Do you drive less in response to higher gas prices?

[Philter]

We aren't just paying higher gas prices at the pump but in the supermarket and stores because the transportation of goods and services is climbing too. I believe this will all escalate as foreign competition for oil climbs and the remaining oil reserves are depleted. This time next year we may all fondly remember $3/gal gas and the year after that it may be double that and rising. Oil companies know this and they are raising prices as a way to reduce consumption and keep from having to invest in new refineries. No matter what the government says, if we're not completely off petroleum within ten years then our country will go bankrupt.

 

 

The higher food prices are not only due to increased transportation costs. The ethanol boondoggle is raising the cost of corn which in turn raises the cost of corn products, corn fed milk, etc etc etc.

[alphajerk]

there is a massive surplus of corn to go around... high fructose corn syrup anyone?

[LiveMusic]

Ok some quick math: Average gas price May 2006: $2.86/gal Average gas price May 2007: $3.20/gal source 15 gallons @ $2.86/gal = $42.90 15 gallons @ $3.20/gal = $48.00 Difference: $5.10 Even if you fill up your tank every week, that's only $20 more a month. Do you guys really think that this change is having a drastic enough effect to really alter people's lives ?? If people change their habits it's purely psychological because a $5 change should not be enough of an incentive to modify your lifestyle

 

 

You would carry more weight with your idea there if you compared $3.00 gas to, say, $2.00 gas.

[doug osborne]

In the Yaris? I knew the Scion XA has the same engine, but didn't know they used it there too.

 

 

At least through '06 (as well as Corolla, the older Echo, and other small Toyotas.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_xB

 

 

available with either the 1.3 L 2NZ-FE engine or the 1.5 L 1NZ-FE, mated exclusively to a 4-speed automatic transmission with available all wheel drive. The xB is only available with the 1NZ-FE, but offers both a 4-speed automatic or a 5-speed manual transmission. All-wheel drive is not offered on the xB. The Toyota bB has a temporary spare tire stored under the rear cargo floor. On the Scion xB, a compact spare tire is stored under the left side of the rear cargo floor. Since the spare tire raised the cargo floor by several inches, a storage compartment was added to the right of the spare tire to reclaim some of the lost storage space. A jack is stored under the driver's seat of the xB. The Toyota bB has a pull-out storage tray under the passenger seat. [edit] Second Generation (2007-present) Second generation Production 2007- Assembly Ikeda, Osaka, Japan Engine(s) 2.4L 158 hp I4 Wheelbase 102.4 in Length 167.3 in Height 63.6 in Related Toyota Corolla Scion tC Toyota unveiled the second-xB at the 2007 Chicago Auto Show. Larger than the previous xB, the new xB is more rounded in shape and is styled as a 5-door version of the t2B concept unveiled the year before at the 2006 New York Auto Show. The 2008 xB is 3" wider and 1' longer than the current xB. The second-generation xB is powered by a 2.4L engine shared with the tC and the Camry.

 

 

The good thing is that they know how to make and use this engine. Tried and true technology.

[philbo]

Thanks for the info. Too bad they're going to a larger engine for '08; the 1.5 L is perfectly adequate.

 

Another cool thing about the xB: If you make it mad, it turns into a robot.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Skids-Alternators.jpg

[2180]

I realize most people don't have to deal with my situation, I repair machines, I like machines, I'm not to bad at figuring things-out when it comes to machines.

I have been wanting to start my own business repairing machines because the modern world wouldn't be modern without machines.

Now the problem is, why am I having to pay more in money to drive my truck around than it pays to fix machines?

Could someone please tell me whom the asshole is that is doing this?

[philbo]

The total inflation from Jan 1980 to Jan 2007 is 160.17%.

 

This means that a gallon of gas costing $3.30 today is equivalent (in terms of actual value) to paying $2.06 in 1980.

 

The same value, for 1973, would be $0.88

 

 

I got this from here:

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/InflationCalculator.asp

[doug osborne]

what was the price of gas in 1980 adjusted for inflation?

 

 

Here's a chart for California http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gasoline_cpi_adjusted.html

 

We are at a historical high.

[philbo]

Here's a chart for California http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gasoline_cpi_adjusted.html We are at a historical high.

