Sales of Music Plunge Sharply

[Greenshoe]

 

Or maybe people's ability to hear music that isnt forced on them by the entertainment cartels has allowed them to expand into more obscure genres. If people can have the access to listen to ANYTHING they want, then perhaps they will discover artists/bands/music they otherwise wouldnt have. The whole flavor of the week money-making formula the RIAA has enjoyed for so long is coming back to bite them in the ass.

 

 

I would like to believe so, but I don't think that's the case.

 

The entertainment cartels have been force feeding us schlock since the 1950s.

 

The difference is nowadays - it's really easy for anyone to record near-professional quality tracks, and provide a medium (Myspace, Soundclick, etc.) that is free or really cheap to distribute (put up your own website). What that does is it just exponentially increases the sheer volume of great and crap music out there. It's simply overwhelming.

 

You can say that if only the labels could be the curators by cherry picking "better quality" music, but one man's {censored} is another man's gold. You may love the Arcade Fire, but there's lots of kids out there that would still rather listen to SexyBack by Justin Timberlake even if they've heard of Arcade Fire. Labels are not about great music - they are about making money. Always was, always will. Yes, in the old days you had folks like Ehmet Artegun (R.I.P.) who cared about the music, but his bosses really only cared about money, and so long as his acts were making money, he could focus on the art. But it still was about the money for the labels, even in those days of Ray Charles, Sinatra, and the Beatles.

 

I don't know how much time you have in your day, but I know in my case, there's only so many hours in the day that you have to really discover new music. Like most great music, it tends to grow on you over repeated listens. As an example. Let's say I love Modest Mouse, TV on the Radio, and all the great noise-rock/art-rock stuff that Pitchforkmedia drools over. I can literally go through Pitchforkmedia's list of top reviewed albums, and simply not have enough time to listen to all these CDs over repeated listens to really *appreciate* the music. For example, I've heard lots about The Decembrist's "The Crane Wife" and Joanna Newsom's "Ys", but I'm still getting through the stuff I've just bought (Arcade Fire's new album, Of Montreal's new album, etc.) not to mention the back catalogue of some of these acts. On top of that, there's the music I've listened to and still love to this day that I grew up with, stuff I haven't listened to in a while that I rediscover, and so forth. I have lots of time to listen to music, but I can't listen to music 24/7. There's simply WAY too much out there. And I'm just talking about the good stuff.

 

But in a way, as a listener that's a good thing - there's an endless supply of great new music - more than you have time for. It's just a shame you can't listen to it all.

[Greenshoe]

 

http://www.doubledoor.com/shows.php http://gochicago.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=gochicago&cdn=travel&tm=3&f=20&su=p531.25.152.ip_p284.7.420.ip_p284.5.420.ip_p531.23.420.ip_&tt=11&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.metrochicago.com/ http://www.tickets4u.com/SearchResults.asp?VenueName=House%20of%20Blues%20Chicago ...An example or two. Personally, I like many current acts. I really don't see that there's any real difference in djs playing records 2o years ago and djs playing records today. As far as tastemakers go... how many people {general public} will look past yahoo, Rolling Stone, or even the advertisements on tv or in their local paper? That's your tastemakers. The 'net had the power to change that but it's all been bought by the same folk that have always controlled it. Don't kid yourself.

 

 

I have no idea whether you're agreeing with me, or not?

 

As I've said in my previous post, it's not that bands aren't touring or that people aren't going. It's simply that people aren't going in the same numbers as they used to. Will it shrink further? I don't know. But you're not going to have acts selling out football stadiums anymore. It's medium- and niche artists performing to small and medium-sized fan bases.

 

As for tastemakers, I have no idea how to respond because I don't know if you're trying to disagree with what I (didn't) say or what.

 

??!?

