AVOID Keith Holland Guitar Hospital in Los Gatos, CA

[hecticone]

This is exactly why every guitar player should learn how to set up their own guitars.If it gets to the point where you need a fret job,which on most guitars is a lot of miles. Then source out a competent luthier. But even a fret job can be done at home.The files are not all that expensive.

[aclarke]

.

 

 

 

Are you sure it was ibanezrules.com you wanted to post to prove your point?

[Guitarfetish]

Not for nothing-

 

But all of this drama and this is a QUICK FIX.

 

I have these little slim files to takes down a single high fret- recrown with Gurian fret files, a little micromesh and a good polish, restring and set the action.

 

With guitars like this with funky fretboard sometimes you have to go counter-intuitive- tighten the truss rod to lessen the relief, now the whole guitar buzzes- so you raise the saddles- now you have no buzz and even though your string height is higher at the 12th fret the guitar feels faster cause there's slightly less relief- Gotta have lots of fret meat to do this though. Action will be a touch higher on the high frets- better for sustain up there anyway. More relief means lower saddles which means- guess what- buzzing on the 3-5th frets.

 

I would also polish the saddles on the floyd- sounds like you've got a little sitar buzz going on- usually caused by a slight groove in the saddle.

 

So get somebody to fix it for $50 and everybody shut up!

[MichaelSaulnier]

Not for nothing- But all of this drama and this is a QUICK FIX. I have these little slim files to takes down a single high fret- recrown with Gurian fret files, a little micromesh and a good polish, restring and set the action. With guitars like this with funky fretboard sometimes you have to go counter-intuitive- tighten the truss rod to lessen the relief, now the whole guitar buzzes- so you raise the saddles- now you have no buzz and even though your string height is higher at the 12th fret the guitar feels faster cause there's slightly less relief- Gotta have lots of fret meat to do this though. Action will be a touch higher on the high frets- better for sustain up there anyway. More relief means lower saddles which means- guess what- buzzing on the 3-5th frets. I would also polish the saddles on the floyd- sounds like you've got a little sitar buzz going on- usually caused by a slight groove in the saddle. So get somebody to fix it for $50 and everybody shut up!

 

Hey...

 

this isn't a funny post...

 

 

It's HELPFUL!

 

 

Yay!

 

M

[Electric Blues]

I watched the video carefully and...

 

1. The guitar does sound like ass... or a Sitar.

 

2. I don't know much about that type of guitar. Is it a good quality instrument or just a POS?

 

3. I think the guy tries to portray himself as an expert (he may or may not be) but then he says he loosened the truss rod all the way to get rid of a buzz... then he complains about the relief but then says it's normal? Is that meant to work that way? Isn't string action meant to be measured on the 12th fret? If he indeed is an expert, why doesn't he fix the damn thing himself? " 2.1 mm... Wow, that a REALLY exact ruler

 

4. He has really BIG ears, a thin pencil neck and kind of looks like one of those guys that would wear a foil hat to sleep. I don't think I'd want him in my shop either. Anal Retentive comes to mind. "The horrible mess... Sounds like garbage... The horror... The Horror".

[littlemilo]

 

...the customer is always right...

 

 

Most often people need to treat the customer as if they were right, but many times the reality is they are not. And having been in sales for many years, I can assure you that some customers just aren't worth dealing with.

 

One time I was given an ultimatum to do what a customer wanted, or they would never do business with me again. I replied, "You never will do business with us again, and it's no longer your choice."

 

The guy was an ass, and the time and aggravation he caused our company was never worth the business generated.

[MichaelSaulnier]

The customer is always right.

 

Until he's not.

 

Take it to Nordstroms... they take ANYTHING back.

 

M

[Foulacy]

that he do the work in front of you. At that point he requested that you leave his shop and not return, thereby becoming the first customer that he has ever thrown out of his shop. Nice going. Keith has been in the business for 25 years but he claims that he has never had anyone act like you did. Whats up with that? With all of the crazy musicians in the workd, you've become his first throw-out! At this point I'd suggest that you take your whining someplace else and quit trying to ruin the guys hard earned reputation over a misunderstanding thats completely one sided. Youre completely out of bounds.

 

I did not the demand that the work be done in front of me. I demanded that HE himself do the work as I had deemed his apprentices incompetent.

 

Again, Keith does NOT work on the guitars in his shop. Like he said, "I have my hands on every guitar in this shop." DOUBT IT. He honestly, honestly, had to have me tell him who I was and what kind of guitar I had on the second trip back to the shop.

[Foulacy]

I watched the video carefully and... 1. The guitar does sound like ass... or a Sitar. 2. I don't know much about that type of guitar. Is it a good quality instrument or just a POS? 3. I think the guy tries to portray himself as an expert (he may or may not be) but then he says he loosened the truss rod all the way to get rid of a buzz... then he complains about the relief but then says it's normal? Is that meant to work that way? Isn't string action meant to be measured on the 12th fret? If he indeed is an expert, why doesn't he fix the damn thing himself? " 2.1 mm... Wow, that a REALLY exact ruler 4. He has really BIG ears, a thin pencil neck and kind of looks like one of those guys that would wear a foil hat to sleep. I don't think I'd want him in my shop either. Anal Retentive comes to mind. "The horrible mess... Sounds like garbage... The horror... The Horror".