 

 

Of course, that only goes up through 2006.

2007 should hold more historical (and hysterical) highs.

[chipmcdonald]

Chip - we need to find a "sarcasm" emoticon for you!

 

 

Yeah, I know, I've been trying to tone it down as of late... sorry...

[chipmcdonald]

Chip, are you sure there's no reason for high gas prices other than gouging? What research have you done to come to this conclusion?

 

 

"why doesn't milk cost $5 a gallon?".

 

 

 

In these two little paragraphs you say so much about our American culture and our relationship with the automobile. 28 MPG, and I know that you are giving this information to show that your car is reasonably fuel efficient.

 

 

The title of this thread is "do you drive less due to higher gas prices?", of which my post effectively said "no, I do not" - but, you should notice the point was that I have altered my driving and I can get a higher MPG than my car is rated at. With a change of driving style perhaps everyone could get a bit better gas mileage.

 

But you can take it for whatever you wish.

 

 

The average fuel efficiency of a car being sold in France today is 46 miles per gallon.

 

 

The presently most popular selling car in France is the Peugeot 207 which gets 46 mpg in *imperial* gallons; here that would be about 37 mpg.

 

 

 

You are complaining about high gas prices in between long driving trips to a spectacle centered around burning gas at a high rate.

 

 

Yes, I am. F1 racing has absolutely nothing to do with the price of gas, although technology derived from F1 does have a lot to do with advances in engine/drive train design that contributes to fuel economy in road cars.

 

 

Do we have a supply problem or is maybe there a demand problem at work here as well?

 

 

There presently is no supply problem. Demand for an essential item is not a "problem" when there is adequate supply and the price is not manipulated so as to cause harm to the economy.

 

 

I'm trying to remember back around 2000, if you were making any posts about how rough things were for the oil business at the time. People

 

 

If you look back that far, you'll find me asking "why are we not setting a precedent for the U.S. auto to make a better hybrid/electric vehicle". You won't find me worried for the oil business - unless that was my evil right wing twin, Mr. Luxury Yacht.

 

 

were villifying Exxon for spills back when gas was $1 a gallon in

 

 

A company being held responsible for an enormous environmental disaster 30 years ago, that is presently making record profits in the billions has nothing to do with gas prices today being triple what they were then.

 

 

some places. There seems to be a constant urge to bite the hand that feeds you

 

 

(in the interest of exercising control elaborated to Craig above, I will refrain from an obligatory sarcastic remark, save to say I would surely think someone else here would pick up the gauntlet...?)

 

 

when it comes to gasoline. Maybe if people were driving cars that were more efficient instead of driving clunkers for long trips to watch motor racing...

 

 

A) give me a more fuel efficient car and I'll drive it;

B) a 5 year old car isn't a "clunker" in my book

C) I'll feel a little more guilt for wanting to drive to see a motor race when the CEOs of Exxon, Mobil et al start driving 37 mpg Peugeots

D) What do you drive?

 

 

 

People never like to examine their own behavior....

 

 

Yes, you are correct.

 

 

behind these programs. For example, the ethanol program is supported by the farm lobby.

 

 

I'm sure the farmers don't mind the welcome 4% increase in pork and poultry prices.

 

 

Yes, the GDP will suffer, but why would oil companies want to torpedo the economy of their biggest customer?

 

 

I somehow don't believe CEO's making $100 million+ a year are really *that* concerned about the economy the same way the average American is.

 

 

is traded on international markets and the US imports about 1/3 of the gas it consumes.

 

 

We import about 20% of the natural gas. Domestic oil only contributes to about 35% of our use, the rest comes from elsewhere.

 

 

This means that the whole world is paying more for gasoline and

 

 

Wait, so what you're saying is ... I see - not only do I hate America....

 

- I also hate the whole world!!!?

 

WHY DO I HATE THE WHOLE WORLD???? Oh noes... Poor Exxon CEOs....

 

 

(sorry Craig, I couldn't help that one... really, I'm trying (seriously...))

 

 

Explosive growth in demand from Asia and other developing nations is added to growing demand from the US- the result is increasing prices.

 

 

That would equate if there were a shortage. Gasoline is an essential good; our economy would have collapsed long ago if market demand dictated price. There was once a time when what is going on now would have been stopped (and once was stopped) for the good of the economy.

