Members Anderton Posted September 23, 2015 Members Share Posted September 23, 2015 Seems most cultures have references to dragon-like creatures. So, did dragons actually exist, is there something in the collective subconscious, is the dragon some sort of archetype, or...? I have a prosaic explanation...civilizations build stuff. I bet every now and then when digging, they ran into dinosaur skeletons. This provided the basis for a belief in dragons. Dragons are represented as looking very much like dinosaurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 23, 2015 Members Share Posted September 23, 2015 This has definitely been my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I've had similar thoughts on the matter... it's probably an attempt to explain dinosaur remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philboking Posted September 24, 2015 Members Share Posted September 24, 2015 That's definitely a possibility. What I find interesting is the differences in the way different cultures represent them in art. A medieval European dragon looks way different than a Chinese dragon. Same for lions - - Persian, Chinese and European lions all are very different looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted September 24, 2015 Members Share Posted September 24, 2015 The concept of the 'dragon,' as I understand it, emerged in Europe in the middle ages -- at a time when relatively backward and ignorant Europeans were first being exposed through trade to far more sophisticated cultures with 'fanciful' superstitions and 'colorful' religious mythologies, as well as esoteric traditions. As with the Hermetics, all sorts of esoteric ideas and symbols often became vulgarized. So when initiates of esoteric systems spoke to each other of the inner 'serpent power' (a notion borrowed from the east), as tantalizing bits and pieces of the teachings leaked out, common people -- barely aware of their own inner lives the anthropologists and cultural historians suggest [how much has really changed?] -- translated these esoteric symbols into superstitions and myths about real, physical creatures, not deep psychological realms and parts of the brain -- much as the Hermetics' talk of the 'inner gold' of the soul became vulgarized by the notion that Hermetic alchemists could change different metals into gold. (It gets complicated, however, because the Hermetics really did get involved with experimenting and trying to learn about chemistry -- but to them, this was a natural spiritual pursuit -- because they felt the macrocosm is reflected in the microcosm -- a notion that is still fundamental in science in many important respects. PS... A 20 foot, 2-1/2 ton crocodile is as close to a dragon as I would ever hope to get, even if it can't breath fire. PPS... early man really did coexist with wooly mammoths and sabre-tooth tigers -- but I don't think they appear at all in ancient mythologies. (I could be wrong, but I don't think so.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted September 24, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Well, there are real Komodo dragons, but they're just lizards that grew up and they don't breathe fire. They can be kind of cute, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dendy Jarrett Posted September 24, 2015 Members Share Posted September 24, 2015 I can only .... Wait for it ... Imagine Dragons Sorry - couldn't resist. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Well, there are real Komodo dragons, but they're just lizards that grew up and they don't breathe fire. They can be kind of cute, though. Those things are nearly as nasty as the medieval dragons. They don't fly, and they don't breathe fire, but their mouths are a toxic cesspool and their bite is highly infectious / poisonous. Fortunately, they only weigh about two hundred pounds or so max, so they're relatively small "lizards" compared to mythical dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted September 24, 2015 Members Share Posted September 24, 2015 C'mon guys, really. This kind of thinking is just not up to snuff. Just imagining "hey a guy finds a dinosaur skeleton and that's probably where the idea of dragons came from!". Science, folks, not idle speculation and little ideas that seem to hang together with no way to refute or confirm them... It's just not a valuable way to approach any subject - I see people do it all the time, it has a long history especially in creating myths and unexamined notions that over time take root. Remember nat whilk's two-step method for getting people to believe anything: 1 - encounter an idea that seems to hang together on the face of it.2 - if the idea also coincides with someone's pre-existing notions and beliefs, then presto they believe it. Rigor!! Many of you are smarter than me, and even I know this way of dreaming up "explanations" is bogus. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted September 24, 2015 Members Share Posted September 24, 2015 Human culture developed fearing predation from large reptiles, large cats/canines, birds of prey, and snakes. A dragon has talons, wings, a mammalian predator's set of jaws, cat's eyes, a heavy, scaly body, and a snake-like tail. Pretty much hits all the bases. Oh, and fire. It's as good a guess as any I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted September 24, 2015 Author Members Share Posted September 24, 2015 C'mon guys, really. This kind of thinking is just not up to snuff. Just imagining "hey a guy finds a dinosaur skeleton and that's probably where the idea of dragons came from!". It's speculation, nothing wrong with that - we can't travel back in time to confirm or deny. What's your theory as to the origin of the dragon archetype? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted September 24, 2015 Members Share Posted September 24, 2015 It's speculation, nothing wrong with that - we can't travel back in time to confirm or deny. What's your theory as to the origin of the dragon archetype? Well, of course you're right - nothing wrong with speculation - but so many people seem to make little distinction between their speculations and their beliefs, and give credence to the most shallowly considered opinions. So I'm guess I'm on a rigor-rant, and I shy away from at least voicing speculative "seems likely" sort of thinking. Just the other day, one of my most intelligent, well-read friends commented at a get-together when the topic veered towards global warming, "I think it's all from sunspots. I read an article in blah-de-blah." Now I know he's got this serious predilection of scepticism towards global warming, which is somehow related by some tortured logic to his overall belief system. One speculative magazine article and he's done with the subject - sheesh....and this from an otherwise wise and learned individual. Is it a good mental habit to make sense of the world through small, idle, ignorant speculations? No harm if you know that's what you're doing, as a party game, sure - but I suspect a lot of people actually feel they are creatively making sense of the world that way. Just a pet topic of mine....please forgive my over-seriousness. The origin of the dragon archetype? Sunspots, of course. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted September 25, 2015 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2015 I do not want to sidetrack this into a discussion of climate change, but there is one thing about which I am absolutely sure: There is no "control group" earth against we can test anyone's theories. It's sad when a matter which should be exclusively the domain of science, involving creation of hypotheses and methodology, becomes a political football rather than a search for the truth. The dragon thing just interested me because my Dad was into dragons. When my mother died, I inherited her stuffed dragon that reminded her of my father, and now that dragon reminds me of both of them. But it also reminds me of dinosaurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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