Gaga University - Lady Gaga's Lessons for the Music Business (WSJ)

[Blackwatch]

Age-ism is lame. There are plenty of young people who respect all different types of music, and there are plenty of 50 year old people on here who only want to play the blues and nothing else. Respect for variety of music is not based on age. Neither is the ability to recognize substance.

 

 

Yes Subby... in a perfect world...

 

 

Ageism is lame...and thought I might have been a bit too general, what I said is also seeped in the truth. There are exceptions to every rule and granted some people just 'get it" from the very beginning, most don't. And that's why some of the acts that are so popular are just that, they are of that generation.

 

My objection came from what I saw as some of the younger people here trying to tell some of the older people here just how good Lady Gaga was and I was trying to enlighten them as to why some of the older people could give a {censored}. IMO Lady Gaga is the latest fad, I'm not saying she's not good I'm saying "Yawn". Been there have that t-shirt.

[CountRobula]

I happen to not care for Gaga, and I'm not an older person. I'm PART of this generation, It's not a matter of me not "getting" her, I "get" her a little too well while having listened to a few song. I know plenty of kids my age who feel the same way, even kids who don't really know much music outside of the radio. And I listen to all kinds of music from all different genres. Doesn't mean I'm close minded for not liking "pop" music of today..

Pop music isn't a single genre anyway, it's a corporate answer for every genre out there. I don't only like underground or alternative music, but most of the pop music today is too synthetic in a poorly done way. I don't dislike it because of sounding synthetic, because even that could be done well..

I'm not getting into WHY I dislike it. Simply giving another point of view other than "everyone who doesn't like lady gaga is obviously a 45 year old balding virgin with no friends who can't see teh TR00TH like us TR00 BROS" Hopefully this post doesn't translate into anything really negative.

I'm not 45 yet, suckers. ... Or balding..

[kurdy]

Some interesting quotes I found from her bio:

"It’s not just about the music. It’s about the performance, the attitude, the look; it’s everything. And, that is where I live as an artist and that is what I want to accomplish.”

“My goal as an artist is to funnel a pop record to a world in a very interesting way…I almost want to trick people into hanging with something that is really cool with a pop song. It’s almost like the spoonful of sugar and I’m the medicine.”

I would suspect that her motivations are not as “artistic” as she claims them to be, but her point is made. She basically flat-out admits it isn’t just about the music. It’s very much a part of the overall package, and that’s what people are responding to. It’s hard for musicians to understand that most people don’t looking for meaning or poetry in music. They want to be entertained. If you give them that spoonful of sugar, then maybe they’ll stick around for the “medicine”.

I consider my mindset to be sort of half-way between that of a musician and the average music listener. I don’t mind music that makes me think or expands my horizons—however, the music damn well better be catchy too. If it doesn’t have a certain pop element to it, I don’t care how “clever” it is—I probably won’t be interested. So, do I think Lady Gaga's music is great? No. But I can understand the appeal of it. Also, Lady Gaga’s still new. There’s a possibility, once she’s been around a few years, she’ll eventually explore more adventurous musical territory, but it isn’t something a new artist would typically do right out of the gate. Especially if they have any aspirations of getting played on the radio.

[CountRobula]

I don't like boring music either, but most of the thought-provoking music that I find is catchy with unique (less poppy sounding) melodies and sounds.

There's two types of pop, then. Pop could be used to refer to the radio-controlled watered down versions of hip hop, rock, electronica, ect. while the envelope pushers who progress the genres get copied from in a {censored}ty way.

Pop could also mean popular, since David Bowie or Nirvana could both be considered such (yet they don't sound like guido jersey shore techno with guitars or pianos thrown in for the hell of it), both were mentioned in this thread at some point, sound NOTHING like Lady Gaga, or any pop artists on the radio nowadays, and they'd both stand out like sore thumbs on the radio, simply because everything follows the same strict predictable formula. These two artists are not the only ones, there are thousands of other artists who are just as unique and radio-worthy if you actually like listening to different stuff instead of dismissing everything not on the radio as "{censored}" because they're not on some list/hall of fame that was predetermined by the same corps that own them in the first place.

