Portable recording thingies - do you care?

[Anderton]

Wow, there sure seems to be a lot of these: M-Audio and Edirol have little flash-based recorders, there's Sony's Hi-MD, Sony showed a flash-based pro level recorder at AES as did TASCAM (the HD-P2), Nagra has gotten into the act, and there's HHB's FlashMic, which basically lets you record whatever you're miking with the push of a button.

 

Okay, so it's possible...but would you USE something like this? If so, what for? Are there really that many people doing field recording and collecting samples?

[PetersReviews]

I love my portable recorders. I've recorded my rehearsals & shows with a MiniDisc recorder and my Archos AV420. I also have a portable Korg PXR4 4-track digital recorder. I'm always on the go so I like things that are battery operated.

 

Peter

 

 

Originally posted by Anderton Wow, there sure seems to be a lot of these: M-Audio and Edirol have little flash-based recorders, there's Sony's Hi-MD, Sony showed a flash-based pro level recorder at AES as did TASCAM (the HD-P2), Nagra has gotten into the act, and there's HHB's FlashMic which basically lets you record whatever you're miking with the push of a button. Okay, so it's possible...but would you USE something like this? If so, what for? Are there really that many people doing field recording and collecting samples?

 

[GY]

Yes, I care. I just don't care about reading any more lame-ass reviews about them.

[DigitMus]

Yes I care. I record the local symphony, and occasionally aoustic/folk/chamber groups on location. I usually just to straight to stereo (with a Royer SF12, or a pair of DPAs or M150s), but I'd llike to do 4 or more channels without having to transport a (large) multi channel recorder, mic pres, A/D converters, all the associated cabling etc. A 4 channel portable with AES in (& meters) would make my day.

 

 

Scott

[Anderton]

>

 

Okay, I'll take the bait. Why do you care? What do you use them for? I don't want a lame-ass review, just how you use it/them...

[Anderton]

Oh, and a tip, too: When you're grabbing weirdo samples from TV, don't forget to notch out the 15kHz oscillator sound when you edit the samples.

[valkyriesound]

Of course, I care.. since I've been doing location recording for years...

 

There's been nothing out there to make a really simple live concert recording for bands... as people find out about these new tools I think they'll be more and more interested....

 

Craig:

 

1. High end Digital has been taking over in most segments of the audio/multimedia industry... all except: RADIO!

Even a large organization like NPR is still using consumer Minidisc recorders for reporters.

 

2. PORTABLE options have been very few and very unafordable for years. We JUST got rid of the portable DATS last month! WOOOO HOOO!

 

3. Every station reporter is going to be looking to upgrade their equipment (hence the recorder with a mic combo from HHB).

 

4. Podcasting is gaining in popularity... and people don't want all of the fancy music-oriented features of stand alone DAW workstations.

 

5. There just hasn't been ANY real movement in years in the products avaiable for portable recording... and anything larger than a purse is NOT what I'm talking about.

 

I did mention we finally got rid of those portable DATs ONLY last month......

 

Besides broadcasters I think these will be new tools for musicians who need to do quick portable recordings.... some may be confused or wonder why they need one... until they realize the new freedom they have in their recording process. I think these will catch on as people get hooked on this new sense of freedom and ease of recording.

 

No one thought they needed their own personal computer years ago....

 

Valky

[Anderton]

Hey Valky, just wondering...did you ever get rid of those portable DATs?!?

 

Couldn't agree more. I always tried to copy any DAT to computer/CD as soon as humanly possible.

 

When DAT was introduced, one of the engineers proudly pointed out the track widths were 1/10th the thickness of a human hair. All I could think was "uh-oh...".

[Dylan Walters]

This thread is motivating me to get the rest of my DAT's archived onto my PC.... Anywho, yes, I am excited to see the flash-based recorders improving and getting more affordable. I am hoping to buy one in the next month or two. The main reason that I want one is to record my band rehearsal and to have handy just in case I get an idea for a song. I'd also love to start recording some sounds for sampling again like I used to do with my old Sony portable DAT. The new Tascam model looks like the shizznizzle, but I'm sure that it's going to be way outta my budget.

