs that are seemingly 100% different in melody, rhythm, structure, tempo about the same exact thing written from a different, fresh perspective, and it's genuinely different, not an illusion.

 

Hey, if she continues to be successful, that's fine, I'm glad for her, but I don't have to respect her artistically when I don't hear anything genuinely artistic or daringly new in her music but someone is claiming so with invalid points.

 

I probably look retarded and angry for no reason, so I'm gonna just shut up. I really don't have some huge issue with any pop artist, but I don't see anything particularly special about any one pop artist. I think I only said something in the first place because the point of this thread was to show us how she's amazing because she worked the pop industry like it was a prostitute, but she could be a great businesswoman and her music'll still be the same. If someone can identify a song as "mindless, easy fun" then it's just that. It's not some amazing work of art, it's something I'd get plastered to with my buddies, and I have no problem with that, but I don't consider her a musical genius or the savior of present music.

[Poker99]

Most people who hate her are jealous.

 

That's such an easy answer.

 

There are lots of artists that are popular and that I love. LG is not one of them. I think we are free to dislike something even if its popular without being jealous.

 

Whether or not she is the most popular artists in the world is irrevelant about its quality to me, it won't make me love/hate her. I think her music is crap.

 

I don't mind her being popular, the masses need to be spoonfed with some crap that is everywhere, that is easy on the ears and the eyes. She is a big success I'll give you that, its the whole package that is a success.

 

How much of it is because of her music and really comes from herself, dunno...

[BlueStrat]

 

Most people who hate her are jealous.

 

 

Please. When you say something like that, you sound like you're about 14.

 

I think it's more a case of being bewildered by it all. When I look at her, I just think "WTF?" Decent singer, decent dancer, not bad looking, outrageous outfits, mediocre songs. I don't see anythingt that warrants the attention she gets.

 

Then again, some people are "song people" and some are "personality people". LGG is a whole package deal-not strong on any one point really, but when you put it all together, there's somethin there. Me, I'm a song guy. I think songs ought to stand on their own regardless of who is performing them. And I can't think of a single one by LGG that will be around even 5 years from now.

 

That doesn't make people like me wrong, or 'jealous', or anything of the sort. Nor does it make you wrong for liking her.

[Thrustin]

Good enough for Faith No More.

[YOUTUBE]xBE3CTcNa8I[/YOUTUBE]

[sabriel9v]

This entire thread = EPIC FAIL

[kurdy]

 

I think it's more a case of being bewildered by it all. When I look at her, I just think "WTF?" Decent singer, decent dancer, not bad looking, outrageous outfits, mediocre songs. I don't see anythingt that warrants the attention she gets. Then again, some people are "song people" and some are "personality people". LGG is a whole package deal-not strong on any one point really, but when you put it all together, there's somethin there. Me, I'm a song guy. I think songs ought to stand on their own regardless of who is performing them. And I can't think of a single one by LGG that will be around even 5 years from now. That doesn't make people like me wrong, or 'jealous', or anything of the sort. Nor does it make you wrong for liking her.

 

 

Bewildered or not, I think you hit the nail on the head. We live in a time where you don't even need talent to be famous, just a lack of shame. It's a personality-driven culture. Take that new reality show Jersey Shore, for example. It's a show that follows around a group of really shallow, dumb, ignorant people--and right now they're all riding high on superstardom (although how long that will last is anybody's guess). I've never watched an episode, yet I see their faces everywhere, in magazines, on talk-shows, on the internet, etc, and hear more about them than I care to know. Unfortunately, the new rule is: get on TV, be outrageous, and you'll be a star. So in that sense, we live in the perfect time for an artist like Lady Gaga. And I don't think she's even the most offensive example. Not even close. What I think will help her out in the long run is that at least she does have a decent amount of musical talent. She studied music. She can sing, write and play. So at least when the media moves on from talking about her outfits, she'll have those abilities to carry her on. Certainly isn't any worse than Madonna, and look how long she's lasted.