 

1. The notes I played in the video all sound find, with the exception of the 2 notes on the high E string.

 

2. How do you not know about Ibanez Prestige guitars and have 4,000 posts on a guitar forum?

 

3. Truss rod relief effects the area of frets between 1-2ish to 12th-ish depending on the guitar. Why would I not loosen the truss rod to get rid of buzz on lower frets? Are you stupid?

 

4. You measure action to the 10th of a mm. Again, are you stupid? Also, I'll link you to a page that can not be disputed, http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/action.htm

I measured it at the 12th for all the "12th fret guys," and it's 2.5mm on the low E, which is anything but low.

 

I don't act fake ever, I'm always honest. Thanks for the insults by the way, that might be your only argument since I just destroyed you.

[outtahear]

In other news (and keeping with the theme of the thread....)

 

APPLEBEES HAS RATS!!!!!!!!

[stingxnj]

This has just become retarded, redundant spewing now and, honestly, does anyone really give a {censored} who's right or wrong any longer? You'll never really know anyway.

[metalmanic]

This should have been addressed with the person who sold him the guitar. To the OP: It sounds like some jerk sold you a guitar with a bum neck. Yes, it sounds like the guitar shop didn't do you right, but still...

[stingxnj]

 

This should have been addressed with the person who sold him the guitar. To the OP: It sounds like some jerk sold you a guitar with a bum neck. Yes, it sounds like the guitar shop didn't do you right, but still...

 

 

I agree completely. The luthier should never have been solicited for the work in the first place. You have lemon laws in all states, even in the land of fruits and nuts. Lemon laws apply to used items as well. Plus most places have to give you some kind of return/refund option. At the first sign of problems the OP's ass should have been right back where he purchased the guitar.

[allthumz]

I've been in Foulacy's position before but instead of flying off the handle I asked questions, listened then watched as the technician played the ever lovin' dickens out of my guitar with no buzzing. I on the other hand couldn't look at it without making it buzz. If I hadn't asked questions and watched I would have said that the tech completely butchered my guitar. Guitar set ups are not a black and white issue but it seems that that is what Foulacy wants. He wants it his way realistic or not. Set ups done for someone require that all parties keep cool and work it out.

 

Keith comes across as a reasonable guy. He employees several or more people so it seems he has a decent business. I have the impression that he is not a hack.

 

Foulacy is out to do damage that is out of proportion to anything that may have been done. To come out of the gate, so to speak, savaging the guy seems excessive. I don't trust his version.

 

I've worked for people and managed people business for 40 years. Usually nobody is entirely right or wrong in a situation but how you present your argument goes a long way reaching a solution that is agreeable to all parties. To savage someone and his work, online no less, isn't a way to get what you want.

 

For what its worth some levity. [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[aclarke]

 

4. You measure action to the 10th of a mm. Again, are you stupid? Also, I'll link you to a page that can not be disputed, http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/action.htm I measured it at the 12th for all the "12th fret guys," and it's 2.5mm on the low E, which is anything but low. I don't act fake ever, I'm always honest. Thanks for the insults by the way, that might be your only argument since I just destroyed you.

 

 

As I posted above, Ibanezrules clearly says that if you've got 1.5mm at the 24th, you're going to get buzz with a hamfisted pick attack. On a clean channel, it's going to come through. It's physics.

 

By the way, action tends to be measured with a feeler gauge. 0.1 of a mm is pretty much impossible to detect eyeballed on a ruler.

 

And who the {censored} cares about the low E measurement? The problem is on the high e. What's the 12th fret there? Eyeballed, of course.

 

You've already said it's 1.5mm at the 24th - which Ibanezrules tells you will produce fret buzz. Could it be you're reluctant to post the measurement because it's obviously way too low, and you don't want to look like an idiot?

[JasonA]

The tech may or may not have done the job right, but either way I'd say the one thing that's clear to me from his purported actions and the tone of his posts is that I wouldn't want him for a customer either...

[matterday]

When you resort to personal insults like poking fun at his ears you lose respect. Just saying.

[Electric Blues]

 

When you resort to personal insults like poking fun at his ears you lose respect. Just saying.

 

 

You're right.

[Foulacy]

 

As I posted above, Ibanezrules clearly says that if you've got 1.5mm at the 24th, you're going to get buzz with a hamfisted pick attack. On a clean channel, it's going to come through. It's physics. By the way, action tends to be measured with a feeler gauge. 0.1 of a mm is pretty much impossible to detect eyeballed on a ruler. And who the {censored} cares about the low E measurement? The problem is on the high e. What's the 12th fret there? Eyeballed, of course. You've already said it's 1.5mm at the 24th - which Ibanezrules tells you will produce fret buzz. Could it be you're reluctant to post the measurement because it's obviously way too low, and you don't want to look like an idiot?

