Members BlueStrat Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 WRONG WRONG WRONG...It's advertizing that tells people what music to like (Radio, VH1. MTV, Print, etc) Just like it's advertizing that tells people how to dress, what games are cool and just about everything else...People want to be told...It has nothing to do with whether the music they are told to buy is good or not. That may have been true 25 years ago, but today there are so many outlets for music and so much of it available that I don't see how it's even possible for any advertising to have that kind of control anymore. There are no gatekeepers anymore. The door to the stores have been thrown open with the advent of the internet and the PC, and people are free to take what they want. My kids are all owners of Ipods. Each one has a totally different and unique playlist. So do all their friends. It's pretty rare that they have the same stuff on their personal music players. Music isn't designer jeans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 Like Dean said, why would I spend even four bucks if it meant I had to go get in the car and drive around to various outlets to find the hard copy I'm looking for, when I can just get it off my computer, often for free if I really wanted to steal it? You probably wouldn't get a hard copy for $4. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think Reznor was talking about selling CD's in stores for $4 -although, that's probably about what they're worth. But for $4 you could download a hi-quality copy of the entire album versus trying to find decent copies of all the songs on Gnutella, waiting in que lines, slow connetions, not being cut off in the middle of your download. No, it'd be way easier to just pay the four bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 You probably wouldn't get a hard copy for $4. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think Reznor was talking about selling CD's in stores for $4 - although, that's probably about what they're worth. But for $4 you could download a hi-quality copy of the entire album versus trying to find decent copies of all the songs on Gnutella, waiting in que lines, slow connetions, not being cut off in the middle of your download. No, it'd be way easier to just pay the four bucks. Well, what do I know? BTW, don't you have to have a credit card to do legal downloads? How many middle and high school kids have one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franknputer Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 pfft...they only have to have access to a credit card. You think they pay their cell phone bills with quarters? (You think they pay those bills at all?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 That may have been true 25 years ago, but today there are so many outlets for music and so much of it available that I don't see how it's even possible for any advertising to have that kind of control anymore. There are no gatekeepers anymore. The door to the stores have been thrown open with the advent of the internet and the PC, and people are free to take what they want. My kids are all owners of Ipods. Each one has a totally different and unique playlist. So do all their friends. It's pretty rare that they have the same stuff on their personal music players. Music isn't designer jeans. well i'm out in the bars and pubs almost every night playing and from my informal survey's, people still get their muslc from the Radio primarily as well as VH1 and TV......People driving to and fro mostly listen to popular radio in their cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 well i'm out in the bars and pubs almost every night playing and from my informal survey's, people still get their muslc from the Radio primarily as well as VH1 and TV......People driving to and fro mostly listen to popular radio in their cars. 'Popular music' is the key word. It's popular because people like it. How can you believe that the industry controls what people like when 85% of the new acts that sign up with each studio fail to go anywhere at all. If your theory was correct, they'd have nothing like an 85% failure rate. They work by just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. When something does stick, they wear it out as fast as possible before people get tired of it and move to the next thing. But clearly the public drives the process. They don't go out and actively seek out new music, or most of them don't. But they are exposed to a wide variety of sources these days, that no one can control, as mentioned above. Many movies these days are basically personal playlists of the director/writer for that matter. Look at a movie like Garden State, which turned me on to a number of new artists I knew nothing about. I pop into the All Songs Considered web site periodically and find all kinds of interesting new stuff. There are new music shows on the local rock station, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 20, 2007 Members Share Posted September 20, 2007 WRONG WRONG WRONG...It's advertizing that tells people what music to like (Radio, VH1. MTV, Print, etc) Just like it's advertizing that tells people how to dress, what games are cool and just about everything else...People want to be told...It has nothing to do with whether the music they are