[Zietto]

That's such an easy answer. There are lots of artists that are popular and that I love. LG is not one of them. I think we are free to dislike something even if its popular without being jealous. Whether or not she is the most popular artists in the world is irrevelant about its quality to me, it won't make me love/hate her. I think her music is crap. I don't mind her being popular, the masses need to be spoonfed with some crap that is everywhere, that is easy on the ears and the eyes. She is a big success I'll give you that, its the whole package that is a success. How much of it is because of her music and really comes from herself, dunno...

 

How can you be jealous of Lady gaga or any pop artists since the '80s? Nobody is jealous because everybody is better than her as a musician. The problem is that since the mp3 downloading explosion, record companies are not taking risks anymore, they just want quick easy cash from teenagers. The good musicians are completely banned from record companies now. So nothing against Lady Gaga, nobody hates her, but now who is going to produce the real musicians in this mess? Who is going to be the next Jimi Hendrix, the next Kate Bush, or the next Steve Walsh (hope you know him...)??

[Thrustin]

 

How can you be jealous of Lady gaga or any pop artists since the '80s? Nobody is jealous because everybody is better than her as a musician. The problem is that since the mp3 downloading explosion, record companies are not taking risks anymore, they just want quick easy cash from teenagers. The good musicians are completely banned from record companies now. So nothing against Lady Gaga, nobody hates her, but now who is going to produce the real musicians in this mess? Who is going to be the next Jimi Hendrix, the next Kate Bush, or the next Steve Walsh (hope you know him...)??

 

 

Why would studios want to deal with uppity musicians who don't care for pop music?

 

Seriously though, she a fine musician. I'm not a pop music fan, but I can recognize that she has talent. She can play the piano and sing and dance and entertain as well as anybody in the pop music realm; present and past.

 

I know you have a lot invested in your craft, but you might try being a little more receptive to things outside of your comfort zone.

[caeman]

I'm not a fan, or listen to her music. But, more power to her. She is apparently having fun, that is why many of us are in music, yes? To have fun and enjoy making musical sounds?

[CountRobula]

This thread wasn't SUCH an epic fail, at least it was civil, hmm?

 

I pretty much agree with Blue and Zietto - It's what I was trying to say, and maybe I tried too hard and ended up saying it the wrong way anyway. Sorry to anyone who I might've aggravated. It's not such a big deal anyway, if everyone was the same, the world would be a pretty boring place..

[BlueStrat]

 

Why would studios want to deal with uppity musicians who don't care for pop music?

Is that what it is-not caring for pop music makes you somehow 'uppity'? Is everything a black and white proposition for you?

 

 

I know you have a lot invested in your craft, but you might try being a little more receptive to things outside of your comfort zone.

I like lots of things. But a LGG record isn't going to add one thing to my enjoyment of music, my style, my education or my repertoire. Glad you like her, but for me it's complete waste of time.

[Blackwatch]

 

Blackwatch you clearly get it. And that's cool. Me - and a lot of people - come at music from the other way. I want music that is as mindlessly pleasing as possible. And I think that the creation of a catchy popular song is one of the highest achievements in art. Gaga and her people shaping up to be m

 

 

 

I'm glad you think I get it...

 

I gotta tell some of the younger ones here that you have a terrible fate coming your way. After years of feeling Hip and with it you're going to literally wake up one day and find that you've gotten horribly older and quite out if it. The older guys here that you're baiting are trying to tell you something that you probably have no basis for understanding if you're still relatively young

 

And Matx...you have every right to like what you want and to be entertained anyway you please.

 

But you know what they say....eating cotton candy every day will rot your teeth. You have to nourish yourself every now and then....

 

But I'm sure you already know that......

[CountRobula]

I'm not missing out on much, I hear it indirectly whenever I'm near a radio or in the car. I get my indirect "LGG fix" every darn day.. :'(

[Subby33]

I wasn't going to respond anymore to this thread, because it seems like a lot of back and forth, but I just want to respond to some of the different points in this thread.