And, there are plenty of "mindless" artists who have little intellect in their music - just mindless fun, catchy stuff, have a similar vibe (but their own unique sound, not a generic radio sound) and could easily be on the radio.

At the end of the day, depending on what you're looking for, it isn't about the music. That was my point all along, regardless of wether or not anyone actually adressed my posts in a calm, collected, factual manner. If the MUSIC doesn't matter to you, then sure, gaga's fine, she's entertaining, the music isn't her biggest asset, she's an eccentric star.

But if it's the music you're looking for, you could find much better music elsewhere that sounds pleasant with whatever vibe you want. (Mindless music is made in the "underground" too, although I don't think there is really some kind of underground. It's just music that is independent because companies won't invest in them because they're different. They're not rebelling, they'd probably work with a label if they didn't dick them over, instead they play to their own crowds and make money without being in the limelight, which should be fine, as they're musicians, not celebrities.

[BlueStrat]

 

I would suspect that her motivations are not as “artistic” as she claims them to be, but her point is made. She basically flat-out admits it isn’t just about the music. It’s very much a part of the overall package, and that’s what people are responding to. It’s hard for musicians to understand that most people don’t looking for meaning or poetry in music. They want to be entertained. If you give them that spoonful of sugar, then maybe they’ll stick around for the “medicine”.

They might, but probably not. For one thing, people interested in art generally aren't drawn to popular spectacle. And any art that may lie within gets overshadowed by the kitsch.

 

Ever hear of Charro? Back in the 60s and 70s, she was a Latin hottie with big hooters that played the dumb broad with the cute accent. Lots of people know that she is an accomplished flamenco and Spanish classical guitarist but back then most didn't care. Her persona had already been cast and set in stone. She was never really been taken seriously by the public. Now, she does her ditz schtick but plays as well.

 

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[Thrustin]

How does an accomplished Flamenco guitarist become a household name? Ask Charro. Brilliant!

[BlueStrat]

 

How does an accomplished Flamenco guitarist become a household name? Ask Charro. Brilliant!

 

Except I'd bet if you polled a crowd of people who had heard of her at all, almost none of them would know she played guitar. Which is what I meant by the schtick overshadowing the art.

 

As a female, she could have been regarded as another Segovia- there are almost no female classical guitar players that are any good. She opted for popularity instead. Nothing wrong with that, but I would have regarded her much higher had she opted to become a serious artist rather than a ditz with a guitar.

 

Diffrent strokes!

 

Are you releasing any albums? Have you shopped your songs at all? Got anything on itunes etc?

[CountRobula]

That's part of what I meant to say, Blue. I don't care for shtick, I want to be entertained by the music, not dancing and a light show and all of that {censored}. Save that for a live show (and instead of dancing, just go crazy) since I'm only listening to the recordings right now.

Lady Gaga is great, depending on what you're looking for, s'all I'm saying.

[Thrustin]

Are you releasing any albums? Have you shopped your songs at all? Got anything on itunes etc?

Me?

I don't have anything official yet, and I don't know how to shop a song. I have assembled a live band to play those song though. We have begun gigging. I'll take it from there. Let me know if you want mp3's. I'll send you a link to the motherload. You can have 'em all for free.

[vanlatte]

Who left the door open in here, now we have a Thrustin infestation.

[Kaiborg]

there are almost no female classical guitar players that are any good

 

 

That's what I thought too, until I saw this

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

 

She's 19 now, I think.

[Thrustin]

Who left the door open in here, now we have a Thrustin infestation.

Shhh...they like me here.

[BlueStrat]

Shhh...they like me here.

 

 

 

 

[paulz]

As a female, she could have been regarded as another Segovia- there are almost no female classical guitar players that are any good.

 

There are actually a lot. I think a lot of gifted players just go under the radar in that field and the popular public thinks in (I think) almost exclusively Spanish style.

 

I {censored} you not, I've met even popular style guitar players that name Segovia..but don't know Parkening!

 

 

I think Liona Boyd is a bit of a character a, then you've got Muriel Andersen (she's also quite competent crossover), Lily Afshar, Martha Masters, Ana Vidovic, Li Jie is IMO a technical monster (not to say she lacks expression, just that she's got beautiful technique)

 

 

It's a little bit like sitar for those who don't listen to sitar...you get "Ravi Shankar" and that's about it

[CountRobula]

Shhh...they like me here.