told to buy is good or not. Then why do a lot of the high school kids that I run into listen to a lot of classic rock? Who do you think are buying those CDs anyway? Not everyone is a complete brainless sheep. Drive past a high school. I guarantee you'll see kids with AC/DC and Hendrix and Zeppelin and Doors shirts. It's easy to write *everyone* off. Yeah. It's really easy. You can always find stupid sheep anywhere to "validate" your opinion. And hey, it makes you feel like you're just a little smarter than everyone else. Hoo-boy. But scratch around a little bit, and you might find yourself wondering...who the hell are buying all those "Dark Side of the Moon" CDs? Haven't the Baby Boomers replenished their {censored}ing LPs already? Weird...they keep selling and selling. Who's going to all those AC/DC shows? Who's buying all those T-shirts? What's going on? Why doesn't *everyone* fit my neat little criteria of following the flock? Why do the kids know all these songs? Why are there tons of kids who go to Lavender Diamond or Gram Rabbit shows? Why are there tons of kids who go to see cool bands still? Why is live music being played in "hipster" neighborhoods like Silverlake and Echo Park? Why can these kids tie the music back to Gram Parsons and '60s bands? What's going on here? I've got a suggestion. Stop focusing on stupid brainless sheep, and start making some music that actually means something. Stop making yourself feel good because you're "smarter than everyone else" and start connecting with people through music and intelligent discourse. Not *everyone*, including high school kids, are as stupid as you think they are. Talk to a few of 'em and you might see. I probably meet about 80-100 high school kids a year through my work. You'd be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 20, 2007 Members Share Posted September 20, 2007 Then why do a lot of the high school kids that I run into listen to a lot of classic rock? Who do you think are buying those CDs anyway? Not everyone is a complete brainless sheep. Drive past a high school. I guarantee you'll see kids with AC/DC and Hendrix and Zeppelin and Doors shirts. It's easy to write *everyone* off. Yeah. It's really easy. You can always find stupid sheep anywhere to "validate" your opinion. And hey, it makes you feel like you're just a little smarter than everyone else. Hoo-boy. But scratch around a little bit, and you might find yourself wondering...who the hell are buying all those "Dark Side of the Moon" CDs? Haven't the Baby Boomers replenished their {censored}ing LPs already? Weird...they keep selling and selling. Who's going to all those AC/DC shows? Who's buying all those T-shirts? What's going on? Why doesn't *everyone* fit my neat little criteria of following the flock? Why do the kids know all these songs? Why are there tons of kids who go to Lavender Diamond or Gram Rabbit shows? Why are there tons of kids who go to see cool bands still? Why is live music being played in "hipster" neighborhoods like Silverlake and Echo Park? Why can these kids tie the music back to Gram Parsons and '60s bands? What's going on here?I've got a suggestion. Stop focusing on stupid brainless sheep, and start making some music that actually means something. Stop making yourself feel good because you're "smarter than everyone else" and start connecting with people through music and intelligent discourse. Not *everyone*, including high school kids, are as stupid as you think they are. Talk to a few of 'em and you might see. I probably meet about 80-100 high school kids a year through my work. You'd be surprised. I was generalizing..NOT saying everyone was brainless sheep..I do think the majority of Adults out there are and like a PORTION of what is thrown at them...Many are savy, have killer taste and seek out great music...Kids are much more hip and honestly, I really wasn't talking about children. I think I know what i'm talkin about since I'm out playing the bars and pubs 5 nights a week and I hear what's requested...I would wager i'm out there as much or more then 90% of the people on these forums and by and large I still get the same requests...CLASSIC stuff...Hip hop dance bull{censored} is popular as well...I agree that classic rock is still in HUGE demand...For one thing in almost EVERY market there are classic rock stations churning out the same songs (abiet GREAT songs) as they've been playing since the 60's and 70's...How the {censored} would teenagers NOT know them and since much of it is great classic stuff I would expect them to like it..ALL my 15 year old nephew listens to is classic rock and he expressly told me that the new stuff that they play on radio is {censored}..Most of his friends hate it too...Look at what sells as far as new stuff goes. It's the {censored} they push bro...Flat out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted September 20, 2007 Members Share Posted September 20, 2007 There's great stuff out there. The White Stripes, My Chemical Romance, Arcade Fire, System of a Down, Artic Monkeys, Snow Patrol, Mars Volta, Tool, etc... and many others who are skipping my now tired mind. It's not uncommon for some percentage of teenagers to rebel against their own music instead of rebelling against their parent's. I had a certain amount of that myself at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted September 20, 2007 Members Share Posted September 20, 2007 The culture of "free" music is destroying the record business not just the record companies. I can't argue with that. I still think it is interesting that there's a lot of "free" music out there, and it is so devalued that we won't bother clogging up our disks and iPods with it even though it is "free". