Faith Hill Giving Fans Lectures/Advise on Proper Public Behavior.

[rlindsey0]

 

Just because something doesn't appeal to you that doesn't mean it is rubbish. You are entitle to expressed your opinion and I fully respect that.

 

 

Very true, and a fair statement. Disagreement with an opinion doesn't, by itself, make that opinion rubbish. What makes an argument rubbish is that it makes no sense or is contrary to fact.

 

And of course one has the right to express an opinion even if someone else thinks it's nonsense. That is another right that should always be supported. What one does NOT have the right to do, however, is is to expect anyone else to refrain from criticizing that opinion.

[Agent420]

I think she should build a wall on stage.

[Billster]

Hey Icon, your arguments don't make sense. You are blaming the victim. Temptation is not a valid defense - I don't care if someone walks down the street naked, I'm not allowed to grab a handful.

 

 

There is a word I like to use. Facilitate/facilitation. There are areas in the state I live that you cannot wear valuable jewelries or leave valuable visible in your parked car. Because it ill get stolen or you maybe attacked or robbed. Is this right? No. But by wearing it, you are also facilitating the robbery.

 

 

There's drunk drivers on every road in this country, am I facilitating them causing an accident by attempting to use the same road? One can be cautious, but at a certain point you have to live your life.

 

And really, none of those scenarios compare to the origin of this discussion which is a fan violating the personal space of a performer. Buying a ticket to an event doesn't entitle someone to become a participant or to make a spectacle of themselves within the context of the event. Again, if I ran onto a football field I would be evacuated by the authorities rapidly.

 

Moving on: Assault

 

Assault and battery

 

 

related but distinct crimes, battery being the unlawful application of physical force to another and assault being an attempt to commit battery or an act that causes another reasonably to fear an imminent battery. These concepts are found in most legal systems and together with manslaughter and murder are designed to protect the individual from rude and undesired

[Billster]

I could, for instance, argue that the moon is made of green cheese. That would be a nonsensical argument, being easily disprovable by facts.

 

Everyone knows the moon is made of Blue Cheese. Why do you think people use the expression "Once in a blue moon"?

 

 

Other than that, your post was right on the money.

[audioicon]

 

Hey Icon, your arguments don't make sense. You are blaming the victim. Temptation is not a valid defense - I don't care if someone walks down the street naked, I'm not allowed to grab a handful.       There's drunk drivers on every road in this country, am I facilitating them causing an accident by attempting to use the same road? One can be cautious, but at a certain point you have to live your life.   And really, none of those scenarios compare to the origin of this discussion which is a fan violating the personal space of a performer. Buying a ticket to an event doesn't entitle someone to become a participant or to make a spectacle of themselves within the context of the event. Again, if I ran onto a football field I would be evacuated by the authorities rapidly.   Moving on: Assault   Assault and battery       Just for clarity, let's remember that legal definition. Assault is the threat, battery is the action. So the act of unwanted touching is actually battery. Battery really cannot occur without assault, and informally speaking most people say "assault" when they mean battery. The classic example of delineating assault from battery is someone waving a gun at a group, then shooting only one person. They have committed assault against the entire group and battery against only one person.   designed to protect the individual from rude and undesired

[audioicon]

 

I'm with AudioIcon. You put forth that sexy bigger than life image, and then put yourself where your rabid fans can come into contact with you, don't be surprised when you get grabbed. And yes, it is hypocrisy to react in shock as if you didn't think it might happen. Whether he deserved it or not is irrelevant. Now, has anyone actually seen the video of the grab in question? Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSDJe4I8h0A&NR=1 I don't see anyone jumping on stage and grabbing this guy. Actually, the closest thing I can see to a ball grab is someone's hand touching his leg. People are blowing this way out of proportion.

 

 

WOW! I can't believe she said loudly through the Mic "you don't go grabbing somebody else's balls!!" What trashy advise.

 

AI

[Super 8]

..

[Super 8]

 

Hey Icon, your arguments don't make sense. You are blaming the victim. Temptation is not a valid defense - I don't care if someone walks down the street naked, I'm not allowed to grab a handful.

 

 

Of course not. But the naked person shouldn't be surprised if someone does grab them.

 

 

 

There's drunk drivers on every road in this country, am I facilitating them causing an accident by attempting to use the same road?

 

 

According to the insurance company you are. You assume part of the blame for the accident just by being there. You should also know enough to stay clear of situations where you are more likely to be in an accident with a drunk driver.

 

 

And really, none of those scenarios compare to the origin of this discussion which is a fan violating the personal space of a performer.

