Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Wondering. Drawbacks? I'm thinking of doing it to a 1967 SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Roberts Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 I've got a Garrison G-40 acoustic with the Buzz Feiten system. I honestly can't tell any difference between it and my other guitars. I don't think I'd pay to have it retrofitted on anything else I own, especially a vintage guitar. Just my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Dissenting opinion: it works amazingly well. Very rarely do guitars naturally have perfect intonation across all strings at all registers of the fretboard. Every guitar I've played that has been given the Buzzy thing is perfectly in tune, everywhere. I've only heard it on electrics, so that's why my experience may be different than Alan's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members G Geezer Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 i've heard nothing but good about the guitars originally built with the Buzz System, but I haven't heard much about retrofitting? A 67 SG????????? WOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Wondering. Drawbacks? I'm thinking of doing it to a 1967 SG. If you care about resale value, I'd suggest not doing it to the 67 SG. Most people wanting a guitar like that would want it totally stock.IMHO, if you think you have intonation issues, try the Buzz Feiten on a cheap guitar first. Or, maybe just try one in a music store that already has it and see if you like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pk1fan Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 I have a Garrison GC-41-CE and it has made me a believer in the Buzz Feiten tuning system ! I play in DADGAD and other alt. tunings and the tuning is always right on , very sweet sound . When I play my other guitars that don't have the tuning system they sound kind of sour . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 If you care about resale value, I'd suggest not doing it to the 67 SG. Most people wanting a guitar like that would want it totally stock. IMHO, if you think you have intonation issues, try the Buzz Feiten on a cheap guitar first. Or, maybe just try one in a music store that already has it and see if you like it. Amplayer, first of all, thank you very much for pointing this out. I have no intentions of ever selling my guitar, and love playing it. I just want the notes to be more in tune! Also, my guitar is already not stock. I had to replace the tuning pegs and the pick-up switch, and I also have two non-stock pick-ups installed. It's awright, I don't have it for collecting, just playing. But you bring up an interesting point. Can one "un-retrofit" a guitar that's had a BF (uh, that stands for Buzz Feiten) tuning system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 A 67 SG????????? WOW I love my guitar. I bought this guitar when I was a kid for $300. I have several other guitars, some extremely nice, but despite this, I keep coming back to this one. I'm not saying it's the greatest guitar in the world, but when you develop a rapport with a guitar, it's such a cool thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 I've never owned an SG, and every time I play one, I'm like, "Why don't I have one of these?" The nice ones play like buttah. i'd say doing the Buzz retrofit is a great idea. Probably make you fall in love wth the axe all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Or, maybe just try one in a music store that already has it and see if you like it. I found a store that has a guitar like this in stock. I'm going to play it after work!! Cool! Thanks for the suggestion!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fuzzlabs Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 There are ways to improve intonation besides the Buzz Feiten system... see if you can find a local repairman who can make you an intonated nut for your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 A guitar will never be "in tune" because no equal-temperament based music can be. Many people think their guitars have intonation problems when they tune with harmonics and then play a chord across the neck and hear it's off -- then they may use relative tuning but "test" that with harmonics and, whaddya know? It's off. That doesn't mean your guitar's intonation is wrong (necessarily). It's a simple fact of life in the world created by equal temperament. But if we were to try to revert to the just intonation dictated by Pythagorean harmony -- we'd quickly see why equal temperament developed: without the approximations used by equal temperament we would be unable to modulate as we're accustomed and while major and minor chords would sound sweeter/truer -- diminished chords and flat fifths would just about peel the paint. Happily for us guitarists, the math of equal temperament works out so that fourths and fifths are the closest to the "true" harmonic relationship. So using harmonics comes close to working. Take a look at the chart below, which shows how far off from the pure, Pythagorean harmonic interval our equal temperament intervals are: Equal temperament (as measured in cents against the mathematically "correct" interval) unison: same minor second: 11.73 cents flat major second: 3.91 flat minor third: 15.64 flat major third: 13.69 sharp fourth: 1.96 sharp dim fifth: 17.85 sharp fifth: 1.96 flat minor sixth 13.69 flat sixth: 15.64 sharp minor seventh: 3.91 sharp major seventh: 11.73 sharp octave: equal Many of us slide players have no doubt noticed how far off the fret you have to play some notes to get them to sound right. Minor thirds are an obvious example that most blues players know well. Major sevenths are another that tend to come up less frequently for many of us but can really make a diff. And of course, many of us who use open tunings have noticed that we often have to adjust away from a perfectly tuned open chord, depending on what kind of fretting we're going to be doing in the song. With regard to the Feiten system... I'm agnostic. I've actually never played a guitar with it. I keep meaning to but it's