 

It seems that people think, just because I think Lady GaGa is a good artist, that it somehow means that I have no taste in music. I listen to everything from The Beatles, to Jimi, to Led Zeppelin, to Bobby Caldwell, to Tupac, to The Cure, The Smiths, Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Michael Jackson, etc etc etc, the list goes on.

 

Whats funny, is I find people who are unwilling to listen to pop music, are usually the most close minded and stunted artists I meet. They wont give credit to anything that isn't either old school, or alternative underground (as if the underground really even exists anymore).

 

With that said. Lady Gaga is an artist in the full scope of the word. Is she partly manufactured? Of course she is, but the girl was not scooped up by a record label and told what to do. She has been working since she was 14 years old, writing her songs, and performing them live. She used to write more melodic "Norah Jones" type songs, but I have a feeling she just realized this wasn't working. Nothing stood out.

 

So she delved into pop music, and its where the girl shines. I really want to respond to people who say she's only famous and liked because she is a spectacle. Nothing further could be from the truth. Have you even listened to a full record? Her last album "The Fame" had its share of duds. It was definitely a singles record . . . but have you heard the EP "The Fame Monster"?

 

If any of you are fans of Depeche Mode, New Order, any good 80's dance music . . . this album is pretty damn awesome. I also find it funny people think she's a sell out. You do realize dance music doesn't chart well, and thats all this girl does. Plus, her new album is all euro dance, which never sees the light of day in the US. Yet she still does it, because its the music she wants to create.

 

Lets be for real. If GaGa was a sell out, and as manufactured as you all claim her to be, she would not be doing anything like she is doing right now. This girl is playing all her cards perfectly. I have no seen an entertainer do that for years.

 

Also, somebody responded to my last post saying she can sing, dance, play piano, etc mediocre. Well, I guess thats where a lot of people on this forum and I disagree. You dont need to be the best at any instrument, at least if the songs are there, and your vision is executed. She is very average at alot of things, but she combines many strengths to give you a 100% polished product.

 

Please dont think that I'm in the dark. The girl has a lot of people working for her, but if you've seen her go from nowhere , to the fame she has now, this girl has worked for her status. She is not throw away trash as so many people seem to think.

 

Just cuz its not Jimmy Page on guitar or The Beatles writing the songs, or equivalent, doesn't make another type of music trash.

 

I dont listen to Hip/Hop, but I can respect the greats in that genre too.

 

[Subby33]

 

I gotta tell some of the younger ones here that you have a terrible fate coming your way. After years of feeling Hip and with it you're going to literally wake up one day and find that you've gotten horribly older and quite out if it. The older guys here that you're baiting are trying to tell you something that you probably have no basis for understanding if you're still relatively young

 

 

Age-ism is lame.

 

There are plenty of young people who respect all different types of music, and there are plenty of 50 year old people on here who only want to play the blues and nothing else.

 

Respect for variety of music is not based on age. Neither is the ability to recognize substance.

[Poker99]

Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta

 

If she kept her real name no way she would be as big. lol

[Poker99]

Last week at the Digital Music Summit, Vevo announced that 25% of the 30 million streams that it delivers on average each day in the US are Lady GaGa videos.

 

Its all about the music!

[flatfinger]

There is only one way that we would ever really know if Lady G is just a flash in the pan .... the test of time ... So we have to all agree to meet back here at HC in thirty or forty years and see if any of her songs are still on the radar or if anyone has covered them ( or if she's totally forgotten or doing physic stuff commercials on TV to make a buck) .

 

..........See ya then................

[daddymack]

okay...great...I have closed this thread, and now I have a lot of reading to do.

 

Can't we all just get along?

 

16 posts removed...one temp banning...and an e-mail...you guys are killing me...I got a business to run here...

[ChrisAlgoo]

OP - thanks for posting this article, it was damn interesting, and there's probably something to be learned there. Gaga may not be the finest of musicians, but she's a damn good entertainer.