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted September 21, 2007 Members Share Posted September 21, 2007 There isn't much out there that's even worth stealing anymore, that's the real problem. Another jaded soul living in the past... sad. The reality: If music can be downloaded FREE, kids will not buy CDs no matter how cheap. Thats it. EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted September 21, 2007 Members Share Posted September 21, 2007 I have never, not once in my life of passionate enagagement with music, ever ever witnessed a time when a lot of people of discernment were NOT complaining that there was "nothing good anymore." Only it used to be the cockrock and blues theivery of Led Zepplin they were complaining about. Now they love that {censored}. Whatever. I'd say confine yourself to either buying the stuff or getting one-off burned copies from friends who bought it--One at a time sharing like we used to do with cassettes. Posting someone's protected music for universal download prolly ain't right, so I won't do that...except once when I needed some Little Willie John tracks... now WAVES Platinuum Bundle, on the other hand! Please steal these plugins! ; ) Talk about exploitation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 21, 2007 Members Share Posted September 21, 2007 I think I know what i'm talkin about since I'm out playing the bars and pubs 5 nights a week and I hear what's requested...I Well, drunk people trying to get their party on at a bar is not the most accurate barometer of music tastes, is it? Besides, what would happen if I got a bunch of friends to request Brian Eno's "Music For Airports" at most bars? People are there to hear the familiar, popular, upbeat, danceable stuff. Anyway, at the clubs and bars I go to, they frequently play 1970s Nigerian funk, The White Stripes, dub, electronica, psychedelia, and/or classic rock, but I recognize that the clubs I go to may be different from clubs in other cities, and that my tastes are different than many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted September 21, 2007 Members Share Posted September 21, 2007 When the perceived value of music changes from what it is: worthless/background music to something where people actually sit down to listen to it (not happening) then you will see sales go up. Until then, its a sad state. And I don`t think its changing any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 21, 2007 Members Share Posted September 21, 2007 My perceived value of an MP3 purchased from the iTunes Store is quite low right now. My girlfriend just bought a couple of these songs for me so I could play these at my school, but there's not much use for me if I can't burn them to a CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted September 21, 2007 Members Share Posted September 21, 2007 Ken- I`m talking about the publics overall attitude towards music: Its background music. Even now as I`m in my office, a radio is playing lightly in the background, no one is really listening to it. Its just background noise which we can`t seem to live w/o. Music was once something you had to hear live and then that changed (thankfully in many ways) but the value of it also dropped. Now that you can get it FREE, the value is zero, like dirt. So how can we possibly expect the public to place value on it when its being given away for nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted September 21, 2007 Members Share Posted September 21, 2007 My perceived value of an MP3 purchased from the iTunes Store is quite low right now. My girlfriend just bought a couple of these songs for me so I could play these at my school, but there's not much use for me if I can't burn them to a CD. If you have a Mac with a CD burner, you can burn them to a CD with iTunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 21, 2007 Members Share Posted September 21, 2007 My perceived value of an MP3 purchased from the iTunes Store is quite low right now. My girlfriend just bought a couple of these songs for me so I could play these at my school, but there's not much use for me if I can't burn them to a CD.You can burn them....Download from iTunes and burn a CD. Take it to school or listen in your car. I just think they limit the number of CD's you can burn directly from the downloaded apple codec so to get around this, you just re-import the tunes after you've burned them once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cry Logic Posted September 22, 2007 Members Share Posted September 22, 2007 Well, what do I know? BTW, don't you have to have a credit card to do legal downloads? How many middle and high school kids have one? Here in Australia, iTunes sell recharge cards at the local supermarket. It's just like recharging a Pre Paid cell phone..... Don't they do that in the U.S.A. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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