 

 

 

Big oil does not set gasoline prices- if they did, they would not have allowed the glut and price crash of the 90's to have occured.

 

 

"Big oil" in the context you're describing is two different things, and that's a massive oversimplification of how things work.

 

 

Markets and demand are the part of the equation that you are not

 

 

You are injecting the premise that a sole personal philosophy should be an arbiter of *demand* in a free market system. That's neither realistic nor reality, and in either case isn't going to happen.

 

 

considering. That demand = your own behavior.

 

 

To alter the demand under the premise that the behavior is somehow wrong, would be to say that the accepted way of life Americans have been leading is also wrong. In theory, we could all ride bikes and limit our existence to what we could accomplish within distances made possible by that. It would be going backwards, and we would rapidly lose any little bit of economic ground we still have globally, but in theory we could do that.

 

It's not going to happen, though, and is likewise a moot point.

[Philter]

"why doesn't milk cost $5 a gallon?".

In the original context of my post, I do not understand your point. I asked you what information or research you had to show that gas prices are due to gouging. Your response did not address the question I asked you. By the way, milk prices are on the way to $5 a gallon thanks in no small part to the ethanol boondoggle and therefore indirectly due to American consumption.

The title of this thread is "do you drive less due to higher gas prices?", of which my post effectively said "no, I do not" - but, you should notice the point was that I have altered my driving and I can get a higher MPG than my car is rated at. With a change of driving style perhaps everyone could get a bit better gas mileage.

Absolutely, conservation is our #1 opportunity to make a positive change. Conservation will have a larger impact than any of the alternative forms of energy being talked about today.

The presently most popular selling car in France is the Peugeot 207 which gets 46 mpg in *imperial* gallons; here that would be about 37 mpg.

That may be the case, but I was not talking about the Peugeot 207- I was talking about the average fuel efficiency of a new car sold in France today. If you read my post more carefully you will see that. On a similar note, "European passenger car fuel economy is 47% better than that of the US." Both are sourced from here:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/11/average_fuel_co.html

Yes, I am. F1 racing has absolutely nothing to do with the price of gas, although technology derived from F1 does have a lot to do with advances in engine/drive train design that contributes to fuel economy in road cars.

Hardly anything in the US economy "has absolutely nothing to do with the price of gas", least of all car racing. Or are these race cars running from solar power? Demand is half of "supply & demand."

There presently is no supply problem. Demand for an essential item is not a "problem" when there is adequate supply and the price is not manipulated so as to cause harm to the economy.

There presently is a supply problem. There is not adequate supply of gasoline and that is why prices rise. In the weeks leading up to Memorial Day the US gasoline infastructure came dangerously close the the MOL (the minimum operating level- there needs to be a minimum amount of gasoline available to keep circulation sufficient and avoid regional shortages. In fact there were isolated reports of shortages during the week before Memorial Day.) With the highest demand season now upon us and hurricane season as well, the system is under intense stress and seemingly small disruptions could cause major problems.



source: Weekly Petroleum Status Report
Source: EIA

[Philter]

A company being held responsible for an enormous environmental disaster 30 years ago, that is presently making record profits in the billions has nothing to do with gas prices today being triple what they were then.

So then why do you assume that gasoline prices from 30 years ago should have any bearing on today? Did you ever consider that a lot could have changed in 30 years, say, we used something like half the available oil on the earth in that time, with global demand growing like gangbusters the whole time? Or how about something as simple as the weakening US dollar meaning anything from an international market (including oil and gasoline) is going to cost more?

 

(in the interest of exercising control elaborated to Craig above, I will refrain from an obligatory sarcastic remark, save to say I would surely think someone else here would pick up the gauntlet...?)

 

I assume this is you hinting at some form of ad hominem attack... go ahead, I'm not one to shy from getting smeared on the web.

 

A) give me a more fuel efficient car and I'll drive it; B) a 5 year old car isn't a "clunker" in my book C) I'll feel a little more guilt for wanting to drive to see a motor race when the CEOs of Exxon, Mobil et al start driving 37 mpg Peugeots D) What do you drive?