[Chris Groegler]

I'm interested in hearing about them as well. We picked up the Edirol R4 a few months back and it has been a great machine to capture sound effects. I might pick up a smaller unit for my personal collection.

 

Why do I use them?? Their portability and quality. They are perfect for us as our games are set in real world locations and we can go out and record anywhere we want to get the right environment sound. We do a lot of capturing of basic foley sounds as well and it has been great not carrying a laptop with some interface. Just plug a mic and go! Gotta love that.

 

Chris

[The Pro]

I thought I was interested in the portable recorders, but there are few applications really other than recording bands live. Once the market gets saturated with them they'll be cheap anyway.

 

A couple of years ago my wife and I got real excited over using my laptop, a Tascam US-122 interface and a pair of AT studio mics to go out and do field recordings. I was getting requests to put out some new-age "environmental" albums ("Piano By The Sea", etc.). We even planned a vacation around it, traveling from the ocean to the mountains gathering samples of ocean waves, mountain streams, birds in fields, thunderstorms, etc. It was fun and we got an entire library of nature sounds in a week... then the party was over. All done. No further need for field recording.

[GY]

 

Originally posted by Anderton > Okay, I'll take the bait. Why do you care? What do you use them for? I don't want a lame-ass review, just how you use it/them...

 

 

Wow... I caught a big one! I use an Edirol R-1 that replaced a Sony D-7 and D-8 DAT for film/video sound effects.

 

http://www.gymusic.com/misc/RestaurantInterior244.mp3

[UstadKhanAli]

I just bought an Edirol R-1. It's a tiny little thing that records reasonably well.

 

I use them for:

1. field recordings while traveling

2. recording the odd show here and there

3. recording band rehearsals (just connect it to the computer, sweep the files into iTunes, and burn a CD instantly!!)

4. And finally, perhaps one of the more unusual uses...this past weekend, in addition to my Lawson L251, I hooked up the R-1 as an additional "mid-fi" room mic. It's "bangy" sounding, forward, and aggressive. It could be a cool effect to use in a chorus here, an intro there, or who knows? It was fun, and the drummer and guitarist were particularly fascinated by the sound.

[Dylan Walters]

Cool info, Ken. How does the little Edirol sound? I'm thinking of picking up this particular model unless I am steared away from it for some reason.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Originally posted by Dylan Walters Cool info, Ken. How does the little Edirol sound? I'm thinking of picking up this particular model unless I am steared away from it for some reason.

 

 

I've only used the internal mics. They're a bit noisy by professional standards. Well, okay, they're really noisy......

 

They are surprisingly full. One of the advantages of the R-1 is that it seems to capture a very wide stereo field. It's also quite full, with a surprising amount of bottom end that I wouldn't expect in a little box such as this. But I'd characterize it as "mid-fi", lacking the detail, air, and certain something that a better microphone/preamp combo would have.

 

It's easy to use. Very easy to use.

 

It's a bit flimsy. The Function Wheel feels like it's gonna fall off.

 

The metering is not the most useful. It's mono metering (for stereo omni mics), and is slow to react. It also seems to be doing more of an average metering rather than peak, although some people disagree with my assessment there.

 

It records rock bands and concerts reasonably well. It sucks for dictation. It's good in a "bangy", aggressive, compressed sort of way as a secondary room mic when doing drums, the loudness of the drums covering up the fact that the thing hisses obtrusively.

 

In short, don't expect to get masterful field recordings with this. Good-sounding? Sure. But really nice? Look somewhere else. It's pretty much what it looks like - a fun, cheap, tiny, easy-to-use field recording unit.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Yes, I'm interested. While I don't do much in the way of remote recordings these days, I have done my share of them over the years - a few live band things (off the FOH board or dedicated multitrack / board rig), a lot of college recitals, etc. And of course, the thought of a high quality recorder that is small enough to take with me anywhere has appeal to me for a lot of reasons.

