Members BlueStrat Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's not anything new. What's new is that Rock is not dominating the Top 100. Back in the 80's it seemed like big hair metal dominated everything. Even the 90's seemed real big on grunge rock bands. Now the kids would rather listen to rap than rock. Except the kids who go to Guitar Center - they all seem to listen to classic rock. I guess if you're a guitar player, there's not actually all that much guitar IN the Top 100 right now... It may have seemed Hair metal bands dominated the 80s, and it was big, but I was surprised by what I found when I researched it. http://www.pure80spop.co.uk/bestsellersalbums.htm Best sellers by year from 1980 to 1989 http://www.mademan.com/mm/10-best-selling-artists-80s.html Top ten best sellers of all the 8os . http://www.tripletsandus.com/80s/popcharts.htm Year by year Billboards charts. In an entire decade the only charting "Hair bands' was Foreigner (not really a hair band per se), Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, and Poison with a ballad. I do notice lots of charting solo acts even back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niceguy Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Thanks for the tips! Actually, with the exception of Last.fm, these are things I've tried. I think it's a matter of putting in the effort, which admittedly, I haven't been doing. I have a YouTube channel that hasn't been active for several years. (Got a bit intimidated when YouTube switched to the wide-screen format, in effect making my videos all look outdated.) I really should start getting back into it again. I received quite a bit of positive feedback when I was regularly posting videos. I still receive comments on my videos about three years on. One person said they'd buy a CD of mine if I had one. So it will probably become more useful to me when I have a proper album available (I hope to release something by this year).One more question, if you don't mind me asking...do you release your music as full albums, or just make the tracks available as you go along? Sure, but again, this is all just my experience. There's no right or wrong way to do any of this. I released a full-length album, just to have some "meat" out there. After that, I released a short EP. I'll release more EP's later, but for now, I'm just letting the existing songs build their audience. If you were receiving positive feedback on your videos, then you should absolutely upload new vids. Seriously, there doesn't need to be an OK Go styled gimmick involved. Just have the song playing along with images of your cover art or whatever. YouTube is THE music streaming site, hands-down. And in the description, say that your music is for sale at itunes or whatever. Tag the video appropriately and see what happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted February 9, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 9, 2012 It may have seemed Hair metal bands dominated the 80s, and it was big, but I was surprised by what I found when I researched it. http://www.pure80spop.co.uk/bestsellersalbums.htm Best sellers by year from 1980 to 1989http://www.mademan.com/mm/10-best-selling-artists-80s.html Top ten best sellers of all the 8os. http://www.tripletsandus.com/80s/popcharts.htm Year by year Billboards charts. In an entire decade the only charting "Hair bands' was Foreigner (not really a hair band per se), Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, and Poison with a ballad. it was the 'power ballad' era...but again, despite the almost incessant top 40 radio airplay, the point for bands was album sales, not singles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beatpoet Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 See, I don't see that - I see the more likely path being along the lines of Taylor Swift - The pretty girl (or guy) who can sing. When I look on Billboard, right now, of the top 20 country songs, 17 of them are individual artists. Only 3 are bands. That's definitely the case in the UK, I think the only bands in the top twenty sellers of last year were Coldplay and Noel Gallagher's HFB (and Noel is solo technically). The Brit School is churning out singers hand over fist and there doesn't seem to be any letup. Maybe it's because of the state of the world with the recession and stuff, the masses just seem to want pop music that'll uplift them. I guess that's always been the case anyway really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 It's funny , but almost every book I've ever read about songwriting and creativity tries to really encourage collaboration . The old two heads are better than one theme . But of course you can't have too many ego's or folks that can't be trusted to not try and pry all the glory away for themselves ( you know ; ... singers !! :-) ) It used to be the same with album projects ( they had that funny collabotation thingy going). The ruttles ( Beatles) had George Martin around ; he was a graduate of a musical conservatory , which came in a little handy when it was time to write the strings for Elanor Rigby or Golden Slumbers (No , Ringo didn't do it :-) ) So when folks like to cry a river about how there's a dearth of cool music ( Or maybe they just don't know how to find it ; I wouldn't know ...) They should remember that since their favorite singer isn't hiring any professional songwriters ( don't want to share a slice of the smaller digital pie) they may apply their golden voice to lesser crafted songs ... But the problem with having a so called " WEB- meritocracy" ( It's actually a mediocre-tocracy!!) is that actually song craft or musical knowledge isn't worth a hill of beans when know one can even recognize