Members woodsmandan Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 ...an Epiphone and refinishing the guitar in nitro... Worth the effort ? Is there a way to strip it off, or the only way is to sand it off ? Will there be a real sound improvement ? See, I love this new Epi I got. But I don't like the feel of this thick poly finish...it was the same with my Wildkat, great guitar, plastic feel. Especially on the neck... The only Epi that I loved the feel of the neck's finish was a "vintage" G-400...I wish I had kept this one... So I was thinking those 2 solotions : - light sanding to obtain a "faded" type of feel...- strip all the poly off and refinish it... What do you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rock-lobster Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 eh, if you're not wanting a different finish color specifically i wouldn't do it. too little effect for too much work of course, if you want to sand down the neck that's another story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woodsmandan Posted May 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 eh, if you're not wanting a different finish color specifically i wouldn't do it.too little effect for too much workof course, if you want to sand down the neck that's another story well, if I was going to refinish it, I would change the colour from trans red to that walnut stain of the 70's SG's...always loved that colour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grantus Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 A "real" sound improvement? Hmmm, I'd think there are a lot of other things you could do that would make more of a difference than the finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 stripping poly is a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members golias Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 I've never had any luck using chemicals to remove poly finish from guitars. If you're doing a solid color, and the original finish is in good condition, the best thing to to is "rough it up" with light sanding and paint over it. But if you want wood grain to show through (or if the original finish is in terrible shape), then you're talking about scrubbing the paint off. Instead of sandpaper I had the most success (on flat surfaces, anyway) with a special rotary pad that you can get at the hardware store specifically for paint stripping. You put it on the end of a hand drill and go crazy with it. It won't scuff up the wood at all, but will gradually take off the finish. A few "gotchas": 1. That big pad doesn't get the edges very well, especially inside the horns, so you're going to be doing a little detail sanding, and that will be the most tedious and difficult part of the job. 2. Wear a mask and goggles when power-sanding. The dust from that finish can be toxic. Even if it's not, it's nasty. 3. Buy cheap hand drills. Plan on destroying one now and then, especially if you strip multiple guitars. The paint dust gets into the vents of the drill and jams up the motor. 4. Don't do this project unless you consider this kind of work to be FUN! If you have the capacity to make a decent hourly wage, you're probably better off, dollar-per-hour-wise, just selling your guitar and buying one with the finish you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woodsmandan Posted May 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 A "real" sound improvement? Hmmm, I'd think there are a lot of other things you could do that would make more of a difference than the finish. I know, I already swapped pick ups. Sound is not the reason I would do this, FEEL is. I was just wondering, if I do it, will it do any good to the sound as well. People seems to always brad about nitro finishes being sooo much better than poly for the tone...I just wanted opinions about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grantus Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 Sounds like good advice from Golias. Painting over it would negate any tone improvements the OP is looking for. Although I suspect the tone improvements would be minimal. Edit: Oh, I didn't see that tone wasn't the major reason for doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leisure Lee Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 The finish does have some effect on the sound and tone, but you would really have to strain you ears to be able to notice the difference. MHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members golias Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 People say that thick poly finishes deaden sound, and there may be a germ of truth to it, but I think a lot of that comes from the fact that thick poly finishes are often used so you can be less picky about the woods you use (and the joins, if it's more than once piece). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woodsmandan Posted May 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 I've never had any luck using chemicals to remove poly finish from guitars. If you're doing a solid color, and the original finish is in good condition, the best thing to to is "rough it up" with light sanding and paint over it. But if you want wood grain to show through (or if the original finish is in terrible shape), then you're talking about scrubbing the paint off. Instead of sandpaper I had the most success (on flat surfaces, anyway) with a special rotary pad that you can get at the hardware store specifically for paint stripping. You put it on the end of a hand drill and go crazy with it. It won't scuff up the wood at all, but will gradually take off the finish. A few "gotchas": 1. That big pad doesn't get the edges very well, especially inside the horns, so you're going to be doing a little detail sanding, and that will be the most tedious and difficult part of the job. 2. Wear a mask and goggles when power-sanding. The dust from that finish can be toxic. Even if it's not, it's nasty. 3. Buy cheap hand drills. Plan on destroying one now and then, especially if you strip multiple guitars. The paint dust gets into the vents of the drill and jams up the motor. 4. Don't do this project unless you consider this kind of work to be FUN! If you have the capacity to make a decent hourly wage, you're probably better off, dollar-per-hour-wise, just selling your guitar and buying one with the finish you want. Thanks ! I plan on buying a 70's SG (my first "good" guitar was a '71 SG, long time gone now, and I always wanted one again), I'm still looking for the good deal and the right guitar... Yes, I would under take this as a "fun" thing to do...I got this Epi SG real cheap and it's player, a good one. But that darn poly finish feels so wrong to my hands...I just think, maybe it'll be fun to tinker it and make it my very own by modding the hell out of it...it already got new pups, new machine heads and a Bigsby added to it...now a refinish just seems the thing to do (or maybe just sand off the back of the neck) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 People say that thick poly finishes deaden sound, and there may be a germ of truth to it, but I think a lot of that comes from the fact that thick poly finishes are often used so you can be less picky about the woods you use (and the joins, if it's more than once piece). I suspect thats true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Townshend Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 Heat gun, my friend. Easily