A) No one is giving people cars thankfully enough. Gradually the public is going to come to terms with the reality that the days of cheap gas have passed, and there will be movement toward more efficient vehicles.

B) I was referring to fuel economy; please don't feel personally insulted that I criticized your car; that is too peculiarly American.

C) Personally I do not look to leaders of business as examples of how to behave morally or ethically. Actually I don't mind anyone burning as much gas as they like doing whatever they like... the faster we burn through this stuff, the sooner we confront the limits to our way of life.

D) 2005 Aprilia Scarabeo 150. I let the registration on my Saturn expire. I work from home so the transition is much easier for me than for many people. Interestingly there have been a number of news articles lately mentioning steps some companies have been taking to soften the impact of high fuel prices on employees. One recent article I read mentioned companies moving to a 4 day, 10 hour day workweek to lessen commuting cost. Other companies are exploring ways to allow employees to telecommute as much as possible. Simple things like shifting hours earlier and later to avoid wasting time and gas in rush hour traffic make sense too. Eventually many people may find that long commutes are unsustainable in the face of rising fuel costs.

 

I'm sure the farmers don't mind the welcome 4% increase in pork and poultry prices.

I imagine a 4% increase in their prices is whittled down to about nothing once you factor in the increased price for feed, energy, and transportation.

 

I somehow don't believe CEO's making $100 million+ a year are really *that* concerned about the economy the same way the average American is.

No, but in the sense that people can continue to afford their product... of course they care. It's not like no one is watching them either... Congress listens to Americans complain about gas prices and the oil industry is frequently probed for gouging.

 

We import about 20% of the natural gas . Domestic oil only contributes to about 35% of our use, the rest comes from elsewhere.

 

I'm not talking about natural gas, I'm talking about Gasoline.

 

Source: EIA

 

We import a large amount of gasoline just to meet domestic supply. Gasoline is traded on international markets and that is how the price is set.

 

Wait, so what you're saying is ... I see - not only do I hate America.... - I also hate the whole world!!!? WHY DO I HATE THE WHOLE WORLD???? Oh noes... Poor Exxon CEOs.... (sorry Craig, I couldn't help that one... really, I'm trying (seriously...))

 

I don't understand what you are talking about here. Ad hominem is my guess.

 

That would equate if there were a shortage. Gasoline is an essential good; our economy would have collapsed long ago if market demand dictated price. There was once a time when what is going on now would have been stopped (and once was stopped) for the good of the economy.

There is extreme tightness in global gasoline availability, but I addressed this already. Market demand affects price. This is a reality. Gasoline is a commodity traded just like any other, like it or not.

 

"Big oil" in the context you're describing is two different things, and that's a massive oversimplification of how things work.

 

Here I assume that you mean I am referring to large independent corporations as well as nationalized petroleum companies, and that this is what you mean by two different things. The same situation exists today and therefore I am not simplifying anything. The independent oil companies actually control much less of the petroleum market than do large nationalized producers.

 

You are injecting the premise that a sole personal philosophy should be an arbiter of *demand* in a free market system. That's neither realistic nor reality, and in either case isn't going to happen.

 

I have done no such thing. I am simply stating the obvious which is that in 2007, gasoline is a commodity traded like any other, and the market sets the price of this commodity. If you have evidence of price fixing or gouging, then present it! Every time gasoline prices rise people make these charges, and there have been congressional investigations and hearings and no such evidence has ever emerged. In my opinion people overlook the true causes, which are simply market forces and now more and more the dynamics of a finite natural resource.

 

To alter the demand under the premise that the behavior is somehow wrong, would be to say that the accepted way of life Americans have been leading is also wrong.

 

Wrong, right, these are words that are too loaded and personal. The American way of life is unsustainable. Is that wrong? Who cares! Either way reality will force the change on us. The decision we actually get to make pertains to how involved we will be with the form that the change follows.

 

In theory, we could all ride bikes and limit our existence to what we could accomplish within distances made possible by that. It would be going backwards, and we would rapidly lose any little bit of economic ground we still have globally, but in theory we could do that. It's not going to happen, though, and is likewise a moot point.

 

At some point in the next several years global petroleum extraction will enter a long and permanent decline, and in fact may already have done so.