 

I've wanted to do a recording of the "night sounds" outside my studio for some time now... but I've never gotten around to doing it. With a small, self contained portable device, it would be very easy to do.

 

I've thought about getting an iPod for listening to music on the go, but hey, why not get something that I can RECORD on too? I don't "need" something that can hold 5,000 songs on it, but if I can take a dozen albums worth of stuff with me, AND record directly to the device, I'd be willing to pay DOUBLE what an iPod would cost me.

 

Can you say "pre-production"? When I start working with a new band as a producer, I usually want to get a rough recording of all their songs so I can review what I have to work with... and I also like to go to a show and / or go to a reherasl to hear them in action. Why not have the ability to record that show or rehersal and kill two birds with one stone without having to drag a ton of gear along with me?

 

How about as a dedicated "mixdown deck"? If the device has a S/PDIF input and a USB output, and can record at 24/96, to me it would potentially make a good replacement to the secondary soundcard on the DAW computer... meaning I wouldn't have to simultaneously run both PT AND Sound Forge at the same time... which means more CPU power would be available to just PT.

 

If it has a built in mic (or can accept a small, portable outboard mic), it could be a good tool to keep with me for those unexpected song ideas that seem to often hit me when I'm away from the studio...

 

I can think of a lot of potential uses for the "right" portable recording device, assuming it has the right combination of features, size and price.

 

Gus, if you see this, I am stilll interested in getting a MicroTrack on loan to do a review.

[jazmaan]

I doubt if M-Audio will be loaning out any Microtracks for review until they squash some more of its bugs.

 

They released a firmware beta a few days ago that was a step in the right direction. But they still have a ways to go before the unit is ready for primetime.

 

Looped playback is a mess. If it works at all (which it often doesn't) it throws in stray bits of sound from outside the loop.

 

Mono recording has not been implemented yet.

 

And unlike Minidisc, there's no way to mark index points within an already recorded file to divide up that file onboard. So if you recorded 4 uninterrupted hours of sound but only need 1 minute of what you recorded, you'll have to upload the whole 4 hours onto your computer and use editing software to isolate that 1 minute you need. Minidisc recorders easily let you split out that 1 minute into a separate file onboard using the "T-Mark" button.

 

M-Audio has downgraded its battery life estimates from 8 hours to "4 to 5 hours. Or 3 hours with phantom power."

[Kiwiburger]

I think flashcard portable recorders are revolutionary, and I want, I want, I want one.

 

Portable recorders are nothing new - BUT - the moving parts meant they were fairly useless for quick high quality use. You needed seperate preamps and long cables to escape the motor noises.

 

The ability to plug a quality mic into a hand held SILENT device is going to change how I work.

 

I just wish you could sync them, or have multi-channel ones. I'm sure that will happen. Why? Because then people could use them in the studio for drum kits or bands. Being silent, they could be used in the same room (instead of having to run long cables to a PC or recorder in a seperate room). That's if you care about noise.

 

Also, a lot of people (including myself) have big AC power quality problems. Running stuff off batteries is looking like a good solution, not just for portability. This was a factor in my decision to buy a Portico preamp.

[Brittanylips]

 

Originally posted by Anderton but would you USE something like this? If so, what for? Are there really that many people doing field recording and collecting samples?

 

Absolutely.

 

I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but I'm looking to replace my DATs.

 

Also, I'm looking to replace my DATs.

 

I do a variety of field recordings, from recording my own music being performed, to recording myself or other musicians in non-studio spaces for acoustic or other reasons, to recording wacky little things that just pop up from time to time.

 

In the world of portable DATs, I've had good ones and don't-care-if-I-break-it ones for different circumstances. I'm very much looking forward to replacing them with one or two of these new jobies.

 

I like the slimmed-down size of m-audio's microtrack, but am not so happy with its slimmed-down list of specs.