 

 

True, which is why you don't put your personal space near the fans.

[Billster]

 

if a fan is creating a problem for you, you tell security and they'll take it from there. It's in everyone's best interest.

 

 

The clip I saw showed McGraw waving an arm and then pointing at the woman in the front row. I would say it looked like he did call security.

[audioicon]

I'm just lost for words how some people in this forum understands/interpret the English language. During Michael Jackson's Bad Tour, a fan tried to jumped on stage and tore off her bra and was bare chested, did Michael say hey! Put on your bra? Come on guys, it's the show business. Do you never expect a fan to jump on stage.

 

As for Jeff beating up fans because they jump on stage, hit a person on their head with your guitar and caused brain damage or or death and you have to deal with that. That is if you have any conscience.

 

This is the only place in the world that musicians/rockers talk about beating up a fan for coming on stage is just sad.

 

WOW! I didn't know a fan jumping on stage was such a strange occurrence that mandates the beating with a guitar.

 

AI

[audioicon]

 

The clip I saw showed McGraw waving an arm and then pointing at the woman in the front row. I would say it looked like he did call security.

 

 

 

Hey was calling security after he claimed a fan took his ring not because a fan grabbed him.

 

AI

[Billster]

True, which is why you don't put your personal space near the fans.

 

That's a personal choice. I submit to you the idea that part of the appeal of popular performers is the opportunity to connect with them. Should they not sign autographs, do in-store appearances, or other promotional events where **God forbid** they might encounter fans :eek: ???

[Billster]

 

So lets get personal. You are going out for a night out. The parking lot of the establishment you are visiting has been having auto break in and there is even a sign that advise patrons not to leave valuable visible. Are you going to leave your IPOD on the dash? Will you be facilitating robbery? I know it will be theft and wrong for someone to break in your car but should you leave the IPOD there? I look forward to reading your answer. AI

 

 

OK, I lock any valuables out of sight in the trunk or glovebox. I was warned.

 

How does that compare to Mr. McGraw's situation? I don't think it's fair to performers to say that being at the edge of the stage, near the audience, (i.e doing their job) opens them up to abberant social behavior.

[Super 8]

Remind me not to hire you as a lawyer if I'm ever run down by a drunk. Your statement is completely incorrect.

 

Guess you should have been with me some years ago when I was hit at an intersection. I wasn't even moving!

 

 

That's a personal choice. I submit to you the idea that part of the appeal of popular performers is the opportunity to connect with them. Should they not sign autographs, do in-store appearances, or other promotional events where **God forbid** they might encounter fans :eek: ???

 

You hedge your bets when you deal with the public as a celeb. John Lennon was just walking on the sidewalk with his wife minding his own business.

[franknputer]

 

So lets get personal. You are going out for a night out. The parking lot of the establishment you are visiting has been having auto break in and there is even a sign that advise patrons not to leave valuable visible. Are you going to leave your IPOD on the dash? Will you be facilitating robbery? I know it will be theft and wrong for someone to break in your car but should you leave the IPOD there? I look forward to reading your answer. AI

 

More to the point: You left your iPod on the dashboard; someone breaks your window to steal it; You walk up on them with your iPod in hand - is the correct reaction to just shrug & say "Wow, my bad for leaving it there..." and let them leave?

[audioicon]

OK, I lock any valuables out of sight in the trunk or glovebox. I was warned. How does that compare to Mr. McGraw's situation? I don't think it's fair to performers to say that being at the edge of the stage, near the audience, (i.e doing their job) opens them up to abberant social behavior.

 

Okay with all honesty Bill, I'm not saying the fan was right to grab anyone but should you not expect it? I listened to your music by the way, very good. For most rock and other wild genres, these things comes with the turf. The artist should not see it as strange.

 

If you look at the whole thing, Tim and Faith benefited from it, they got lots of publicity. So they should even thanked the fan for grabbing his balls.

 

AI

[franknputer]

BTW, Super8 - the opinion of the insurance company is designed to keep them from paying, not to designate right or wrong.

[Rabid]

Maybe I'm missing the full story but I never read in any paper or news outlet that Tim McGraw was sexually assaulted. ...

 

Grabbing someone by the crotch is sexual assault. If you don't believe me try it with the next policeman or lawyer you see.

[LiveMusic]

re: the video, I remember this as being two separate events. Once, McGraw lost his ring to a fan but later got it back. Another incident being the fan grabbing his gonads.

[Billster]

I listened to your music by the way, very good.