 

 

1.9 on the high E at the 12th. which is high. trust me, it's NOT an action problem. I have already stated that TWO other luthiers have observed the problem and stated the work necessary to be done. I have raised the action INSANELY high, with no complete fix of the problem AND added a ton of bow in the neck with no fix! Right now the guitar is setup fairly normally.

 

It's not an issue about who was right or wrong because I know I'm right. I didn't ask everyone on this forum for their opinion on what "could" be wrong with my guitar, I only posted the video so you could hear the buzz. I know what is wrong and I know how to fix it. Did you, at ALL,think, for one second, two notes on a guitar and no notes right next to them on different strings or the same one, could possibly sound {censored}ty because the action is low? Did you actually think that? I mean, to me that screams fret problem. Specific notes buzzing, other's not? FRET PROBLEM. Not a "lemon" not a "dud." None of the luthiers noticed anything out of the ordinary with the neck. And I wouldn't go as far to say I have a hamfisted pick attack. Matter of fact I have a really soft and beautiful pick attack. But whatever you are just looking for excuses to defend my opposing side for no reason.

 

-The frets aren't level.

-I was verbally assaulted by Keith Holland before I attacked him.

-I hope and PRAY that someone reading these forums listens to me, and avoids this shop.

 

I find it unnecessary to get insulted by random people but I guess that's the internet. If stupid people want to act like that fine.

[Electric Blues]

I hope and PRAY that someone reading these forums listens to me, and avoids this shop.

 

[MichaelSaulnier]

I'm thinking about optioning this story for a "reality-series"...

 

It's got tons of antagonist/protagonist conflict.

 

And YOU are MADE for reality TV.

 

There's nothing the public likes more than DRAMA!

 

If you keep coming up with lines like:

 

It's not an issue about who was right or wrong because I know I'm right.

 

We're guaranteed to get picked up!

 

Love you man!

 

What 'd ya say! Let's do it!

 

M

[Foulacy]

I'm thinking about optioning this story for a "reality-series"... It's got tons of antagonist/protagonist conflict. And YOU are MADE for reality TV. There's nothing the public likes more than DRAMA! If you keep coming up with lines like: We're guaranteed to get picked up! Love you man! What 'd ya say! Let's do it! M

 

But honestly, I have no idea why I'm arguing with everyone about the cause of the problem. The cause was assessed by 2 other luthiers AND was acknowledged by Keith himself but he was too much of a jerk to do the work and do it right. There is a lot of he said she said going on, but everything I've said about MY SIDE, has matched up with the things Keith posted but nothing in Keith's story matches up with mine... I wonder why...

 

-2 "unnamed" WELL respected luthiers identified the problem with my guitar

-Keith himself identified the problem

-The problem is uneven frets

-I was horribly treated and no one here can argue that, even Keith has not argued against that!

 

I have been completely open and honest to all people's questions and have answered every single one. Keith came on here posted some sugar coated plum fluff and left, and people take HIS side?

 

There are really no sides to be taken, all I wanted was my new guitar to play nice and instead I got scammed out of almost $200. I can't do anything but eat the money and post on a forum so enjoy the drama folks.

[prodrigu]

I think all this mess could be solved if any (or both) parts involved had used better personal skills. The costumer seems to be right, but also rude which is unacceptable.

[nuke_diver]

The shop has been in business for 25 years...they didn't get that way by being assholes to all of their customers...last time I checked that was a bad business policy.

 

Constantly posting to prove you are right here won't get the job done. Posting here to show other (that mostly will never even be in Los Gatos) not to go there doesn't get your money back

 

You had a bad experience. Report it the BBB and or one of the consumer advocates in the area and see if you can get your money back. If you verbally abused him and his employees he has every right to kick you out of the place he owns. I suspect prodrigu is probably dead on

[Old Fart Rocker]

After reading this thread, I have to throw my 2 cents in. Obviously none of us were there to confirm or deny this guys claim of being treated direspectfully by Keith. However, I have had Keith work on my guitars many, many times and he ALWAYS has been friendly, professional, and thorough with the work he has done. Keith was working on my guitars back in the day when he and his business partner Ron bought Torres Guitars in Saratoga. They have done several set ups, fret levels, fixed a broken headstock on an Explorer, built me a guitar, sold me 2 beautiful Rickies, and have given me lots of professional advice. Keith is a stand-up guy who takes pride in his work and does it without a lot of ego. Part of the problem is that people tell the tech what they want done instead of getting their professional opinion. It's like going to the doctor and telling him that you want brain surgery without telling him what the problem is. It looks to me like that's what this guy did. Walked in and told Keith what he wanted done instead of telling Keith what he would like the guitar to play like and letting Keith, the professional, tell him what should be done to fix it, imho.