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What are some ways to improve the "value" of your band?

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  • Quote Originally Posted by guido61
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    My wife has a great eye for photography and can take a much better picture with an iPhone or an instamatic than I ever could with the most advanced camera. And cameras are a bit different I suppose because there's the learning-how-to-use the damned thing process first that isn't necessarily true with musical equipment.




    My buddy who buys and sells Leica glass and uses it on his Panasonic GF1 puts it this way: What is the best camera to use? The one you have on you.



    Some of my best shots are taken with my phone.



    BTW, regarding rehearsals, we just started using a piece of equipment at rehearsals that completely changed our world. The vocals are by far easier to tighten up and my longstanding concern about ear damage at rehearsals is now a non-issue. We use a Jam hub. I'll never go back, except when the purpose is to tweak the sound system for live use.
    Newmanism:
    First, a person says something. Then, another person restates what they purportedly said so as to make it seem as if their view is as offensive, hostile, or absurd.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...terson/550859/

    Comment








    • Quote Originally Posted by guido61
      View Post

      My wife has a great eye for photography and can take a much better picture with an iPhone or an instamatic than I ever could with the most advanced camera. And cameras are a bit different I suppose because there's the learning-how-to-use the damned thing process first that isn't necessarily true with musical equipment.




      My buddy who buys and sells Leica glass and uses it on his Panasonic GF1 puts it this way: What is the best camera to use? The one you have on you.



      Some of my best shots are taken with my phone.



      BTW, regarding rehearsals, we just started using a piece of equipment at rehearsals that completely changed our world. The vocals are by far easier to tighten up and my longstanding concern about ear damage at rehearsals is now a non-issue. We use a Jam hub. I'll never go back, except when the purpose is to tweak the sound system for live use.
      Newmanism:
      First, a person says something. Then, another person restates what they purportedly said so as to make it seem as if their view is as offensive, hostile, or absurd.
      https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...terson/550859/

      Comment


      • Geez,LOUISE!! I havent at this thread in a while and by now its an ENCYCLOPEDIA!!!

        I skimmed the threads here and ..um, what can I say without being mean....

        I guess I stand by my original post..the most important stuff isnt gear. Its musicianship...which costs nothing but self inspection and honest hard work. Go deeper...listen to your recordings, find out what ya wanna put forward, isolate whats gonna make that happen and go for it....if thats fixing the vocals: great...if thats changing the material: do that. Follow your own recipe and instincts, dont be afraid to seriously try other's opinions and get on with it. It seems yopu are having a good time, and others seem to like it...so thats starting from a really good place. -GtrGeorge

        Comment


        • Geez,LOUISE!! I havent at this thread in a while and by now its an ENCYCLOPEDIA!!!

          I skimmed the threads here and ..um, what can I say without being mean....

          I guess I stand by my original post..the most important stuff isnt gear. Its musicianship...which costs nothing but self inspection and honest hard work. Go deeper...listen to your recordings, find out what ya wanna put forward, isolate whats gonna make that happen and go for it....if thats fixing the vocals: great...if thats changing the material: do that. Follow your own recipe and instincts, dont be afraid to seriously try other's opinions and get on with it. It seems yopu are having a good time, and others seem to like it...so thats starting from a really good place. -GtrGeorge

          Comment








          • Quote Originally Posted by guido61
            View Post

            Well, that's just dumb.




            You are not the first to accuse me of saying dumb things.
            __________
            Ain't no sacrilege to call Elvis king
            Dad is great and all but he never could sing -
            Jesus

            Comment








            • Quote Originally Posted by RobRoy
              View Post

              BTW, regarding rehearsals, we just started using a piece of equipment at rehearsals that completely changed our world. The vocals are by far easier to tighten up and my longstanding concern about ear damage at rehearsals is now a non-issue. We use a Jam hub. I'll never go back, except when the purpose is to tweak the sound system for live use.




              bingo!!! Don't buy subs, buy a Jam Hub. If the only way to properly answer the OP's question is by throwing money at it, then buy a Jam Hub. Then work on everybody's time. And on everybody's singing. Work on each player playing a role that adds up to a good arrangement and band sound. Not as in PA "sound", but as in the sound that you make as a band. Your playing. You time as a singer. You ability to fill your role without detracting from the other.