let alone appreciate such things . I realized this sometime ago when I stumbled upon a blog where the "musicians coaching " guru was encouraging his minions to get straight back to those the Uber catchy choruses again and again AND banish the thought of ever attempting to write a bridge !!!! Many of todays music stylings are laser focused upon the rhythmic elements. ( albeit with some very intricate and impressive syncopation and cross-rhythms) I think that the kids who still gravitate toward some of the Old stuff are unconsciously craving some melodic or harmonic elements in music and some balance against the rhythmic myopia . But the point being , a real education in western musical traditions is quite the investment , And if someone wants to be able to hang with a songwriter of the likes of say a Leonard Cohen or someone like that, it's a titanic lifetime commitment, and, at the moment , I don't really see how and sober person who has taken a look and made serious evaluation of the present musical ecosystem ( analog dollars = digital Penny's) could even be asking themselves " should I be a single act or part of a band " ;... The real question they should be asking is " Law school or Engineering School ???"( or door 3 , a musical vow of poverty , providing content for the tech sector to profit from ..... (:bor:IS the new boss really better than the old boss ??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 But the problem with having a so called " WEB- meritocracy" ( It's actually a mediocre-tocracy!!) is that actually song craft or musical knowledge isn't worth a hill of beans when know one can even recognize let alone appreciate such things Which goes back to the point I made earlier about people today not benefiting from an experienced producer to tell them not every one of their songs should be recorded. It goes back to the "self esteem' movement of the 80s, where every screed, scrawl and daub of fingerpaint a child produced went a straight to the refrigerator door for everyone to view and admire. The quality of something was ignored, and in fact the kids were told that quality was an entirely subjective thing that no one had a right to define. Therefore, quality was whatever the person producing something said it was. The result today of this mass self-delusion is that we have a generation of kids who not only want to be seen, but think everything they do ought to be shared- hence the poplularity of facebook, youtube, and other interactive media. Oh, and DIY recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted February 10, 2012 Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 The real question they should be asking is " Law school or Engineering School ???"( or door 3 , a musical vow of poverty , providing content for the tech sector to profit from ..... Actually, there's no longer an clear answer to that question anymore either, considering an increasingly large number of college graduates are now unemployed and thousands of dollars in debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pitar Posted February 11, 2012 Members Share Posted February 11, 2012 An interesting blog about the pros and cons of trying to gain commercial success (i.e. money) as a solo artist vs. band member. http://www.musicthinktank.com/blog/one-for-all-or-all-for-one-solo-artistry-versus-the-band-in.htmlI'm with the solo approach - bands don't make sense any more. A duo can still make sense, but you'd better be real close. I'm on board with this. I have tried band settings and they're not for me. I'm too focused on what I want to write/play, it's not open to opinion and that pretty much stymies any chance of cooperation. Anything else in life I can be a team player but not with music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarterwave Posted February 11, 2012 Members Share Posted February 11, 2012 From a writer's perspective - I think it just gets to a point where after "x" amount of songs, you start to exhaust all of your own ideas - at least within a given period of time (say 6-12 months). Meaning that, if you write a PROPER song a week (not just a quick riff and "I'll figure out the rest later") for 6 months, you will reach a point where anything you write will sound re-hashed. So, by collaborating with other people, you essentially inject "new blood" into the creative process, which can spur new creativity. It might be good - or bad - but something will come of it that you would not have been able to think up by yourself. Granted, sometimes collaborating is really hard to do - even with people that are all on "the same page", but from my experience as a professional songwriter, you need to have other people around you to bounce ideas off of - most importantly, people that you RESPECT - in order to get the best out of you. Having said that, band mates sometimes aren't the best (or the only) co-writers out there - as other's have already mentioned here - but that is often because they are not on the same page as you - so naturally, things are going to get hot when your idea's clash..... plus, until one of you get's famous, neither of you can really "prove" who is right and so the tug of war continues. The best way that I've found works and has proven to be productive when working with others, is to be clear with your opinions and intentions right from the start, and most importantly - to be open minded with people that you are writing with - as you never know when that "cloud-parting moment" will arrive or who will bring it.... Case in point - I had a session recently, where a guest singer from Nashville came in to track a vocal, which initially I REALLY disliked, and wanted it re-done. Unfortunately, time wasn't on our side, so we had to let it sit for a while, and during that time, I remixed a few things, and now, I can't imagine any other vocal being on the track.