Your suggestions on new guitar

philbo · December 12, 2005

I'd like to get your input on a new guitar & maybe some extra goodies. I've got about $2800 to play with...

I already have a bass, a 70's Ovation 12-string w/ piezos in the bridge, a Strat, a Carvin Cobalt Acoustic/Electric, and a nylon-string classical guitar.

The new guitar would be used for both gigging and recording, though primarily recording.

My basic preferences for guitar: Minimum 24.5 inch scale, Minimum 12" fretboard radius, graphite nut, no whammy bar (I've never ever seen one that stays in tune, in 41 years of playing).

Ideally I'd like to find an acoustic / electric with electric action, but have also been considering electric types. I really do want a good acoustic sound for live work, plus maximum versatility for recording work.

Stuff I was looking carefully at:

1) Godin guitar with the 13-pin synth output + magnetic pickups, plus maybe getting a Roland VG-88 pedal. I was interested in the nylon string model, but also looked quite a bit at the electrics.

2) Same as above, except a Brian Moore electric in place of the Godin

3) A DIY option: A new Line 6 Variax, maybe the Model 600, gutted for it's electronics, which would be installed into a Warmoth Strat body & neck. Plus maybe a Line 6 PodXT pedal to go with it.

Some pros & cons:

Godin:

After checking with 3 different area music stores listed as dealers on Godins web page, none of them claim to be actual dealers. One said they'd had lots of trouble with Godin never returning guitars sent there for repair and so quit working with them. Haven't been able to find any corroboration for this claim on the internet (you'd think SOMEBODY would post to bitch about it if it were really happening, no?) At any rate, it looks like I'd have to drive to Chicago (6 hour drive), at a minimum, if I want to play one before buying.

Brian Moore:

Don't know a lot about them; guitars are made in China, but everything I can find to read about them indicates the quality is pretty good. No stores around here has any that I've been able to find.

Variax/Warmoth combo:

I've heard this can be a killer live electric, but the simulations are limited for recording use, in some peoples opinion. Also, no stores around here seems to have any Variax stuff.

If anybody has input on these or maybe some other suggestions, I'd appreciate your input.

Thanx..

Kiwiburger · December 12, 2005

Parker Fly? Sound and cosmetics are all highly personal - you might hate what I like.

Personally, I would recommed you keep you gigging and recording guitars very seperate. My thoughts are:

Gigging - appearance and brand names are everything. Versatility second. Actual recorded tone is the least of your worries. A Variax might be ok if you like the look of them.

Recording - appearance and brand name is nothing. Is the Framus Hootenanny a trendy guitar? No - because it's small and ugly and has a stupid name, but the greatest band on earth made some of the greatest music of all time with one. Recorded tone is everything, and character tones don't come from "versatile" guitars.

My 2 cents.

amplayer · December 12, 2005

Given what you have described, I think the Taylor T5 would meet your needs perfectly:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/t5/feature/Models.aspx?model=standard

Phil O'Keefe · December 12, 2005

Originally posted by amplayer

Given what you have described, I think the Taylor T5 would meet your needs perfectly:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/t5/feature/Models.aspx?model=standard

+1.

That's exactly what I thought of as I was reading the post.

deanmass · December 13, 2005

Godin....

That is my next guitar. I have not read anything negative about them, know people who have owned and played them, etc.

The Parker Fly was another, but, thhey are so odd looking and super light, many people cannot get used to them.

I also think the Godins have incredible bang per buck. The Taylor looks nice, but I have found Taylors to be incredibly spotty quality wise.

Hell, I'd bet with a bit of shopping, you could get a Variax AND a Godin for $2800.

philbo · December 13, 2005

To all:

Thanks for the replies so far. The Parker Fly is indeed one I've also thought about. I love the ones I've had a chance to play.

Along similar lines, I was looking at a Steinberger as well.

Dean:

While I probably could get a Godin and a Variax, the idea wasn't necessarily to spend all the dough, but to get a guitar I would be happy to live with over the long haul.

Kiwi:

Framus Hootenanny? What an awesome name!