 

I am pretty happy with the looks of the new Tascam HD-P2, and will likely buy one unless I am further seduced by Sony's cool new PCM-D1.

 

By the way - CRAIG - did you happen to notice if the PCM-D1 has inputs for external mics, or is it limited to the onboard pair? TIA.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention it, I'm also looking to replace my DATs.

 

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

[Phil O'Keefe]

Hey BL, another potential use for these little boxes is as a DAT replacement.

 

I just thought I'd mention it in case you overlooked that potential use.

[Geoff Grace]

Here's the Sony PCM-D1 Field Recorder that Craig mentioned in the AES thread.

 

At $2,000, it's pretty expensive by portable gadget standards; but it looks like it's worth it. I'm just not sure it's worth it to me though, considering how little I'd use it.

 

My need for this type of device is only occasional - I still write at the piano sometimes; and my piano is in my living room, not in my studio. I still use the same level of technology I've used since the seventies to capture my piano ideas: a cheapo portable cassette recorder. It would be nice if I captured my ideas on a studio quality device, just in case my playing was inspired enough for me to want to use it in a track. However, it's usually simple enough to play my piano ideas again in my studio using Synthogy Ivory.

 

 

[techristian]

Yes I care !

 

As a drummer it would be great to get SAMPLES. How many times have you walked into a corridor where there is a great ambient reverb/echo. It is times like that when I would like to have a portable unit and just start clapping, slapping, and hitting the sidewalk, pipes or bench with drumsticks just like a kid playing with the echoes. Wouldn't it be nice to grab some nice high resolution samples at that moment? I also remember one time in a MacDonalds that a certain table just had this great resonant sound similar to a congo, It would have been nice to capture that sound.

 

I would also like to record peaceful sounds like waves and birds. (Yes I know I can buy CDs like this but these would be MY SOUNDS.)

 

Dan

[Brittanylips]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe Hey BL, another potential use for these little boxes is as a DAT replacement. I just thought I'd mention it in case you overlooked that potential use.

 

Interesting....

 

Flash recording as a replacement for aging DATs....

 

Hmm.....

 

Yeah. i could see that. Good call!

 

-PL&B

[Brittanylips]

Originally posted by Geoff Grace Here's the Sony PCM-D1 Field Recorder that Craig mentioned in the AES thread .

Thanks - (and thanks HC guys for posting it).

 

It looks GREAT, particularly if the mics are good. How cool is that?!

 

What the press release doesn't say is if there are any inputs for external mics. For portable recording, I often like to plug in a soundfield stereo mic system to whatever I'm recording into. I wonder if I could do that with this.

 

If this thing did have some mic or line inputs, I would be more than sold. As it is, I'm liking it alot.

 

Anyone know whether it has any innies?

 

TIA if you do.

 

-PL&B

[valkyriesound]

I saw the Sony at the show and besides it's "cool" looking factor... I really don't like it.

 

1. It does have mic inputs but they're on 1/4" jacks... no XLR...

 

2. It will not direct record to MP2 or MP3. Only WAV. All the other machines seem to have this... but Sony left it out. It may not seem like a big deal until your're out somewhere with a full load of recordings and you need to extend your time avaiable. When I asked about the very standard MP2 format (which we use a lot at NPR because it compresses/uncompresses well) the guy asked me "What's MP2?". OK.... I thought this was Sony PRO Audio division. Actually... all I really got to my questions with my history and real experience in field recording were "why would you need that?" "why would you do that?"

Obviously they didn't really do much market research... they have prosumer features for a professional price point ($2000)

 

3. The way the unit is built is impossible for field recording. You need to be able to sling a device around you in a bag so you can handle the microphones you are using! Why set it up so I have to hold the recorder unit and I can't see the screen or controls from the top of the unit like portable field recorders that have been around for years??? Stupid.

If you're recording a concert... do you really want to hold that thing all night long? How are you going to mount it? The Star Trek configuration doesn't work!

 

Valky