 

 

Could you send me something to listen to? :poke:

[Thrustin]

Could you send me something to listen to? :poke:

 

 

Have at it.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=cd1a8ff1db5b0df25a3d773badf214304238c1a05f58b1ba9b20786b9a6e1ed0

 

Do what you want, but tell 'em Billy did it.

[vanlatte]

Shhh...they like me here.

 

 

This too shall pass.

[Asmodaus]

I like her. She is a marketing genius, along with some luck. And as a bonus she did i herself and not a prefabricated band produced by some studio exec. We could all learn from her marketing, that is if you like money and an audience.

[BlueStrat]

 

I like her. She is a marketing genius, along with some luck. And as a bonus she did i herself and not a prefabricated band produced by some studio exec. We could all learn from her marketing, that is if you like money and an audience.

 

Did it herself? hardly.

 

2005–2007: Career beginnings

 

Germanotta had initially signed with Def Jam Recordings at the age of 19 after Island Def Jam Music Group Chairman and CEO L. A. Reid heard her singing down the hallway from his office. After three months, she was dropped from Def Jam,[12] although at the same time, her former management company introduced her to songwriter and producer RedOne, whom they also managed.[13] The first song she produced together with RedOne was "Boys Boys Boys",[13] a mash-up inspired by Mötley Crüe's "Girls, Girls, Girls" and AC/DC's "T.N.T."[14] She moved out of her parents' house and started performing downtown in the Lower East Side club scene, with bands Mackin Pulsifer and SGBand.[15] Soon after she began taking drugs and performing at burlesque shows.[1] She said her father "just didn't understand it", and that he could not look at her for several months.[1][14] Music producer Rob Fusari, who helped her write some of her earlier songs, compared her vocal style to that of Freddie Mercury. Fusari helped create the moniker Gaga, after the Queen song "Radio Ga Ga".

Throughout 2007, she collaborated with performance artist Lady Starlight, who helped her create her onstage fashions.[17] The pair began playing gigs at downtown club venues like the Mercury Lounge, The Bitter End, and the Rockwood Music Hall,[18] with their live performance art piece known as "Lady Gaga and the Starlight Revue".[19] Billed as "The Ultimate Pop Burlesque Rockshow",[20] their act was a low-fi tribute to 1970s variety acts.[21] In August 2007, she and Lady Starlight were invited to play at the American Lollapalooza music festival.[22] The show was critically acclaimed, and their performance received highly positive reviews.[6][18] Having initially focused on avant-garde, and electronic dance music, Lady Gaga found her musical niche when she began to incorporate pop melodies and the vintage glam rock of David Bowie and Queen into the mix.[23] During this time she was featured on a couple of songs in a two-CD audio book that was done to go along with the children's book The Portal in the Park by Cricket Casey. She performed with Melle Mel on the songs "World Family Tree" and "The Fountain of Truth".[24]

Rob Fusari sent songs he produced with her to his friend, producer and record executive Vincent Herbert.[25] Herbert was quick to sign her to his label Streamline Records, an imprint of Interscope Records, upon its establishment in 2007.[26] She has credited Herbert as the man who discovered her, while adding that "I really feel like we made pop history, and we're gonna keep going".[25] Having already served as an apprentice songwriter under an internship at Famous Music Publishing, which was later acquired by Sony/ATV Music Publishing, she subsequently struck a music publishing deal with Sony/ATV.[27] As a result, she was hired to write songs for Britney Spears, as well as being commissioned by Interscope to write for labelmates New Kids on the Block, Fergie, and the Pussycat Dolls.[27] While she was writing at Interscope, singer-songwriter Akon recognized her vocal abilities during her singing of a reference vocal for one of his tracks in studio.[28] He then convinced Interscope-Geffen-A&M Chairman and CEO Jimmy Iovine to form a joint deal by having her also sign with his own label, Kon Live Distribution,[12] and would later call her his "franchise player."[29] She pursued her collaboration with RedOne by working with him in the studio for a week on her debut album,[27] spawning the debut international hit singles "Just Dance" and "Poker Face". She also joined the roster of Cherrytree Records, an Interscope imprint established by producer and songwriter Martin Kierszenbaum, after co-writing four songs with Kierszenbaum including the single "Eh, Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)".[27]

[Asmodaus]

 

 

 

Well, yeah, she worked. No one does it alone. Connections are the first rule of Marketing. Find a successful band that hasn't. What I mean was she didn't come prefab like Boyz to men or fabrication like Hannah Montana. Lady Gaga really is that nutty and performed her ass off anywhere she could with anyone she could. To me that's respectful as a performer.

