Members dahkter Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Hello,I've been getting my hands wet with mixing this year. Just finished up the book entitled "The Art of Mixing".I found the book very helpful, however they hit upon a concept of which I'm looking for more info, that is how do you go from a good mix (good levels/compression/pan/effects), to a great mix that makes listening to a song from beginning to end more pleasurable, listenable and exciting?Are there any tips or techniques that I can use to make my mixes stand out and make them more fun and interesting to listen to?Thanks,Dahk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitarfrenzy Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 I highly recommend you getting the Secrets of the Pros video, "The Basics of Modern Recording & Mixing". It comes with two DVD videos with over 3 hours of great instruction. Also check out Charles Dye, "Mix It Like A Record", it's also very very informative and will help you become better at mixing. Oh yeah and if you still have some money left.. lol.. buy Russ Long's DVD, it's just as good as the ones above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 GF,Of those three selections, are there any specific tips or techniques that resonated with you that you still use to this day when you sit down to mix a song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 What I learned from all of these guys are that no matter what you do to get the sound you want,..everything is permitted. There are rules but they can be broken all the time. They really are excellent videos Dahk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kendrix Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Ive come to think of mixing as if it was painting ( art not houses). You can read all day long about technique, color relationships, perspective, tonal maps- all the technical and theoretical points. However, in the end, the painting is only as good as the artists ability to apply the tools in each specific scenario. Studying up on mixing tools/techniques helped me to improve quite a bit. However, by itself, that is insufficient to get thngs to the next level you are aspiring to. There is a big chasm between understanding the elements of the mix theoretically and actually getting one to gel. It seems that the final 10-20% of qualtiy just cant be produced based solely on what you learn in a book. Its kinda like playing an instrument. If you do find the magic bullet formula please let me know. BTW- one of my fav books on the subject is "Mixing with your Mind".Its been mentioned here before- do a search. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 If you do find the magic bullet formula please let me know. Agreed, I think I was a bit too vague. I'll follow up with more specific questions as I get to the next junction... All the best,Dahk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Hey Dahk,.. can you send me an mp3 of yourself and tell me what you think is lacking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Hi Boosh, Thanks a lot for the offer (I also like the new signiature by the way!). Unfortunately, I can't send anything to anyone on this one, however I can elaborate a bit on the situation. It's a rap album with several songs, transferred from Tascam eight track cassette to wav.The beats are not tracked out, for most songs it's just one mono track with everything together. That's really the main problem that I think needs addressing, finding a way to split the frequencies of the mono wav and pan them across the sound field... On a larger scale, I'm new to mixing, hence my starting a thread to see any general nuggets of wisdom the veterans could bestow on me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Okay than I understand,... did you do the beats just like the ones on your myspace page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Battle of good versus evil,...... Beat is awesome I like that 80ties feel but the bass and the sample you used is way too low. Summer,... Sample isn't cut that good,..bassline,..too thin,.. kickdrum to punchy in ya face. Contemplating war,..... Beat too loud again,.. Bass and sample too soft,... The frequencies are okay on all songs and there's little need to eq anything,.. just get the levels straight man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 6, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 6, 2007 From Good to Great. What Kendrix said... All the time spent learning techniques to fulfill your vision are mandatory and necessary. But if it stops there, you're stopping at good. To get it great... Each section needs it's surroundings, ambiance, atmosphere, attitude. A section can be a verse or it can be a line of lyrics. Then to have those subtleties or extremities of mood aid in the telling of a story. Be it lyrical or a non tangible mood. To introduce, softly or abruptly, to elaborate, to retract, to build in intent... to crash and burn, to leave quietly... or loudly. But let the song and performance inform you of your choices. Work with the flow and it's easy. "He sounds pissed here, I'm going to dirty up the snare for that bridge and crank that skanky riff...". "He sounds aloof... I need to soften the vox eq a tad." "That rhythm the guitar and clav are doing is intense, what if I push the hat a little to take it over the top?" These are to flow in and out, to change in a dynamic way. There's always something that can be done to help out the already present mood at any given time. Help it arc and shift for the duration of the tune. All to further the intent of the performance and the composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Okay than I understand,... did you do the beats just like the ones on your myspace page? No, that's the problem, if it were my own beats I could heed your advice (which is much appreciated by the way), and go back and adjust my levels. The current project I'm working on is a mono rap beat (not mine, no multitrack recordings exist) that needs to sound minty fresh. How to go about something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 All to further the intent of the performance and the composition. Nice articulate post Lee, I hear ya loud and clear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 6, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 6, 2007 The current project I'm working on is a mono rap beat (not mine, no multitrack recordings exist) that needs to sound minty fresh.How to go about something like that? Set up a few different treatments for the beats. All different and separate. They can be used separate or together. Use a percolating filter.Use a a dusty old school tape soundUse bouncing panned and timed delaysUse a Lo pass filter set to varying degrees Then