              And your TIME!!!



              Everybody's talking about how important subs are (and they are) because modern music relys on that beat. Yep, true. And that beat requires good time. And most of what I've heard of the "party bands" around here lack it.* Combine good solid, agressive time with some subs and you'll kill. I AGREE! But buy some subs and puff up your floppy, loosly played low end, with your singer singing across the beat and... book another wedding gig! YeeHaw!



              * If I read one more time how either you got it or you don't, I'm going to gack.
              __________
              Ain't no sacrilege to call Elvis king
              Dad is great and all but he never could sing -
              Jesus

              Comment








              • Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight
                View Post

                Combine good solid, agressive time with some subs and you'll kill. I AGREE! But buy some subs and puff up your floppy, loosly played low end, with your singer singing across the beat and... book another wedding gig! YeeHaw!




                I'm struggling to understand why you appear to feel you get it - and the rest of us don't on this topic. The OP's question was an open ended "how can I improve the value of my band". There have been LOTS of suggestions made in the course of this thread.



                Some have recommended upgrading equipment (upgrading PA, adding lights, etc.).

                Some have recommended upgrading stage wear and working on stage presence.

                Some have recommended working on improving the quality of the musical performance itself.



                There hasn't been a demand that we collective "pick one" answer to the OP's question. The reality is that properly implemented - every one of these suggestions would increase the value of the OP's band.



                Why is it that your response to every suggestion that isn't solely focused on the OP's music performance is to ridicule the suggestion with a sarcasm laced post? I've yet to see a post in this thread that has suggested that the OP ignore the quality of his band's musical performance in favor of equipment purchases.



                It seems to me that most of the folks who have posted in this thread recognize that improving a band's musical performance improves the value of the band. Why is it that YOU are either unwilling or unable to recognize that some of these other suggestions can help increase the value of the band as well?



                Lee - there are millions of stellar musicians sitting at home playing to their wives, girl friends, dogs and cats - whining about how it's all about the music. Bull****************. It's the bands that find a way to deliver the whole package (musicianship, production and marketing) that are successful.
                The SpaceNorman

                www.facebook.com/SuperstarsOfRock
                www.souldoutrocks.com

                Keyboards and Tone Generators: Yamaha CP300, Kronos 88, Roland AX Synth, Motif ES Rack
                Keyboard Rack: Samson SM10 Line Mixer, Motu MIDIExpressXT MIDI Interface, Shure PSM200 IEM system, M-Audio Wireless MIDI, Live Wires IEM ear buds, iPad wOnSong.
                Stage Amplification: Stereo via 2 Yamaha DSR112s

                Comment


                • Yeah well... I myself am sarcasm laced. But my intent is pure. I don't believe I have the ONE VISION. But I do feel there is a lot of really bad advice here. Very misleading stuff.



                  But for you to say I don't "recognize that some of these other suggestions can help increase the value of the band as well" would be you missing my point. I keep saying that subs are important. I LOVE THE SOUND OF A FAT PA.



                  Norm, if you wish to choose sides, whatever. If you see my point as weightless, fine. I kinda think you don't though. Maybe it's my "style"? Whatever. My intent is pure. The OP's band in their video look really good. To me, they show a promise that a lot of the more established bands around here could envy. They show the beginnings of it. I suggest they stick with that for a while. But... I gather the allure of "the stage and spotlight" and a "paycheck" might be tempting.



                  So we'll get subs and and a banner and we'll beef up our lighting and...



                  Am I sarcastic about that ^^^. Yes. Because music around here seems to be largely reduced to the art of running a small business. What we end up with then is a pretty store front and sub par merch inside. And that's fine, but if that's what you really want, I suggest a change to the forum's name.