[RickTaylor]

 

I have no idea whether you're agreeing with me, or not? As I've said in my previous post, it's not that bands aren't touring or that people aren't going. It's simply that people aren't going in the same numbers as they used to. Will it shrink further? I don't know. But you're not going to have acts selling out football stadiums anymore. It's medium- and niche artists performing to small and medium-sized fan bases. As for tastemakers, I have no idea how to respond because I don't know if you're trying to disagree with what I (didn't) say or what. ??!?

 

 

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I get a bit irritated by people that tell me that things are so different these days. I'm a bit irritated by the music scene in general these days.

 

I'm just saying that nothing's really changed. The people that sell out huge shows will continue to. Those folk {newer, more obscure, etc acts} that work small clubs will continue to do that. Djs have always sold music and acted as tastemakers...

 

The people that really "make taste" are not going to change considerably. Especially given the new, more commercial focus of society these days. People will rely on large commercial services that can sell them a product cheaply and deliver reliably and they'll still be subject to the same sorts of advertisements and sales. Djs and small clubs will be just as effective as they've always been.

[Phil O'Keefe]

That's why I'm so glad they're working so hard on coming up with a really creative digital strategy! Well, they are...aren't they?

 

You'd think so... but if they are, it's the best kept secret since Enigma.

 

Maybe someone can come up with some solutions.

[Greenshoe]

 

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I get a bit irritated by people that tell me that things are so different these days. I'm a bit irritated by the music scene in general these days. I'm just saying that nothing's really changed. The people that sell out huge shows will continue to. Those folk {newer, more obscure, etc acts} that work small clubs will continue to do that. Djs have always sold music and acted as tastemakers... The people that really "make taste" are not going to change considerably. Especially given the new, more commercial focus of society these days. People will rely on large commercial services that can sell them a product cheaply and deliver reliably and they'll still be subject to the same sorts of advertisements and sales. Djs and small clubs will be just as effective as they've always been.

 

 

There are things that are the same, but you can't deny that some things have changed as well. Nothing is 100% static in music, or in anything really.

 

There will always be great and bad music in any era. DJs will do their thing, musicians will continue to produce music and play concerts, labels will continue to maximize profit, the major media outlets will push mostly schlock, etc.

 

However, you cannot deny that some things have changed. Declining sales and a shrinking market are a pretty damn big sign that things have changed. Consumers have spoken by buying less of what the labels are offering.

 

Technology, culture, politics, etc. all impacts how a musician makes a living. There have been people making a living from music for thousands of years, going back to ancient Egypt and the Greeks. But how they make their living changes with the times - it changes with tastes, technology, political-economic systems, etc. They didn't sell records in Elizabethean times. Radio didn't exist in the 19th century, but you still had an "industry" of musicians - but radio sure changed how music was delivered. Same with the invention of the electric guitar on the style of music being played. Or the MPC2000 on hiphop. Recording on computers has changed not only how people record, but also access. Mp3s, the Internet, iPods, etc. has changed how the average person discovers and listens to music - and even the attitudes towards music and individual artists.

 

I do agree that some things won't change, but there are a lot of things that are different these days. Ask any working musician from the 1980s onwards on how the industry has changed.

[RickTaylor]

 

However, you cannot deny that some things have changed. Declining sales and a shrinking market are a pretty damn big sign that things have changed. Consumers have spoken by buying less of what the labels are offering.

 

 

I don't think that "consumers have spoken by buying less of what the labels are offering". I do think that people don't have to pay for stuff anymore and the role/worth of the artist/musician and their product has been so devalued by society these days that people don't really feel the need to.

 

Some things have changed, yeah...

[Jotown]

 

I don't think that "consumers have spoken by buying less of what the labels are offering". I do think that people don't have to pay for stuff anymore and the role/worth of the artist/musician and their product has been so devalued by society these days that people don't really feel the need to. Some things have changed, yeah...

+1

 

I have been saying this for 5 years now. Sadly I can't offer a solution to the problem but the fact is that the devaluation of music is the real issue here; not the RIAA, or American Idol, or major record labels.