I have a feeling you'll still disagree with me, that's alright we just see her differently.

[BlueStrat]

Well, yeah, she worked. No one does it alone. Connections are the first rule of Marketing. Find a successful band that hasn't. What I mean was she didn't come prefab like Boyz to men or fabrication like Hannah Montana. Lady Gaga really is that nutty and performed her ass off anywhere she could with anyone she could. To me that's respectful as a performer. I have a feeling you'll still disagree with me, that's alright we just see her differently.

 

 

 

Actually, I don't disagree with you. Still don't like her or her schtick, but I don't begrudge anyone success in this current business climate. I just wanted to clear it up that she didn't do it on her own. Nothing wrong with getting help.

[Asmodaus]

Actually, I don't disagree with you. Still don't like her or her schtick, but I don't begrudge anyone success in this current business climate. I just wanted to clear it up that she didn't do it on her own. Nothing wrong with getting help.

I just saw that now she's getting sued by one of the people that helped her.

[BlueStrat]

I just saw that now she's getting sued by one of the people that helped her.

Nothing gets freeloader cockroaches out of the woodwork like success!

[crowguitar]

How does an accomplished Flamenco guitarist become a household name? Ask Charro. Brilliant!

 

 

and Charo had to do that by running around half naked, acting like she was an imbecile (which she wasnt) and giving into turning herself into a Hispanic stereotype.

 

I'm sure for all her success, she wishes she couldve done it differently. Instead of still having to do her "Cootchy Cootchy" catchphrase any time u see her on TV or commercials, and just couldve been taken seriously as a musician.

[MartinC]

How does an accomplished Flamenco guitarist become a household name? Ask Charro. Brilliant!

 

 

Actually, while a decent guitarist, nobody that is into flamenco considers her "accomplished" in flamenco. The malaguena she plays is actually a classical piece by Ernesto Lecuona, a Cuban composer. It is based on the flamenco malaguenas, which are song forms in flamenco. Most audiences recognize it as flamenco, but it is not. Nevertheless, many flamenco guitarists have performed and recorded it because of it's popularity.

 

Flamenco guitarists are judged mostly by their accompaniment skillls : what important singers have they played for? What important dancers? Only after doing that are their solos, which are created by them, even considered.

 

Charo, to the best of my knowledge has never done that in well known professional circles, or even in her playing shown the ability to do that. But I'd stop short of saying she can't , because I don't know. She does have some flamenco technique, but it is weak compared to the pros even of her generation.

 

Certainly, she has become more known worldwide, more popular, and probably more wealthy than most any flamenco guitarist. Although Paco de Lucia, and now, Vicente Amigo, have been very popular and are among the greats.

 

You tube Tomatito if your interested, and you'll see the incredible gulf between what she does and what is considered great flamenco playing.

 

The sad fact is that many guitarists outside Spain use the word flamenco to sell or describe their music, or even worse, themselves, without bothering to learn how to play actual flamenco. Ottmar Liebert, Benise, and scores of others lead the charge, in some cases claiming they are innovating, all the while being incompetent in the actual art they claim to be improving.

 

It is a sad joke that the popularity of watered down non flamenco has become known as actual flamenco to vast numbers of folks due to the mis labling of the music of wishful guitarists. About the worst thing that can happen to an actual flamenco guitarist is to be asked if they can play some Gipsy Kings, Ottmar Liebert, or heaven forbid, Benise music. While I'd stop short of describing Charo as one of these phonies, her being voted best flamenco guitarist by the readers of Guitar Player mag years ago shows just how little most guitarists, much less the general public, know or care about flamenco.