Your point is well taken, though. It'd be ideal to have something totally beautiful sounding to use just for recording.... I'd just like to get that same sound (or somewhat close to it) for live work.

I can't imagine anybody in the audience saying my show sucked because my guitar wasn't the right make/model or it wasn't book-matched zebra wood or whatever. But, then again, I play live primarily for other musicians, at an open-mic / open-jam held monthly at an obscure bar in an even more obscure village.... (my time of playing live in cover bands ended when the '80s began).

To Phil & Amplayer:

Haven't ever tried a Taylor. From what Dean says, it sounds like maybe I'd better get one I can sit down and play with for an hour or two... Next time I hit the road to do shopping, I'll keep an eye out for one.

The reason I had homed in on Godin was a couple years ago I played a steel-string Multiac at a store in Cedar Rapids (Starz Guitars) which I immediately fell in love with - - it fit me so perfectly, it was like finding the right girl.

Keep the replies coming! What's your favorite? and why?

deanmass · December 13, 2005

If you can, get to either Mass Street Music in Lawrence KS ( sounds like you may be near there), Sweetwater (to try out the MIDI stuff) or Elderly in Lansing Michigan.

I have owned several Steinbergers. GREAT guitars, but very 'clinical' sounding, if that makes sense. I wish I had never sold my XL-2 al gaphite one. One of my biggest spousal induced sale mistakes.

I get what you mean about spending, but ya know, while you are spending and such..

I have also been really curious about the Brian Moore guitars, but have never seen one, played one, or heard much about them.

the only reason I say that about Taylors is that I have played bunches of them in stores, some 'good stores' who kept them tuned and and such, and the normal GC type stores, and no matter what, I thought they varied greatly from guitar to guitar. If you were talking an acoustic, my choice would be a Collings. I have yet to play a guitar I have liked better, and it remains my 'dream guitar'. I havea also been very impressed with Lowden ( spelling ) guitars I have tried.

philbo · December 13, 2005

Thanks Dean.

Kansas = 12 hour drive

Michigan = 10 hour drive

Might be worth flying though...

Tedster · December 13, 2005

Originally posted by amplayer

Given what you have described, I think the Taylor T5 would meet your needs perfectly:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/t5/feature/Models.aspx?model=standard

YEAH, BABY!!! (rowrrrrr)

panthalassa · December 14, 2005

Just peeked at your inquiry. Even though we're out here in California, the company I teach at not only is a Godin dealer (as well as a dealer for many others), we also service them. Although I don't own one (lusting after the nylon-string w/ synth acess), I've never seen a customer with a complaint about Godin guitars.

My other two cents: I play a Heritage from Kalamazoo. They're the old Gibson people, and they make your guitar exactly the way you want it on the original equipment. So that $40,000 '57 Les Paul is from the same factory as one of these, which are typically half as much as a new Gibson, yet still handmade with top-notch parts (e.g. Schaller tuners instead of those slippery -- though cool-looking -- Klusens).

Thanks for your time.

www.cbperkins.com

epiegols · December 14, 2005

I'd second the Parker. I've never played a guitar that is as stable and stays in tune as well, even with a whammy bar. I havent tried the new Mojo Single cuts, but they look a little more traditional then the Fly.

daklander · December 14, 2005

Plays well and sounds pretty darned good.

philbo · December 16, 2005

Originally posted by panthalassa

Just peeked at your inquiry. Even though we're out here in California, the company I teach at not only is a Godin dealer (as well as a dealer for many others), we also service them. Although I don't own one (lusting after the nylon-string w/ synth acess), I've never seen a customer with a complaint about Godin guitars.

My other two cents: I play a Heritage from Kalamazoo. They're the old Gibson people, and they make your guitar exactly the way you want it on the original equipment. So that $40,000 '57 Les Paul is from the same factory as one of these, which are typically half as much as a new Gibson, yet still handmade with top-notch parts (e.g. Schaller tuners instead of those slippery -- though cool-looking -- Klusens).

Thanks for your time.

www.cbperkins.com

The Heritage guitars are incredible - - really nice. THanks for the tip

Dak - I too love Carvins.