been a long time since I've let myself step into a decent guitar store. Maybe I'll have to take the plastic out of my wallet and make the trek. I actually set out to do that once but none of the local good shops had one in stock at the time. Clearly a lot of people swear by it. They have this info page on "how it works" -- but the details (though patented) are not revealed: http://www.buzzfeiten.com/howitworks/howitworks.htm Beats me... I'll have to play one before I can get a sense of how it all works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members G Geezer Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 There are ways to improve intonation besides the Buzz Feiten system... see if you can find a local repairman who can make you an intonated nut for your guitar. That local repairman -- with the expertise to do a good job -- may be a lot easier to find in your home town of Austin, TX, than it is in, say, Bumfonk, Idaho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I've got perfect pitch, and I'm pretty sensitive to intonation issues... I absolutely hate having guitars out of tune, and it can be a real PITA when you're playing in D and have everything sounding sweet... until the song modulates down to C and it's like ARRRGH!!! The only guitar in my collection that doesn't make me eventually cringe under those circumstances is my 1995 Am Std Strat. It has a Buzz Feiten tuning system. As far as what I think of the BFTS, you do the math and figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members callous Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Yes to Buzz Feiten system. It's not perfect, but it really helps. I used to play an SG similar to yours, and always had trouble with intonation. On that guitar the problem really shows. Today I have a Buzz Feiten guitar, and I love it. Very sweet intonation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I've never owned an SG, and every time I play one, I'm like, "Why don't I have one of these?" I really like SG's too. Cool sounds, and a GREAT feeling thin neck! My main issue with them is that long neck. They're a bit neck-heavy (which I can deal with), but the bigger issue (at least for me) is that I tend to get a bit lost on that long neck. Okay, the neck isn't really long, it just seems that way since so much of it is clear of the body... and because of that, I tend to hit wrong chords more often on an SG than with most guitars. I think it's because I misjudge where I'm at on the neck as I'm peeking down at it out of the corner of my eye... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 I'm so used to playing one that other guitars seem like their necks are wildly different, and it takes me a while to get used to playing a Strat or my Ibanez archtop. There's guitars that probably have better necks, better this, better that, but I'm used to playing an SG and keep coming back to it. I feel really comfortable and love the tone. I'll play this other BF system guitar this afternoon, and if I like it, I'll go ahead and get the tuning system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fabian s Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Or you could have your SG refretted like this: http://www.truetemperament.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 Or you could have your SG refretted like this:http://www.truetemperament.com/ Whoa... dude! I want one of those... I can't even imagine what it would be like to play one but just looking at it would probably drive some folks to rehab. Wow. I'm... like... wow. ___________ Wacky as those things look -- he talks a good game. His write up comparing common tuning methods seems pretty accurate. His explanation of the pitfalls of harmonic 5/7 tuning should be posted in all guitar shops. And his attention to the implications of equal temperament seems spot on, to the extent of my reading on his site. Frankly... I'm intrigued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 On the flipside, if I wanted to be in tune all the time... ... I'd play a keyboard. I'm just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 16, 2007 Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 On the flipside, if I wanted to be in tune all the time... ... I'd play a keyboard. I'm just saying. Or -- more properly -- a little out of tune the whole time -- if you're talking about true harmonic intervals and uncompromised chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2007 I went to the store (The Amp Shop in Sherman Oaks), and played several guitars that have the Buzz Feiten tuning system. They all played gloriously. The notes rung out together very nicely. I then talked to the tech, who was really low-key and knowledgeable and had some suggestions and really took her time explaining a lot of things to me. She's apparently also very very good at refretting, as my frets are quite worn, so I'm considering getting that done at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 If it's still got the original frets, and you play it a lot, then it's probably overdue for a refret job Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 If it's still got the original frets, and you play it a lot, then it's probably overdue for a refret job Ken. It is. They're the original frets, and they're worn down quite a bit. I knew that already. You can see an enormous difference between the frets that are really high up on the neck and the rest of the frets. Most of the frets are really flat, and the SG I have had fairly low frets to begin with already. It's a 40 year old guitar, and it's been played a lot. what I didn't think about was how much the frets affect the tuning. I freely admit that this is super obvious, but I still didn't give it much thought until now. Sooooo...right now I'm strongly leaning towards getting the frets replaced as well. I'll just stew on it for a day or two since I have that option. And yes, I thought about the "vintage" factor, but really, I *play* this guitar, and I want it playable, so that's not really so much of an issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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