 

If you can get it for free you aren't going to pay for it.

 

Same as it ever was.

[Active Reasoner]

Thanks to everybody for the highly intelligent and entertaining discussion.

Artists keep up the value of their paintings by limiting the supply.

Original paintings cost a fortune, and prints are usually limited editions.

The diamond industry keeps the price of diamonds artificially high

by limiting the supply.

If the consumers won't pay a decent price for recordings,

perhaps limiting the supply of recordings will make consumers realize

the true value of music.

[Spin Cycle]

 

Thanks to everybody for the highly intelligent and entertaining discussion. Artists keep up the value of their paintings by limiting the supply. Original paintings cost a fortune, and prints are usually limited editions. The diamond industry keeps the price of diamonds artificially high by limiting the supply. If the consumers won't pay a decent price for recordings, perhaps limiting the supply of recordings will make consumers realize the true value of music.

 

 

I like your logic a lot. Welcome to the forum.

[realtrance]

"realtrance", you are out of your mind. Everyone who says there isnt good music now is nuts. There is plenty of good music. Sure, it might be different, but come on. "No" good albums over the entire year? Anyone who says they didnt buy an album over the last year, fair enough, but that is a far cry from "no" music being good. Theres a ton of great music out there currently. I might not share the same tastes as some, but theres plenty of music for me... Ryan Adams, Old Crow Medicine Show, John Lisi / Delta Funk... theres great music out there, you just have to not be lazy. There were also solid movies, books and TV. I dont watch much TV outside of Curb your Enthusaism, but movies in the last year? Children of Men was great, Pan's Labyrinth, Casino Royale, Zodiac, Offside... I could go on and on and on... Same with good novels. Saying there are "no" good novels recently is ludicrous. Read Erickson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series (if you like fantasy...) and tell me you can put it down. Art today is fantastic, at least i think. I think if you are going to issue statements like "there are *no* good ______ ( -John

 

 

John thanks for the recommendations and I will check them out (sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, so I'm always willing! ), but unfortunately I have a feeling that in even TWO years from now.... no-one will have heard of Ryan Adams or Old Crow. If not, great, but... the problem I've repeatedly had over the years since around 1982 (and I have a pretty extensive CD collection to back this up...) is that there's just NOTHING really standout, no matter how often I try, or how repeatedly I listen. To take a coupla more commercial and known examples, Beck and Radiohead; sure, their stuff is pleasant, but does any single cut on any of their stuff even begin to capture my imagination the way even the Beatles' "Back in the USSR" or Weather Report's "Birdland" or Michael Jackson's "Bad" or Herbie Hancock's "Watermelon Man" or Steely Dan's "Kate" did? I can't even remember the name of a single song from either Beck or Radiohead, it's so recyclable and unmemorable.

 

Still... I'll try again. I'd say the same thing about movies. Overpriced, overproduced, .... dull, ultimately.

 

And, unfortunately, even the video games industry feels like it's on its last legs these days. I haven't seen a really GREAT new game idea that has stand-out power since Civilization, really. Every new release seems increasingly flash-in-the-pan. Oblivion almost got there, though. World of Warcraft is a classic but it's what, three years old already?

 

Some days I look around my stuff and think gee, I may have a repository of the last of western civilization staring me in the face. I should pack it all up and look for my alien friends, to cart it off to another planet, for their museum of "Intelligent Species That Once Looked Like They Had Some Potential."

[tradivoro1]

I"m sure that whatever figures are being quoted and misinterpreted by this article they're not taking a lot of things mentioned by others in this posts, such as people selling their own CDs at performances... Somebody else mentioned this, and I'll mention my experience to reiterate that point... I've been using Rhapsody now for 4 years... I don't download music... I stream it.. I pay a monthly fee... Whenever there's a CD that I simply have to have, which is not usual, I usually buy it used... I'm sure like me there are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people... Because of this, there is no reason to buy CDs for a person like me... So, the WSF article is not taking into consideration this part of the business....