Dang... this is widening the list instead of narrowing it... but I do need to consider every possibility...

Thanks to you also.

KB Gunn · December 16, 2005

The Parker Fly would be my dream guitar if only they would make a lefty!!! Great rock and acoustic sounds.

daklander · December 16, 2005

Originally posted by philbo

Dak - I too love Carvins.

Dang... this is widening the list instead of narrowing it... but I do need to consider every possibility...

Thanks to you also.

Well, I saw that you have a Cobalt and because the AE-185 plays so well and sounds so good it would be a nice compliment to the Cobalt.

deanmass · December 17, 2005

I had never heard of Heritage and I live about 2 hours from there...

That is COOL that some people have picked that up.

Everythign I read on here, I still say Godin. If I were buying one guitar, especially for stage, it would be the nylon strnig Godin with the MID pig VG 88 setup.

amplayer · December 17, 2005

Originally posted by deanmass

The Taylor looks nice, but I have found Taylors to be incredibly spotty quality wise.

I have had EXACTLY the opposite experience with Taylor guitars. I live in New England. Around here, the two big retailers are Guitar Center and Daddy's.

I have played Taylor guitars in several of both these stores, and they always play and sound great.

If Daddy's and Guitar Center get it right, I'd bet most other stores don't get them wrong.

Danger: If you have the money for one, you'd better not try a Taylor, because you'll probably walk out with it.

philbo · December 19, 2005

Thanks again to everyone for your considered input on this.

I have decided to go with a Godin LGXT

Details:

http://www.godinguitars.com/godinlgxtp.htm

I really appreciate all the inputs you guys have provided.

Thanks once more to one & all.

daklander · December 20, 2005

Originally posted by amplayer

If you have the money for one, you'd better not try a Taylor, because you'll probably walk out with it.

I can guarantee I wouldn't. I've played several, near a dozen, Taylors and there is only one I liked the tone and feel of. Guitplayer, you here?

That was a nice box. The rest of them I could take or leave but wouldn't pay for.

philbo · January 16, 2006

Well, since everyone was so helpful, I thought I'd post a bit of a followup.

1) Godin LG XSA & hard case.

It is AAA flamed maple with a transparent blue finish, totally gorgeous.

Pickups:

piezo 6-output pickup in the bridge (for both acoustical sounds and for driving a guitar synth), plus 2 Seymour Duncan humbucker pickups. All the electronics is passive (I hunted in vain for where to put in the battery...)

There are 3 output jacks:

1/4" Mix (piezo + electric pickups)

1/4" Acoustic (piezo only)

13-pin Guitar Synth output

The acoustic pickup has volume, bass, mid & treble controls on the upper part of the front of the body, and can output to any of the 3 output jacks.

The electric pickups has volume & tone, with a 5 position switch set up like this, from front position to back position:

1) Neck pickup, humbucking

2) Neck pickup, single coil

3) Neck & bridge pickup, both humbucking

4) Bridge pickup, single coil

5) Bridge pickup, humbucking

This output can be fed to either the 1/4" mix output or to the 13 pin output.

There are 2 additional toggle switches used to control the 13 pin output.

One is the 'S1/S2' Guitar-synth switch, which is a 3 position, spring-loaded return-to-center switch. It is commonly used to scroll up or down through patches, though some synths let you assign it to different things.

The other toggle switch is a 3 position switch, which is used to define the sound fed to the 13 pin output. Front is Mix (piezo & electric pickup blend), center position is Mix + Synth, and back position is synth only.

The guitar plays beautifully and sounds even better than it plays... With all those pickup options, there is a lot to explore. I planned on going through every permutation systematically, but impulse and inspiration took over, and I have just jumped randomly around between settings. I haven't found anything that doesn't sound phenomenal so far.

It's a little dangerous, it may put your normal life at risk. Three times last week I sat down with it, started noodling about, and the next thing I know it's 3 AM and I've forgot about having to work in the morning!

The fit, finish, build quality, materials and parts quality are all first rate. It is simply gorgeous. Every note rings true, and the setup is really very good. I plan on making some minor adjustment to the intonation of 2 strings, but they're only off by 4 or 5 cents. Not enough to have bothered me so far.