                  COVER BAND BUSINESS 101



                  Then I 'll be sure to stay away. Problem solved!
                  __________
                  Ain't no sacrilege to call Elvis king
                  Dad is great and all but he never could sing -
                  Jesus

                  Comment


                  • Lee,



                    Maybe my struggle in understanding where you're coming from stems from comments like I point out below:



                    In one breath, you make a statement like this (which I think is "sarcasm free"):









                    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight
                    View Post

                    I keep saying that subs are important. I LOVE THE SOUND OF A FAT PA.




                    In the next breath, you make a statement like this (which you state is intended to be very sarcastic):









                    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight
                    View Post

                    So we'll get subs and and a banner and we'll beef up our lighting and...




                    Lee - nobody has suggested that the OP go purchase subs, lights, a new stage wardrobe (or anything else for that matter) - AND ignore putting time and effort into improving his band's musicianship and musical performance.



                    As others have pointed out - these steps can be taken concurrently. If a band has the financial resources and the desire to upgrade, investing in subs, banners, lights, stage wardrobe - WILL increase the value of virutally any band.



                    Obviously subs, banners, lights and stage wardrobe will only take a ****************ty band so far ... but put two bands of equal musical quality side by side - and the one who's successfully implemented quality PA, banners, lights and stage wardrobe - will be far more successful in the market than the one that hasn't invested in their complete package.



                    I want to speak to your comments about "music around here seems to be largely reduced to the art of running a small business" - but I'll do that in a seperate response.
                    The SpaceNorman

                    www.facebook.com/SuperstarsOfRock
                    www.souldoutrocks.com

                    Keyboards and Tone Generators: Yamaha CP300, Kronos 88, Roland AX Synth, Motif ES Rack
                    Keyboard Rack: Samson SM10 Line Mixer, Motu MIDIExpressXT MIDI Interface, Shure PSM200 IEM system, M-Audio Wireless MIDI, Live Wires IEM ear buds, iPad wOnSong.
                    Stage Amplification: Stereo via 2 Yamaha DSR112s

                    Comment








                    • Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight
                      View Post

                      ...music around here seems to be largely reduced to the art of running a small business. What we end up with then is a pretty store front and sub par merch inside. And that's fine, but if that's what you really want, I suggest a change to the forum's name - COVER BAND BUSINESS 101...




                      I've read statements like this on numerous occasions here on BSWTB. The last thread that I recall focusing on this issue was a couple of months ago. It turned into a dozen or so pages worth of posts and ended up with Sventkg sulking off all butthurt.



                      Honestly, I don't see what the problem is. Sure, there are lots of discussions related to band business on the forum - and rightly so. One of my primary reasons for frequenting this forum is to see what others are doing with their bands. I want to read about how others are handling their "production" challenges. I want to read about how others are marketing their bands. These are topics that I can read about in a medium such as the forum. Sometimes what I read simply helps me to validate that the things I'm concerned about are concerns for everybody else - and that my thoughts on those issues are consistent with the group. Sometimes what I read provides me with an "aha!" moment - and I come away with a new perspective. This is all good.



                      While I'm not opposed to discussions that are purely focused on the music itself - I'll be blunt and state that it's not why I frequent this forum. It's not a medium that I feel lends itself to learning much that is purely musical from. Text discussions about playing in time, singing, crafting parts, etc. - simply don't provide me with much value.



                      I'm curious ... you apparently feel that as a forum, we're missing something. What do YOU think we need to be talking about in lieu of the conversations that we typically see on here today?
                      The SpaceNorman

                      www.facebook.com/SuperstarsOfRock
                      www.souldoutrocks.com

                      Keyboards and Tone Generators: Yamaha CP300, Kronos 88, Roland AX Synth, Motif ES Rack
                      Keyboard Rack: Samson SM10 Line Mixer, Motu MIDIExpressXT MIDI Interface, Shure PSM200 IEM system, M-Audio Wireless MIDI, Live Wires IEM ear buds, iPad wOnSong.
                      Stage Amplification: Stereo via 2 Yamaha DSR112s

                      Comment








                      • Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight
                        View Post

                        Yeah well... I myself am sarcasm laced. But my intent is pure. I don't believe I have the ONE VISION. But I do feel there is a lot of really bad advice here. Very misleading stuff.