 

Thanks for listening. Tell two friends (and they told two friends, and they told two friends, and...)

[Lee Flier]

 

Okay with all honesty Bill, I'm not saying the fan was right to grab anyone but should you not expect it?

 

 

Yes, you should expect that fans will sometimes overstep their boundaries. That doesn't make it wrong to call them on it.

 

I was once at a Drivin'N'Cryin show where there were a lot of college aged fans who thought it was cool to jump up on the stage and dive off into the crowd. The band tolerated it for awhile, but then more and more kids thought it was OK to do this to the point where it was detracting from the band's ability to perform and the audience's ability to enjoy the performance. No one is entitled to jump on someone else's stage and make a spectacle out of themselves - YOU are not who everyone paid to see, and if someone is acting like a jerk in public there is nothing wrong with it being pointed out. That's the only way people learn.

 

The lead singer finally said, "Hey all you kids who are jumping off the stage, if you really need to be held and carried around that badly, why don't you go home to your mom?"

 

A perfectly appropriate (and entertaining) response, IMO.

[Super 8]

 

Really, I disagree with that. Buying a concert ticket is not a license to become part of the spectacle.

 

 

Nobody is saying it is. But that doesn't stop some people from doing it anyway.

 

 

I know there were other issues going on with the lunatic that committed that crime, but nonetheless...

 

 

Nonetheless what, Billster? Follow your logic through to conclusion.

 

Most fans are nice normal people. But some fans are not mentally stable and could pose a danger (or a grope:freak:), and it's often impossible to tell the good apples from the bad ones. John Lennon had autographed Mark Chapman's album just hours before Chapman shot him. If Lennon had known this guy was insane, would he have still talked to him and signed his album, or would he have kept his distance? What if he thought there was a reasonable chance this guy was insane?

 

When you're a celebrity everyone wants a piece of you. Most people will be satisfied with just a little attention and an autograph, but some want more. I read now that in a different incident someone grabbed the ring from McGraw's finger. Now someone has grabbed his balls. What does that tell you? It tells me that maybe he's getting a little too close to his fans.

 

Does he deserve this? Do fans have license to do this? No, of course not, but it still happened. And it all could have been avoided by not putting yourself in a situation where you could be taken advantage of.

 

Again, this is common sense.

[Billster]

Again,

 

 

I submit to you the idea that part of the appeal of popular performers is the opportunity to connect with them.

 

[audioicon]

Yes, you should expect that fans will sometimes overstep their boundaries. That doesn't make it wrong to call them on it. I was once at a Drivin'N'Cryin show where there were a lot of college aged fans who thought it was cool to jump up on the stage and dive off into the crowd. The band tolerated it for awhile, but then more and more kids thought it was OK to do this to the point where it was detracting from the band's ability to perform and the audience's ability to enjoy the performance. No one is entitled to jump on someone else's stage and make a spectacle out of themselves - YOU are not who everyone paid to see, and if someone is actinglike a jerk in public there is nothing wrong with it being pointed out. That's the only way people learn. The lead singer finally said, "Hey all you kids who are jumping off the stage, if you really need to be held and carried around that badly, why don't you go home to your mom?" A perfectly appropriate (and entertaining) response, IMO.

 

 

Some genre or bands are well know or can fit in a "ruff" image like say keith Richards kicking a guy off stage, it may appear he's a tough guy. But lets say Gavin Dagraw or Daniel Pouder was playing his piano, a fan jumped on stage and he leaves the Piano or Mic and start yelling or addressing the fan, it will be looked at as arrogance.

 

The point is McGraw has an image the female fans wanted more off, he went to the crowd, so a female grabbed his balls. Security should have handled it.

I'd say he knew some fan "may" grabbed him. But my point is why was it a big deal to her? Fans grabbed people all the time.

 

Stay the hell away from the crowd if you don't want people grabbing you. Maybe she made a mistake and was going for the Mic to sing along when she caught his balls. :D

 

 

It shows a lot of character.

 

AI

[Super 8]

 

Yes, you should expect that fans will sometimes overstep their boundaries. That doesn't make it wrong to call them on it.

 

 

Actually, I think it is wrong. The Drivin'N'Cryin show is not an appropriate example. Nobody was singled out. At the Tim and Faith show someone was.

As I pointed out earlier, what if some people in the audience heard what Faith said, got pissed that anyone would dare touch Tim like that and decided to beat the fan into a pulp. I could easily see confrontations like that happening. Nobody knew what was going on until Faith opened her mouth. She just as easily could have told security and had the matter dealt with professionally. How she did it was totally uncool.