The fret radius is 16", which is large (Strats, for example, are 9"). This allows bending notes without fretting out the string. It is also much easier on the hand and arm. I had surgery a year ago for 'tunnel syndromes', so this was a definite consideration... I can play for hours and never notice a twinge, which is not true of any other guitar I have.

The scale length (distance from nut to 12th fret) is 25.5", which allows my oversize hands abundant room. This also has an effect on fatigue when playing. I once had a Gibson SG, which would actually give me cramps and spasms in my left hand after playing for 5 or 6 hours due to it's short scale. The Godin doesn't have this problem.... Of course, if your hands are small, this may not be a plus for you.

I've only used the 13 pin output with a Roland GR-30 guitar synth so far, although I also have borrowed an old GR-1 to try out. The pitch tracking is pretty damn amazing, I must say. There is a slight lag on the lower strings, which is exagerated by those sounds that have a long attack. But on a number of other patches, there was virtually unnoticeable tracking delay. I haven't put in enough hours playing with it to say that the low pitch tracking is or 's not an issue. So far, it isn't.

But the real treat is tracking string bends. I was ripping out a very sexy saxophone sound, playing stuff like 'Fever', 'Hit the Road, Jack', 'Work Song'

and 'Theme from the Pink Panther' - - It was amazingly realistic and expressive. It even growled when I played harder, then sang when I played soft. I quickly discovered how much lead guitar in rock borrowed from '50s jazz. All my stock rock riffs sounded like old jazz LPs when played on a trumpet or sax patch.

Anyway, moving on to some other new stuff:

2) Hohner Blues Harp 7 pack -

Has an 'ammo belt' strap, and road case, with 7 Blues Harps, one in each key from A to G. If you play blues harmonica, it's the 2nd most fun you can have with 2 hands.

3) Tracktion 2 - Ok, it's been out there a while... But it is an amazing tool. It comes with, oh, about 10 different soft synths, plus a huge amount of other VST plugin stuff. Amplitude, SampleTank, Linn RMIV (Drums VSTi) are the headliners here, but there are maybe 100 other plugs, ranging from amp simulators to mastering tools to effects of all types. An interesting VSTi included is Slayer, which is an electric guitar/stompbox/amp/cab instrument that you feed midi.

I'm still exploring this thing, but was able to jump right in and record tracks about 3 minutes after installing it. It's incredibly efficient and ergonomic; you plug in, you play, it records. That's it. None of the extremely convoluted techno-BS that bogs you down with most other DAWs.

I record at 24 bit, 44.1K, but it will handle up to 192K if you want to push that envelope. It prefers ASIO sound cards, but will work with DirectSound if that's all you have.

Since this is a relatively new product, I hate to pick at it too much... but I do have a wish list.

1) It would be nice if it asked where you keep your VST plugs instead of putting them into the Tracktion2 directory. Once I copied every thing into my VST directory I had a huge array of stuff to dig through. I spent a little time sorting the directory & subdirectories by function (e.g., Delay, Flangers, Phasers) instead of maker (DigitalFish Phones), and this made things considerably simpler.

2) It would be great if you could assign arbitrary midi controls to run the transport (though the new Bournes Midi Controller program ended up working well for this). Particularly, it needs an 'enable' control, so for example, if I hit C#1, it toggles between play & stop ONLY if the portamento pedal is pressed. Otherwise it just passes the note into whatever else is listening for midi.

3) It would be really nice if the program could read .ins files to allow importing the bank & patch names for various synths. In fact, it would be really nice if VSTi (and DXi) instruments all shipped with an .ins file. But, since Tracktion won't read them, you have to use Midi-Ox to set patches on external synths. It's clumsy, but it works.

4) While I'm thinking about it, it would be nice if the midi-Ox / Midi-Yoke functionality were wired in to Tracktion. This would give it flexibility no other that DAW I know of in handling midi.

Anyway, THANKS to all of you who helped me pick out the guitar...

philbo · January 16, 2006