 

Another thing is that, like most businesses that are based on technology, the technology changes, it allows a lot of other players into the game, and those that were used as a barometer of what the industry is are no longer relevant... Case in point is AT&T... At one point, there was only one telephone company, AT&T... In the 80s, they were sued as monopoly and other companies were allowed ot get into the telephone business... AT&T started to suffer... The new companies were more and more aggressive... AT&T did not change a lot of it's strategies, it was a big company with a lot of negative inertia... By the end of the 90s and the beginning of the new millenia, AT&T stock had gone down ridiculously low and AT&T was basically almost a none entity.... It's only been in the last 2 years that AT&T has made an amazing comeback, but only due to innovative strategies that allow it to survive in the new telephone marketplace... I'm willing to bet 2 bucks that the music industry is suffering from the kind of negative inertia... The difference between AT&T and the music companies is that AT&T didn't blame its customers for its failure... I know a lot of people are going to tell me, oh, but people are downloading music... Trust me, that's an excuse of the music industry, pointing fingers outside, as opposed to pointing a finger to itself...

[ShakaCthulu]

 

Person downloads music, person enjoys music, person pays money directly to the artist in ticket sales at their concert.

 

 

Uh huh. What about people who can't tour?

[Billster]

 

I think I understand what you're driving at, in which case it may help to know that the recent Dreamgirls release set a record as the lowest-selling selling chart topper of the SoundScan era (according to Rolling Stone). In other words, Dreamgirls was the lowest-selling number one record since 1991 (and probably since considerably earlier). This 16-year-or-longer spell is far too long of a time period to be considered a season. Best, Geoff

 

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the 16 year gap compared to my seasonal issue. No, that's not what I'm driving at.

 

When was Dreamgirls soundtrack #1? Was it the first week it was on the charts, or after it had been out for several weeks and sales of the previous #1's had dropped off?

 

Dreamgirls was a December movie - is the soundtrack concurrent? That's three months of sales under the belt already if it is a recent #1. What compelling music has debuted since December?

 

If a blockbuster new release comes out, I suspect it will have gross unit sales figures higher than 16 years ago. In a hot sales period like the Christmas holiday, I suspect the gross unit figures for anything in the top 5-10 to be higher than what #1 was 15 years earlier.

 

It's why they invented "Platinum" records, because "Gold" became an easier achievement in an expanding market.

[Billster]

Maybe the whole concept of making "megabucks" from music is fading? How did musicians make money before recording and record companies came along? They played for it for of course.. It's a bit different now, in the digital age,actually better, in that we can put recordings of our live performances up on the web.. or even broadcast live to the net... So you give away examples of your music to attract people to your live performances... You give away a free MP3 of a couple of tunes to attract people to your website where there are other tunes and other merchandise, or tickets to your next show for sale..... Is that such a crazy idea? Is it really fantasy land? Or was the era of the superstar and million dollar albums the real fantasy?

 

You said it before I could.

 

Why is there such a focus on sales of a physical product (vinyl, CD)? Because the record companies that skim their profit from the sales are driving the discussion.

 

Certainly, you can make a little money selling discs or downloads, but a recording should really be an invitation to come experience the sound in person.

 

There are also other ways to get income from recorded music, such as stock library placement for soundtrack use, etc.

[ShakaCthulu]

This thread is hilarious. The same-old/same-old EEEEEEEEEEVIL Corporate Music Conglomerates crap. "There's no good music coming out", blah blah blah. Whatever it takes to legitimize outright THEFT. The only valid argument I've seen is Anderton's about a rigid industry that refuses to innovate.

 

Sorry, there's TONS of excellent music out there, and there's plenty of great artists signed to eeeeeeevil corporate labels. Most of these are just signed to subsidiaries owned by the eeeeeevil "entertainment cartels".