 

Source: US DOE Hirsch Report

 

Oil is a finite and depleting resource and scientific evidence is strong that we are near the maximum limit for oil extraction. The oil that remains is increasingly more difficult to extract meaning that we will be increasingly geologically constrained in our attempts to get at it.

 

Gasoline prices are currently indirectly related to tightening global oil supplies but will be more directly and severely impacted in the coming years. We can choose to adjust and adapt now or we can wait until circumstances force those changes on us. As the Hirsch report concludes, As peaking is approached, liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social, and political costs will be unprecedented.

 

So you stick to your story, "It Won't Happen," and you will not understand how and why the world is changing around you. One thing that won't change is that there will always be someone else to point the finger at.

 

If anyone is interested in understanding more about our energy security and the state of global oil reserves I highly recommend http://www.theoildrum.com . Many of the participants there are oil industry engineers and insiders and the amount and variety of information available there is unparalleled on the internet.

[DiSiAC]

It's insane, and there's no reason for it other than gouging. My car (2000 Toyota Celica) is rated at 28 mpg city - but I can get 33 mpg out of it with certain "tricks". What sucks though, is that my yearly splurge - driving to Indianapolis for the United States Grand Prix (that's F1 racing, not NASCAR...), is going to kill me this year. I've gotten about 34+mpg doing it the past 2 years, but... I'm afraid this year. The oil companies have record profits. It's destroying the economy. My own business is getting wrecked because I'm losing customers that used to routinely drive from 15+ miles away - who now can't afford to. It would seem to be a "national crisis" sort of thing - and it would seem the oil industry has the government tied into pushing non-electric "solutions", while raising prices arbitrarily. It's going to wreck our GDP (we won't see it, though - they'll continue to cook the books as per David Stockman). I just want my car to hold out long enough that I can save up to get an electric car one day, and I hope prices in the mean time don't completely destroy my business (and the rest of the economy). Oh well. "All Hail the Homeland!"....

 

 

USGP FTW!!!

[elsongs]

Be thankful cars do not run on Printer Ink...A tankful would cost you like $3600.

[chipmcdonald]

In the original context of my post, I do not understand your point. I asked you what information or research you had to show that gas prices are due to gouging. Your response did not address the question I asked you.

 

 

You probably do not agree that there is a concept *as* "price gouging", otherwise you'd know I answered your question.

 

 

By the way, milk prices are on the way to $5 a gallon thanks in no small part to the ethanol boondoggle and therefore indirectly due to American consumption.

 

 

I agree, ethanol is a boondoggle. Doesn't have anything to do with gas price gouging.

 

 

That may be the case, but I was not talking about the Peugeot 207- I was talking about the average fuel efficiency of a new car sold in France

 

 

Which is a tangent I don't care to bother with, but I'll say "ok, cars get better mileage in France". I'm also still going to say "the oil industry is still gouging and I think it's ludicrous to feel sorry for CEOs making $100 million a year".

 

 

least of all car racing. Or are these race cars running from solar power? Demand is half of "supply & demand."

 

 

So what you're saying is, if we banned (which isn't going to happen) ALL car racing in the U.S. - the oil companies would magically go "that's nice! Here you go, $.10 less a gallon!"?

 

There presently is not a shortage. Even if there were one, banning car racing wouldn't have a measurable statistical impact at all - that's ridiculous.

 

 

There presently is a supply problem.

 

 

No there isn't. The only problem is that the American oil industry has to rely on foreign oil more than *THEY* would like, because *THEY* want to make more money. That is not a supply problem. In fact, it's not a problem at all except in the sense we have to rely on foreign interests for an essential good.

 

Which is a POLITICAL problem, one that should have already been addressed with electric car technology initiatives. But hasn't happened, and won't happen, because our government is beholden to the U.S. oil cartel.

 

 

There is not adequate supply of gasoline and that is why prices rise.

 

 

If there is not an adequate supply, whose fault is that? You've got an oil industry that has record profits - nothing compares to it - and you've got a government that is owned by the same industry.

 

Why would any of the players involved want anything to change...???

 

That situation is NEVER going to change, they will continue to charge AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE for an essential good REGARDLESS of how many MPG your car gets. It will not stop until the oil actually DOES run out.