                        But for you to say I don't "recognize that some of these other suggestions can help increase the value of the band as well" would be you missing my point. I keep saying that subs are important. I LOVE THE SOUND OF A FAT PA.



                        Norm, if you wish to choose sides, whatever. If you see my point as weightless, fine. I kinda think you don't though. Maybe it's my "style"? Whatever. My intent is pure. The OP's band in their video look really good. To me, they show a promise that a lot of the more established bands around here could envy. They show the beginnings of it. I suggest they stick with that for a while. But... I gather the allure of "the stage and spotlight" and a "paycheck" might be tempting.



                        So we'll get subs and and a banner and we'll beef up our lighting and...



                        Am I sarcastic about that ^^^. Yes. Because music around here seems to be largely reduced to the art of running a small business. What we end up with then is a pretty store front and sub par merch inside. And that's fine, but if that's what you really want, I suggest a change to the forum's name.



                        COVER BAND BUSINESS 101



                        Then I 'll be sure to stay away. Problem solved!




                        Great post.
                        gibson SG - treble boost - fuzz x2 - marshall JMP - 4x12/2x15

                        Comment








                        • Quote Originally Posted by SpaceNorman
                          View Post

                          I've read statements like this on numerous occasions here on BSWTB. The last thread that I recall focusing on this issue was a couple of months ago. It turned into a dozen or so pages worth of posts and ended up with Sventkg sulking off all butthurt.



                          Honestly, I don't see what the problem is. Sure, there are lots of discussions related to band business on the forum - and rightly so. One of my primary reasons for frequenting this forum is to see what others are doing with their bands. I want to read about how others are handling their "production" challenges. I want to read about how others are marketing their bands. These are topics that I can read about in a medium such as the forum. Sometimes what I read simply helps me to validate that the things I'm concerned about are concerns for everybody else - and that my thoughts on those issues are consistent with the group. Sometimes what I read provides me with an "aha!" moment - and I come away with a new perspective. This is all good.



                          While I'm not opposed to discussions that are purely focused on the music itself - I'll be blunt and state that it's not why I frequent this forum. It's not a medium that I feel lends itself to learning much that is purely musical from. Text discussions about playing in time, singing, crafting parts, etc. - simply don't provide me with much value.



                          I'm curious ... you apparently feel that as a forum, we're missing something. What do YOU think we need to be talking about in lieu of the conversations that we typically see on here today?




                          Maybe Lee believes that the music is the most important aspect of a band, and that getting caught up in the business side is part of an ongoing problem in the music industry today.



                          I applaud Lee for his refreshing point of view. Put out a good product in the first place (the music) and everything else comes after.
                          gibson SG - treble boost - fuzz x2 - marshall JMP - 4x12/2x15

                          Comment








                          • Quote Originally Posted by BEMUSofNthAmrca
                            View Post

                            Maybe Lee believes that the music is the most important aspect of a band, and that getting caught up in the business side is part of an ongoing problem in the music industry today.



                            I applaud Lee for his refreshing point of view. Put out a good product in the first place (the music) and everything else comes after.




                            Can you point to any recent posts where somebody has suggested "f*ck the music! It's all about the business side of the equation!". I'm of the opinion that virtually every musician out there will readily acknowledge and agree that music IS the most important aspect of a band. I certainly can't recall ever having seen a post from anybody suggesting otherwise. Staking out a position as a defender of the music is like taking a stand for Mom and apple pie .... who's arguing that the music isn't important?