 

Yes, everyone should just do everything themselves. Why hire a contractor to build you house...BUILD IT YOURSELF! Car broke down? Fix it yourself, don't support the eeeeevil automotive repair industry! Like it or not, the labels do perform a service....they get your music heard, they shop your music around, they liscense it to other media outlets, etc etc...allowing you to concentrate on music. How the hell are you going to have time to write music if you're constantly fighting to be heard over every laptop jockey, three-chord Behringer wonder, and warez junkie with a LAME encoder?

[Will Chen]

Good thread, lots of different interesting viewpoints on the subject. Hope I'm not too late to chime in...

 

The issue, as has been said in this thread and many times before, is the valuation of music in general. Sure the record companies have been extremely slow to create a digital distribution model, but perhaps it's not due to being dinosaurs and not realizing the potential. Perhaps in every scenario they researched there was only one outcome, no profit. As far as distribution format and the last dance for the big labels. With DVD storage capacity why not build a playback system which lets the user "remix" albums. Instead of boosting bass, mid, and treble the user can boost acoustic guitar, cut drums, and add an alternate piano track.

 

Music in it's the current form of entertainment (or art) is on its last leg. Why? Well, I believe it is the internet age purchasing power reduction of the idealistic nature of youth. We all remember how it was (or see it first hand for the younger members)...{censored} the system...evil corporations...pop is pass

[kurdy]

Trying to look at this problem as something that's curable is futile; Pandora

[Geoff Grace]

 

Before recording was invented, musicians and actors had to actually work for a living and maybe they'll have to face up to that fact again now that the playing field has been leveled so dramatically.

 

 

I can't speak about the typical recording artist, but the superstars I worked for on a regular basis were intensely driven people who would have gone stir crazy working a normal 40-hour week.

 

Four hours of sleep was enough for them, and they worked virtually every single waking moment. No wonder the top recording artists are young. I usually got by on three or four hours of sleep for four years in my thirties while working for one of those artists, but I could never handle it now.

 

Granted, they're working for a living doing something they love; but don't kid yourself -- it is work!

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Drumr]

This is a good time for all of us to just get out and play live.

[Will Chen]

 

I doubt the average music consumer nowadays really cares about gimmicks for gimmicks sake. If it isn't super-convienent, it's hard for them to justify spending their time and money on it. They want something free and downloadable that they put in their pocket and listen to in their car while they do other things. Live music is live music--you still have to drive someplace and pay money to see it. All the little visual and multimedia gimmicks in the world aren't really going to make up for that fact.

 

 

Sure but I'm thinking somewhere between the disposable music idea and the live performance concept. Delivering an experience. Playing live is great, I love live music. But let's be realistic. How many people go out and see live music anymore. And even if they do, what percentage of the bands that they see are cover bands?

 

The concept of recording as a method to promote and advertise to boost ticket/door sales has been inversed in a society in which a band is no longer required to make an album. Every DAW out there has the capability to create a "band in a box" environment and the market for this technology is booming. This is a best of times, worst of times scenario as music is increasingly becoming a solitary experience both from a creation and consumption perspective.

 

SONY recently released their auto-scoring software to create canned movie soundtracks, how long before they release genre based apps to cover musical beds for any activity. Feel a little punk today? Pick a musical theme and preto, insta-angst randomized to ensure an original song 99.9% of the time.

 

Our musical experience has been diluted to something to pass time. Someone must bring it to the next level. Evolve or die.

[ggm1960]

 

Playing live is great, I love live music. But let's be realistic. How many people go out and see live music anymore. And even if they do, what percentage of the bands that they see are cover bands?

 

 

Yeah it's a shame people are afraid to go to bars/clubs anymore. You sure as hell better not drive there. It's almost become standard practice anymore; you'll be playing in the band and in walks 2, 3 or more cops for no real reason and just mull around making the patrons nervous. I'm up there thinking that's great - thanks for scaring everyone off and killing my night. You'll travel to a small town to play and watch out the window as the local Barney Fife drives past the place a hundred times during the night.