 

If that doesn't occur to you, and you don't realize why it's ridiculous to be repeating the Party Doctrine, this thread is pointless.

 

 

In the weeks leading up to Memorial Day the US gasoline infastructure came dangerously close the the MOL (the minimum operating level- there

 

 

Wow, and that was *so* accidental, *no one* in the oil industry saw THAT coming....

 

(apologies to Craig)

 

 

sufficient and avoid regional shortages. In fact there were isolated reports of shortages during the week before Memorial Day.)

 

 

That wacky oil industry, they're SO incompetent! Can't even figure out how to run their own business, imagine that... Zany, even!

 

(sorry Craig)

 

 

source: Weekly Petroleum Status Report

 

 

Gee, that would be an unbiased source...

 

(put me in the outhouse, Craig...)

[chipmcdonald]

So then why do you assume that gasoline prices from 30 years ago should have any bearing on today?

Maybe because the oil industry profits more quarterly than what it would cost to re-create the infrastructure to MAKE the "oil industry" in the first place?

Did you ever consider that a lot could have changed in 30 years,

You're right: they're making a whole lot more money.

say, we used something like half the available oil on the earth in that time, with global demand growing like gangbusters the whole time?

Somehow I feel like I want to make a Dune joke here, but I'll resist...

about something as simple as the weakening US dollar meaning anything from an international market (including oil and gasoline) is going to cost more?

No, it's not that simple, and crude oil fluctuations are miniscule and non-linear compared to pump prices.

And again - whose fault is this whole situation? GM built a viable electric car 20 years ago; why didn't the government pick up the glove?

I assume this is you hinting at some form of ad hominem attack... go ahead, I'm not one to shy from getting smeared on the web.

Right, I'm "attacking" you. Ok. Does anyone here agree with that...?

(you may want to consider who "attacked" first....)

passed, and there will be movement toward more efficient vehicles.

That was initiated a long time ago.

B) I was referring to fuel economy; please don't feel personally insulted that I criticized your car; that is too peculiarly American.

That's ok, I guess your writing was just clunky.

gas as they like doing whatever they like... the faster we burn through this stuff, the sooner we confront the limits to our way of life.

The reality is, we can't afford economically or ecologically to "burn through it". It doesn't make any sense.

sense too. Eventually many people may find that long commutes are unsustainable in the face of rising fuel costs.

*Most people do not have the luxury of choosing what their commute is*.

The point of price gouging is that yes, indeed, long commutes are becoming unsustainable, and that's already affecting the economy.

I imagine a 4% increase in their prices is whittled down to about nothing once you factor in the increased price for feed, energy, and transportation.

It's not 4% relative to two years ago, is it?

. of course they care. It's not like no one is watching them either... Congress listens to Americans complain about gas prices and the oil industry is frequently probed for gouging.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! :lol: "they care" :lol: "Congress listens" :lol: :

(congratulations, I think that's the first time I've deliberately used a smiley)

http://www.theoildrum.com/files/GasImports2.png

Another unbiased source, no doubt...

Gasoline is traded on international markets and that is how the price is set.

http://www.marketingblurb.com/2007/05/no_price_competition_allowed_f.html

I don't understand what you are talking about here. Ad hominem is my guess.

I know you are, but what am I?

this already. Market demand affects price. This is a reality. Gasoline is a commodity traded just like any other, like it or not.

Let's see... a few years ago gas was down around $1.50 around here, and now it's twice as much. Therefore, there's TWICE as much demand?
Maybe there's twice as many people now? Sure, there's more immigrants, TWICE as man? Hmmm... Maybe we're all just car-crazy all of a sudden? Then again, all of the "W THE PRESIDENT" Humvees driving around combined with the immigrant population might add up to equal that much more demand? And gee - maybe the poor old oil industry just don't know what they're doing?

No, they're gouging. They're making a LOT more than they've ever made.

Hefrde I fassume that yofu mean I am aasreferring to large independent corporsdations as well afddss nationalizedd petroleum dcompanies, and that this is what you mean by two different things. The same situation exists todfdsday and therefdfforfe I sdfdfdt simplifan do large nationfsdfffsddalized producers.

Sorry, I didn't make that out, I seem to be suffering from TCP packet spoilage or something...

zzzzzzzzzzz....

