Alan Parsons Project / Pink Floyd / Abbey Road.......

[blue2blue]

Thanks for this blue... Will I dampen the love-fest by admitting that I cannot abide Floyd in any of their manifestations? I even saw them in concert way-y back during their flying pink pigs tour... tagged along with some friends. I just never felt the love. I toss them into a cloth drawstring bag, along with Joni Mitchell and Laurie Anderson, then take a Sharpie and label the bag PEOPLE WHO HAVE CRAWLED UP THEIR OWN BUMS WITH SELF-INDULGENT PRETENTIOUS MISH-MOSH, FOISTED IT UPON THE PUBLIC AND CALLED IT ART.

 

OK... anyone who doesn't think "O Superman" is one of the greatest pop songs of all time is in serious need of an azzwhoopin.

 

 

 

See... now, if my introduction to PF had been in that era, I doubt they'd mean anything to me, either.

 

But I have to say that Mitchell has done so much stuff that is great in so many ways (subjectively speaking, of course), it's surprising to find someone who can't find something to like in her body of work.

 

About the only people I can't find something to like about are Kenny G, Michael Bolton and Dennis DeYoung. But I'm sure their moms love(d) them.

[blue2blue]

 

My feeling is that a huge amount of Floyd's best stuff was done without any involvement of Alan Parsons... including Wish You Were Here , Animals , and The Wall . Floyd had already established their avant-garde vibe long before DSOTM, and even afterwards both Gilmour and Waters had some great solo stuff. So, it's not like Parson did a bad job on DSOTM, but he only represented one small aspect of the Floyd sound, and only for a short time frame. I can't say that you should assign too much importance to his role there.

 

 

Oh, yeah... DSotM and Meddle (released two years prior with the soundtrack to the movie La Vall

[Jeff da Weasel]

It sounds fairly challenging now, perhaps, simply because so much puerile pablum has flowed through the channels of pop culture since then -- but listen to it in the context of their prior work or the other adventurous and/or experimental pop bands out there and it starts looking a lot more like the pop crossover it was viewed to be at the time.

 

 

Sure. Give Ummagumma a spin, and then put on "Us and Them", and DSOTM becomes an obviously purposeful attempt at doing some popular music. The nice thing about DSOTM is that it presented at friendly way of pulling in people who otherwise wouldn't have discovered the other sides of Floyd.

[rasputin1963]

OK... anyone who doesn't think "O Superman" is one of the greatest pop songs of all time is in serious need of an azzwhoopin.

 

 

Hmmm... let's see... Listen to "O Superman" or have bamboo inserted under my fingernails?

 

I'll take bamboo for fifty, Monte.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Well, hanging on these forums for as long as I've been a part of the community; I have witnessed several threads where engineers have contributed their talents to the overall sound of an artist's works and failed to be recognized for their musical contributions.

 

IMO, that's just part of the job. You do what you're supposed to do - which is, IMO, making the artist sound as good as possible within the context of their musical vision. Do I normally make "musical contributions" to the projects I work on? I like to think so... but OTOH, as a producer / engineer, I try to remember that it's the band's / artist's picture on the CD cover - I'm just a name in small type in the credits somewhere. That doesn't mean I don't do my utmost in service of the artist and the music, but it does mean that it's more about THEM than about "me".

 

I've been involved in threads where producers have all but rewritten the tunes, and yet, not received any writer credits; only production credits. Of course, I did see that Parsons had scored a couple of Grammy's on his works with PF...

 

And I've been involved on albums where the producer spent more time on his / her cell phone doing "other business" or lining up their next gig than actually working with the artists. I've also seen producers wanting to take a cut of the writing credit for making a single suggestion for a one or two word lyric change.

 

It cuts both ways Ani, and it's impossible to make accurate, broad range generalizations.

 

AP is by all accounts a very talented guy, but making an album is a collaborative effort. No matter HOW good the producer / engineer is, if you don't have good songs, and good musicians, you're in trouble. DSOTM was the result of some very talented people working together to make something great. The "credit" rightfully goes to ALL of them IMHO.

[wwwjd]

And what of Abbey Road?

One of the Beatles most famous and top selling albums - Alan was Assistant Engineer on it. Random luck that two talented groups got an "OK" engineer, or both albums were the better for getting the same guy? Just some thoughts

[Jeff da Weasel]

Alan is a great guy and an extremely talented engineer, but he'd be the first one to tell you that his job is to stay out of the way and let the artist do what he/she does.

 

And Abbey Road, IMHO, isn't one of the Beatles' better albums anyway. Just my take.

[franknputer]

Not to mention that an Assistant Engineer would have to be able to piss pure gold to have a dramatic effect on the final product.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Not to mention that an Assistant Engineer would have to be able to piss pure gold to have a dramatic effect on the final product.

:lol: :lol:

As an assistant engineer in my youth, I am happy to say that if you count the "final product" as having clean ashtrays, timely lunch delivery, nicely wound cables, and mic stands set up before the session, then I did my part very well.

[Ani]

IMO, that's just part of the job. You do what you're supposed to do - which is, IMO, making the artist sound as good as possible within the context of their musical vision. Do I normally make "musical contributions" to the projects I work on? I like to think so... but OTOH, as a producer / engineer, I try to remember that it's the band's / artist's picture on the CD cover - I'm just a name in small type in the credits somewhere. That doesn't mean I don't do my utmost in service of the artist and the music, but it does mean that it's more about THEM than about "me".

 

Phil,

 

Thank you for an earnest answer. Anyone that has read my posts on the forums over the years knows that I have been an avid fan of Pink Floyd since I came to know their name as a kid; I never questioned their abilities as musicians throughout my entire youth and the majority of my adulthood. It was not even until just recently that I even discovered that there were a couple of great looking guys in the band; something that was a big deal to most growing up. I had never bothered to look at any of their pictures; the great music generated by the band and the famous artwork on the cover of DSotM never begged the question of anything more.