                            I'm of the opinion that each and every one forumite who touches their instruments - is working on improving their musicianship to the extent that they can. Aside from telling them that the "music is the most import part" - what conversations are you suggesting we need to be having in order to further that development?
                            The SpaceNorman

                            www.facebook.com/SuperstarsOfRock
                            www.souldoutrocks.com

                            Keyboards and Tone Generators: Yamaha CP300, Kronos 88, Roland AX Synth, Motif ES Rack
                            Keyboard Rack: Samson SM10 Line Mixer, Motu MIDIExpressXT MIDI Interface, Shure PSM200 IEM system, M-Audio Wireless MIDI, Live Wires IEM ear buds, iPad wOnSong.
                            Stage Amplification: Stereo via 2 Yamaha DSR112s

                            Comment








                            • Quote Originally Posted by SpaceNorman
                              View Post

                              Can you point to any recent posts where somebody has suggested "f*ck the music! It's all about the business side of the equation!". I'm of the opinion that virtually every musician out there will readily acknowledge and agree that music IS the most important aspect of a band. I certainly can't recall ever having seen a post from anybody suggesting otherwise. Staking out a position as a defender of the music is like taking a stand for Mom and apple pie .... who's arguing that the music isn't important?



                              I'm of the opinion that each and every one forumite who touches their instruments - is working on improving their musicianship to the extent that they can. Aside from telling them that the "music is the most import part" - what conversations are you suggesting we need to be having in order to further that development?




                              I don't need a post stating that music isn't the most important thing to know it isn't to many here. All it takes is a swing by their website and a quick listen to the top 40 mock-ups to realize the bar is low.



                              So, sorry if it offends but, the idea of buying a Jam Hub is a pretty good freaking idea. Who cares what people say, Norm? Of course nobody here is saying music isn't important. That wouldn't be a very stylish stance. What I hear is, "Music comes first! That's a given!"



                              But, no it isn't. It isn't a given.
                              __________
                              Ain't no sacrilege to call Elvis king
                              Dad is great and all but he never could sing -
                              Jesus

                              Comment








                              • Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight
                                View Post

                                So, sorry if it offends but, the idea of buying a Jam Hub is a pretty good freaking idea.




                                But, again, isn't an either/or proposition. No one is offended by the suggestion of a Jam Hub. The only one being offensive here, really, is you. The problem with your stance---and whether you intend it this way or not, I don't know---but it comes across with the snobbish attitude that unless any band has first achieved X-level of musicianship, then they shouldn't even be IN the 'business' of playing live, let alone discussing the subtle details of the business end of things. And you seem most concerned about the just-starting-out guys understand this point.



                                But as pretty much anyone in this business knows, whether you're playing covers or originals or both, you learn about all ends of the business and improve on all of them pretty much simutaneously. Who here didn't start out gigging long before we probably had any musical 'right' to be doing so? You start out at the bottom and you move up the ladder--gig wise, gear wise and musicianship wise. And progress happens in fits and starts and leap-frogging. Some bands are 'better' than their gear and their gigs, some others are 'beneath' it. And maybe in a year or two that reverses for whatever reason.



                                The idea that there is some sort of protocol or order to this stuff is silly. Every musician and band follows a different path. All we can do in a forum like this is offer suggestions and share war-stories about what did or did not work for any of us. If people can make use of the advice--great. If they can't, that's fine too. Find another post or forum or board that is more applicable.



                                But as has been said many times, this particular forum IS the "gigging band business" forum. The only one on this particular board and one of the few anywhere, that I'm aware of. Sure, talk about gigging will always involve talking about playing and musicianship, to some degree, but for anybody to be somehow offended that so much of this discussion here is about the business end of things is patently absurd. It'd be like me going over the songwriting forum and bitching thing everybody talks way too much about lyrics because unless you've got your melody and chords-changes happening first, the lyrics don't mean ****************.



                                So yeah, this is the place to discuss subs and monitors and contracts and clothing and lights and projectors and letting girls up on stage and which latest pop song fills the dance floor and plastic ****************ing blow up guitars. And yes, the music DOES come first. Whether the music is to your personal liking or not. And whether it's taken for granted here sometimes or not as part of the conversation.

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