 

It's some strange new prohibition era we've entered where authorities don't really want to make drinking illegal; they prefer to fill the jails with average working stiffs out having a good time, people with jobs, homes and children that are forced to cough up cash for fines, lawyers, (jail boarding fees!?), "treatment programs", the DOT, etc et al.

 

Come on out and see the band, have a few beers, spend the night in jail, and live a nightmare.

 

Sorry to mention a subject people are afraid to address

[Jotown]

 

Originally Posted by fretwizz "Before recording was invented, musicians and actors had to actually work for a living and maybe they'll have to face up to that fact again now that the playing field has been leveled so dramatically"

What a ridiculous statement. You have clearly never worked in the music business and never known anyone who has made their living in it.

 

Artists; (and the supporting craftsmen) have always been some of the hardest working and most dedicated people on the planet. Have you ever read about Davinci, or Michelangelo? Or Bach or Beethoven? Or how about Paul McCartney or Bruce Sweiden?

 

To succeed in any business you have to be a hard working and diligent person and for artists this is even more so. I guarantee you that both Craig Anderton and Justin Timberlake work their asses off and that they are successful in their respective fields is no accident.

 

Artists have made their livings at their craft fro millennia. Your comment shows how the de-valuation of music (and of art in general) has permeated the culture and this is truly the real problem.

 

Just out of curiosity how old are you?

[Billster]

Playing live is great, I love live music. But let's be realistic. How many people go out and see live music anymore. And even if they do, what percentage of the bands that they see are cover bands? The concept of recording as a method to promote and advertise to boost ticket/door sales has been inversed in a society in which a band is no longer required to make an album. Every DAW out there has the capability to create a "band in a box" environment and the market for this technology is booming. This is a best of times, worst of times scenario as music is increasingly becoming a solitary experience both from a creation and consumption perspective. ... Our musical experience has been diluted to something to pass time. Someone must bring it to the next level. Evolve or die.

 

Check out this photographer's project

 

My wife and I came to the conclusion that the average person thinks that if a band or musician isn't signed to a major record label, there must be a reason, so why go out and see bad music. So this book will let those people know that there are probably millions more unsigned, local and independent label musicians than there are major label artists. There are far more talented musicians that are not signed to a major record label.

 

You already knew that, didn't you? But do you do anything about it? Go see a show already.

[Cry Logic]

What a ridiculous statement. You have clearly never worked in the music business and never known anyone who has made their living in it.

Quite the opposite Jotown

 

I've played in bands as a guitarist.

I worked in a danceclub for 3 years as a VJ using the Fairlight C.V.I

way back in the 80's before anyone knew what a VJ was.

I've worked as an engineer in studios and for live acts.

I've also done my fair share of minimum wage jobs to support myself when

there was no other way to put food on the table.

Just out of curiosity how old are you?

53 ....Born in 53

I was forced to stop playing due to R.S.I of the left wrist and arm.

But that eventually came good and I slowly got back into playing but not professionally as yet....

I'm just in the throes of building up a home studio and intend to have

another stab at it... no illusions... I just want to write and play again.

At the moment I have only 1 guitar .. a K-Yairi nylon string ....

Just built a Core 2 Duo PC ... very fast, very powerful.

About to buy a mid range electric guitar and hope to record

some of the many pieces I've been writing/ perfecting over the years....

 

I still have friends in the business, one close friend in a major Australian band,

but I doubt if they can help me because most of them are stuck in the

old paradigm and don't understand the new way at all...

 

Wish me luck?

[RickTaylor]

 

If the consumers won't pay a decent price for recordings, perhaps limiting the supply of recordings will make consumers realize the true value of music.

 

 

You really think that the artist has any control over that these days?