 

After seeing some of the band pictures on Google, it made me curious as to what else I had taken for granted about the group. Unlike the Beatles, Genesis, the Eagles, and other superstar bands; whenever Pink Floyd disbanded, they did not receive the hype about solo releases from individual members. Curiosity led me to dig up individual tracks and unfortunately the search engine on Playlist.com didn't have much to offer on the individual member solo acts; the basis of my initial post, along with the discovery that Alan Parsons had engineered the project. Fortunately, Dean Roddey, Botch, and Ed A. were able to refer me to a better resource for locating tracks (with names included) by the individual members of the band.

 

It was in an inquiry about Pink Floyd as a band that I happened to spot Alan Parsons name, one that I knew ONLY as an artist. It really made me curious about HIS history then. Not only was I amazed to find that he had engineered the DSotM project, but I learned that he had actually been around long enough to have worked with the Beatles back at Abbey Road... and had gone on to work with Paul McCartney as a solo act. I had never even heard of him whenever the Alan Parsons Project entered the scene as a group of artists. Those are things that I missed out on in my youth... I was lucky enough just to get to LISTEN to any rock music in my home other than Elvis.

 

After browsing around YouTube and digging up some of Roger Waters that Dean pointed out, and watching the clips of the Making of DSotM that Ed A. linked to, I lurked around YouTube and found a lot of great music by the members of Pink Floyd as solo acts. PF didn't let me down at all.... I just learned that AP carved another notch in my appreciation log.

 

Still though, Alan Parsons "DID" contribute to the mystical/magical/ mesmerizing effects of the DSotM with the sound effects that actually placed you right inside of the tunes you were listening to. It was cool to watch the clips on the Making of DSotM to see how some of those effects had been captured and brought into play. IMO, he was able to create a psychological imagery that actually made one feel like they were physically in the setting of the words and music with the sound effects added and ambient backing tracks that corroborated the lyrics so mystically written by Waters.

 

The longevity in chart success and the number of album/cd sales generated by Dark Side of the Moon speaks in volume as to the overall production of the entire album; both musicianship and engineering. It stands above any other project done by Pink Floyd or Alan Parsons either one.... it stands above any other release by any other team in the industry statistically.

 

DSOTM was the result of some very talented people working together to make something great. The "credit" rightfully goes to ALL of them IMHO.

 

AGREED!!!

[Jimbroni]

Ani,
Check out some of Dave Mason's solo work, while it doesn't have impact of Floyd. He has some very cool solo material. David Gilmour's latest release from what I've heard from it all sound pretty good as well.

[Dean Roddey]

I remember back in late high school, in a high self-medicated moment, hearing Echos for the first time, the live one I think it was from the Pompei album? Anyway, to say I was blown away is to put it lightly. I was completely lost in it. That, to me, is what that type of music is about, what's good about it. I could just imagine having seen that live at the time on acid, as probably so many people did. It would have been almost overwhelming.

Here's in interesting discussion of the crazy amount of processing that Gilmour uses. There's an Effects link in the upper left:

http://tonefromheaven.com/

[Ani]

 

Anyway, to say I was blown away is to put it lightly. I was completely lost in it. That, to me, is what that type of music is about, what's good about it.

 

 

When I think about it, probably one of the most profound and captivating songs Pink Floyd ever to catch my attention was post DSotM; Comfortably Numb. I see where Gilmour wrote the majority of the music on that song, where Waters contributed mainly the lyrics. Reading up a bit on PF and their experiences with Syd Barrett brings a new dimension to a lot of the lyrics in many of their songs. One interview with Waters that I read said that Syd's mother blamed Waters for Syd's demise. It's very apparent that Syd's mental collapse and, later, his death had a major impact on all of the members of Pink Floyd; especially Waters and Gilmour who were both good friends of his according to articles I've read.

 

Jimbroni,

 

Dave Mason has some awesome songs. His former bandmate, Steve Winwood, does too.

[lsits]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LMa-vfu4frY&feature=related

 

 

After watching all six clips, I have a newfound appreciation for the contributions of Richard Wright.

[Dean Roddey]

After watching all six clips, I have a newfound appreciation for the contributions of Richard Wright.

 

 

Me also.

[lowendnyc]

Cool you guys are finding the "making of" clips on Youtube. I believe they came from a series of DVDs slugged "Classic Albums:XXX." They bring together the principles involved making albums and have them explain what they were up to. I've seen the Floyd disc, along with ones on Hendrix's Electric Ladyland and U2's Joshua Tree. Very cool stuff for those who are into the making of albums. They're available on Netflix, and VH1 Classic plays them from time to time.

[Ani]

After watching all six clips, I have a newfound appreciation for the contributions of Richard Wright.

I have a newfound appreciation to the entire body of people involved in the writing of, playing of, and the production of DSOTM! The whole nine yards gets a big thumbs up.

[edgerunner]

Hey - Just stumbled on this thread and wanted to add my :thu: regarding PF. I one of those who came to know PF when I was in HS just a few years after the release of DSotM. I wasn't into the whole drug thing but I LOVED their music and checked out most of their work after DSotM. It wasn't until a couple years ago that I started digging backwards into the previous work. Wow - amazing stuff for the time.

Must say though that my personal all time favorite track is Echoes. I can get totally lost in that song. Live at Pompeii is one of my all time fav rock movies too.

So for me - old, middle, new PF - man I love it all. What I am wondering is this. Who do you think has carried the PF banner forward (if anyone) in terms of recent bands that are heavily influenced by PF. The one that I know of that I really like is Porcupine Tree. Any others to recommend?

Cheers!
Chuck