play the different effects to varying degrees and alone or together in different combos. All the heighten the mood and effect your imagination is asking for. Mute stuff... stack stuff. Etc. Build, decompose. Explode... recover. On the 2nd verse, mute the beat but use a feedbacking delay on the last note. As the rapper is doing his stuff have the feedback build to a reversed cymbal that stops and the down beat of the 2nd half of the 2nd verse. Right then the beat returns but with big girthy distortion and a boomy Bohnam room sound like the Chemical Bros. Big Beat stuff. For the bridge bring the beat down to just high hat frequencies by using high and lo pass filters, or a band pass with those timed delays you set up. Or whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Wow Lee,You're like the Timothy Leary of engineers LOL! Good stuff though, I get it... Thanks, appreciate it. Set up a few different treatments for the beats. All different and separate. They can be used separate or together.Use a percolating filter.Use a a dusty old school tape soundUse bouncing panned and timed delaysUse a Lo pass filter set to varying degreesThen play the different effects to varying degrees and alone or together in different combos. All the heighten the mood and effect your imagination is asking for. Mute stuff... stack stuff. Etc. Build, decompose. Explode... recover.On the 2nd verse, mute the beat but use a feedbacking delay on the last note. As the rapper is doing his stuff have the feedback build to a reversed cymbal that stops and the down beat of the 2nd half of the 2nd verse. Right then the beat returns but with big girthy distortion and a boomy Bohnam room sound like the Chemical Bros. Big Beat stuff.For the bridge bring the beat down to just high hat frequencies by using high and lo pass filters, or a band pass with those timed delays you set up.Or whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 There's no way to mute the beat when you have a mono file with everything else present so you have to work with what you've got. This is more audio-restoring and cleaning up and eq-ing than really mixing stuff I'm afraid. You can use everything Lee said except the muting beats etc,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 For me, it's all about the details. I might listen to a song a total of 200 - 300 times when mixing. Each time I hear something that could be better, I stop and work on it, then start again. Eventually you hone all the details till the song and its mix are a coherent entity, where if the mix were different the song would not be as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members motord Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 When I first started mixing, I took the approach of "I'll tweak the levels until they're perfect, then leave them alone." My mixes took a huge leap in quality when I abandoned the idea of the levels being static once they're "set." Consider changing the level relationship between the instruments for different sections, or bringing certain elements to the fore when appropriate. I work primarily with rock music, but an example would be to boost a drum fill leading into a chorus for effect. Be careful though, because if you go too far, it can throw off the context you've established. And don't be afraid to ride the hell out of a vocal track (or any track that needs it) - even syllable by syllable in some cases - to make it sit in the track correctly. Performances are often inconsistent in level, so there won't be one fader position that makes it work. And bring some humility to the table, because it can take a long, long time to get good at mixing. I'm still working hard, and waiting patiently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cry Logic Posted June 7, 2007 Members Share Posted June 7, 2007 Many people think highly of a book called Mixing with Your Mind,by Michael Stavrou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synonym Music Posted June 7, 2007 Members Share Posted June 7, 2007 There's no way to mute the beat when you have a mono file with everything else present so you have to work with what you've got.This is more audio-restoring and cleaning up and eq-ing than really mixing stuff I'm afraid.You can use everything Lee said except the muting beats etc,.... Yep. There's still a lot of responsibility that lies on the tracking side, and from the sound of it they're asking you to do the impossible.... No wonder you feel overwhelmed. That said... Any thoughts on Mid-Side widening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted June 7, 2007 Members Share Posted June 7, 2007 Take out ANYTHING that doesn't further the song. Less is more when it comes to mixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 Yep. There's still a lot of responsibility that lies on the tracking side, and from the sound of it they're asking you to do the impossible.... No wonder you feel overwhelmed.That said... Any thoughts on Mid-Side widening? I often do the opposite: mid-side narrowing Often times a stereo instrument, or a stereo stem mix has humongous width, like a drum kit that fills the entire sound stage. I take this run it into a stereo->M-S plugin, lower the S output a bit, then run it into a MS->Stereo to get back to stereo. There are other cool things... I found a free VST M-S toolkit somewhere on the web, with MS dynamics, MS EQ, a few other goodies... Sorry I don't have a link for it, it's been quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synonym Music Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 I often do the opposite: mid-side narrowing Often times a stereo instrument, or a stereo stem mix has humongous width, like a drum kit that fills the entire sound stage. I take this run it into a stereo->M-S plugin, lower the S output a bit, then run it into a MS->Stereo to get back to stereo. There are other cool things... I found a free VST M-S toolkit somewhere on the web, with MS dynamics, MS EQ, a few other goodies... Sorry I don't have a link for it, it's been quite a while. Hmm. Not free... But hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 I have never mixed what I would call an "excellent" mix but my better mixes were ones where I actually did not make all the moves I thought it needed. My best mixes were done very quickly while the song still sounded fresh to my ears. EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted June 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 For any of those interested, Voxengo offers a free midside eq encoder/decoder: http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/ I will give it a shot this weekend, thanks all for the replies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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