[chipmcdonald]

USGP FTW!!!

 

 

 

Forza McLaren?

[philbo]

The devil is in the details as far as petro profits go. Say they make a 10% profit. So when gas sells for 1.80/gal, they make 0.18/gal profit. Now the price jumps to 3.40/gal - - and they make 0.34/gal profit.

Suddenly the profits have doubled for the same amount of product, and the same amount of work/investment/processing on their part. They can still report profit is the same percentage of sales as before. There's just a lot more dollars there....

Boy, I'll bet they're sorry for that... I can just picture them saying "Damn, it just ain't right that we're making so much money!!"

[Philter]

 

Say they make a 10% profit. So when gas sells for 1.80/gal, they make 0.18/gal profit. Now the price jumps to 3.40/gal

E

 

Except oil prices, which are the input for making gasoline, have tripled during the time that gasoline rose from $1.80 to $3.40... yes gas refiners' profits are up, but it is not a linear progression like you say.

 

Chip, best wishes to you and god speed... unfortunately the impact of events is unavoidable regardless of whether you understand why they are occuring.

[realtrance]

A coupla years ago my family rented a Subaru Forester for a trip; it had a little computer in it that realtime calculated (roughly, I'm sure) the actual MPG you were getting at different rates of acceleration, at different speeds.

 

The immediate learning was that lead-footing it off a red light is THE number one place you're burning fuel primarily to impress strangers in your immediate environs. What's the point of that, I ask you?!

 

So I've decided to take the approach I learned as a kid in driver's ed: always drive as if there's a raw, uncracked egg between your foot and the gas pedal. Easy as she goes.

 

I'm not the first one off at the light, and I make a lot of people in econo-cars, overweight Mercedes and big trucks feel good as they zip past and around my sports car at 15 MPG... while I realize I'm getting my gas mileage on my decade-old, totally paid-off, low-insurance car to go from 20MPG to 26MPG just as a result of this change in driving strategy.

 

Try it; if you don't feel the need to impress strangers with your ability to consume fuel uselessly at red lights, you might discover you're able to get a helluva lot better fuel consumption out of your car than you thought!

[doug osborne]

I have a little device called a Scangauge II.



It plugs into the computer port on any modern car, and it shows real-time MPG, GPM, RMP, MPH, and lots of other things. Well worth it to know exactly how much gas you are using, and what you can do to conserve.

[philbo]

Wow that thing is pretty cool!

[realtrance]

So how did you manage to take such a sharp picture of it while you were doing 129mph? Or were you not the one driving?

[Philter]

 

The devil is in the details as far as petro profits go. Say they make a 10% profit. So when gas sells for 1.80/gal, they make 0.18/gal profit. Now the price jumps to 3.40/gal - - and they make 0.34/gal profit. Suddenly the profits have doubled for the same amount of product, and the same amount of work/investment/processing on their part. They can still report profit is the same percentage of sales as before. There's just a lot more dollars there.... Boy, I'll bet they're sorry for that... I can just picture them saying "Damn, it just ain't right that we're making so much money!!"

 

 

compare to:

 

 

Exxon Mobile Earnings Fall With Gasoline Profits November 1, 2007 NEW YORK ( Reuters ) - Exxon Mobil Corp. said on Thursday its third-quarter earnings declined 10 percent, missing expectations on sharply dropping profits from gasoline production and lower natural gas prices. Exxon's stock fell about 2.7 percent in afternoon trading and was a weight on the Dow Jones Industrial Average <.dji> , which was down 1.9 percent. Margins to produce and sell gasoline and other refined products fell sharply during the quarter, accounting for more than two-thirds of the drop in profits from last year. The plummeting refining margins cut into gains from an oil price surge that saw crude hit $78 in September before marching on to new records in the fourth quarter. Net income at the world's largest publicly traded company fell to $9.41 billion, or $1.70 a share, from $10.49 billion, or $1.77 a share, a year earlier. Analysts, on average, had expected the company to earn $1.74 a share, according to Reuters Estimates. Refining margins crashed by as much as 90 percent from record highs reached in May, as the summer driving season ended, oil prices surged and gasoline prices did not keep up with the price increases.

 

 

 

Still waiting for folks to catch on to what's happening.