the most efficient way to remove poly, in my experience anyway. Just heat it up and scrape away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 Heat gun, my friend. Easily the most efficient way to remove poly, in my experience anyway. Just heat it up and scrape away. Heat can be dangerous. You run the risk of weakening glue joints or warping/burning the wood. Its def an option, but extreme care needs to be taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SurveyofSociety Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 how can a poly finish on the top of a guitar affect "feel" ? i don't think i'm enough of a snob when it comes to Poly versus Nitro but why {censored}ing bother :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woodsmandan Posted May 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 how can a poly finish on the top of a guitar affect "feel" ? i don't think i'm enough of a snob when it comes to Poly versus Nitro but why fucking bother :poke: Why fucking bother ??? It's feel man, it's not a snobbery thing, it's just that on this guitar, as it was with my other Epi (wildkat) I don't like how the neck feels in my hand...like it's plastic...it's hard to put words on a that but it just bothers me a bit...I like fender necks finishes, old gibbys, but not this Epiphone...but i like everything else about the guitar, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 Why fucking bother ??? It's feel man, it's not a snobbery thing, it's just that on this guitar, as it was with my other Epi (wildkat) I don't like how the neck feels in my hand...like it's plastic...it's hard to put words on a that but it just bothers me a bit...I like fender necks finishes, old gibbys, but not this Epiphone...but i like everything else about the guitar, so... I understand that totally. I don't even like the way some finishes feel under my right forearm. Poly can be sticky, like the vinyl seats of an old station wagon with no AC in the middle of summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SurveyofSociety Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 Why fucking bother ??? It's feel man, it's not a snobbery thing, it's just that on this guitar, as it was with my other Epi (wildkat) I don't like how the neck feels in my hand...like it's plastic...it's hard to put words on a that but it just bothers me a bit...I like fender necks finishes, old gibbys, but not this Epiphone...but i like everything else about the guitar, so... oh , sorry.... if you're talking about the neck then that's cool. just thought you were talking about refinishing the whole top of the guitar it's just i read a lot about this business of poly finishes making a guitar sound shit and not letting the wood breath and all that..... but i have a gibson 2005 LP Std sounds fucking excellent to me (which is all that counts ) and i also have an Epi Joe Perry LP with Gibson Burstbuckers which also sounds animal, it has a slightly angrier tone compared to the Gibson kind of but to me sounds fantastic and not cheap at all..... and yeah i'm assuming it has a cheap ass poly fotoflame finish ..... but the back and neck was finished with like a black satin.... not sure if that's poly or not but it feels wonderful..... rock on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Monkeyman Joe Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 nitro is actually stickier then poly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 nitro is actually stickier then poly That depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woodsmandan Posted May 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 oh , sorry.... if you're talking about the neck then that's cool. just thought you were talking about refinishing the whole top of the guitar it's just i read a lot about this business of poly finishes making a guitar sound shit and not letting the wood breath and all that..... but i have a gibson 2005 LP Std sounds fucking excellent to me (which is all that counts ) and i also have an Epi Joe Perry LP with Gibson Burstbuckers which also sounds animal, it has a slightly angrier tone compared to the Gibson kind of but to me sounds fantastic and not cheap at all..... and yeah i'm assuming it has a cheap ass poly fotoflame finish ..... but the back and neck was finished with like a black satin.... not sure if that's poly or not but it feels wonderful..... rock on Well the neck is what bothers me, but I am thinking of maybe refinishing the whole thing while I'm going...and the sound part of it is nothing really, it was just a question... you mention satin finish on your guitar neck...maybe that's what I'm looking for...I really loved the feel of the finish on the "vintage" G-400, and I guess you could call it satin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pope on a Rope Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 Heat can be dangerous. You run the risk of weakening glue joints or warping/burning the wood. Its def an option, but extreme care needs to be taken. Heat guns work best for polyurethane or polyester finishes. Damage only happens if you overheat things. You shouldn't be burning or warping anything unless you are a hack. You only need to soften the finish to remove it. There should be no burning involved. If there is any scorching or discoloration then you are putting too much heat on one spot for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 Heat guns work best for polyurethane or polyester finishes. Damage only happens if you overheat things. You shouldn't be burning or warping anything unless you are a hack. You only need to soften the finish to remove it. There should be no burning involved. If there is any scorching or discoloration then you are putting too much heat on one spot for too long. Yup. I understand that, but I offered a warning because someone who has never done it may have a tendency to overdue it. There are alot of hacks out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SurveyofSociety Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 Well the neck is what bothers me, but I am thinking of maybe refinishing the whole thing while I'm going...and the sound part of it is nothing really, it was just a question...you mention satin finish on your guitar neck...maybe that's what I'm looking for...I really loved the feel of the finish on the "vintage" G-400, and I guess you could call it satin... i don't know what other Les Pauls on the market have the same satin finish on the neck and back as my Epi joe perry but i fyou can find one just have a feel . it's very slick and quite nice.. it is thicker than the finish on my Gibson of course but to me it does not feel cheap or tacky in the slightest bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted May 6, 2008 Members Share Posted May 6, 2008 i don't know what other Les Pauls on the market have the same satin finish on the neck and back as my Epi joe perry but i fyou can find one just have a feel . it's very slick and quite nice.. it is thicker than the finish on my Gibson of course but to me it does not feel cheap or tacky in the slightest bit. Quality ranges in poly finishes as well. Some feel quite nice, and some don't. Some are almost two polished for me, and I think that adds to the sticky feel. I roughed up the finish on one of my poly guitars with a light abrasive and it feels much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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