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beatpoet Posted February 11, 2012 Members Share Posted February 11, 2012 From a writer's perspective - I think it just gets to a point where after "x" amount of songs, you start to exhaust all of your own ideas - at least within a given period of time (say 6-12 months). Meaning that, if you write a PROPER song a week (not just a quick riff and "I'll figure out the rest later") for 6 months, you will reach a point where anything you write will sound re-hashed. So, by collaborating with other people, you essentially inject "new blood" into the creative process, which can spur new creativity. It might be good - or bad - but something will come of it that you would not have been able to think up by yourself. On the flipside of that, sometimes songwriters/bands just find a formula that works for them and then they can't deviate from it. I'd say that's true of some bands who have managed to make at least four albums - you see them meandering around on their first three or four and then from the fifth on they settle down. Commercial success has something to do with it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 21, 2012 Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 Wow. great thread. Timely, too. I have a friend who I used to say "his mom tied a pork chop around his neck so the dog would play with him" because he wasn't in a real band. He records/releases at least a CD a year and in the past couple years, he's paid out of pocket for some of the "studio" guys on his records to come out and play gigs with him. He can't be breaking even. I was very critical of it in the past. Lately I have been giving it more consideration. I may be wrong, but it sure seems like people are coming from freaking nowhere and putting a video on youtube and then ending up on SNL as the musical guest. You have to admit, that'd be pretty sweet wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted February 22, 2012 Members Share Posted February 22, 2012 If I'd had all this gear at 20, I would have never left the house. EVER. Education is wasted on the young, but high quality music equipment is wasted on the old, maybe? I'm actually 20 years old and more or less am in the same position as you. I rarely ever leave the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 niceguy, I agree with you about shows, but as far as youtube goes, you would have to get millions of plays to make a few bucks with ads... Way out of my league, unless one of my vids goes viral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted March 4, 2012 Members Share Posted March 4, 2012 niceguy, I agree with you about shows, but as far as youtube goes, you would have to get millions of plays to make a few bucks with ads... Way out of my league, unless one of my vids goes viral. Well, I have seen some members go on to become YouTube "partners" when their channel gains a large enough following, where YouTube pays them in exchange for ad space. I would imagine it takes a ton of work to get there, though, and they probably don't get rich off of it (not that anyone would expect to.) But even if one never makes it up to that level, as a promotional tool and a way to build an audience, I can see how it is probably one of the most effective ways to do it on the web, if you choose not to play live. Though, I'm pretty sure the ones with the most success with it do both, using YouTube to promote their live gigs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RazorBladeRay Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 well I am actually looking to be a solo artist,I'd be doing live looping for rhythm guitar with a loop pedal,having a groove box synth and drums,and keyboard which I could program,I actually dont need a band when I could be a one man band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Bartus Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 Which goes back to the point I made earlier about people today not benefiting from an experienced producer to tell them not every one of their songs should be recorded. It goes back to the "self esteem' movement of the 80s, where every screed, scrawl and daub of fingerpaint a child produced went a straight to the refrigerator door for everyone to view and admire. The quality of something was ignored, and in fact the kids were told that quality was an entirely subjective thing that no one had a right to define. Therefore, quality was whatever the person producing something said it was. The result today of this mass self-delusion is that we have a generation of kids who not only want to be seen, but think everything they do ought to be shared- hence the poplularity of facebook, youtube, and other interactive media. Oh, and DIY recording. THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 well I am actually looking to be a solo artist,I'd be doing live looping for rhythm guitar with a loop pedal,having a groove box synth and drums,and keyboard which I could program,I actually dont need a band when I could be a one man band. I don't know. There is a line between "solo artist" and "one man band" for me. Kind of like the line between using tracks and having it just be karaoke with a guitar and a vocal mic. Not sure where that line is, but it's kind of one of those things that you know it when you see it. Still, if people pay you to do it, I guess it's a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members michael_B Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 Which goes back to the point I made earlier about people today not benefiting from an experienced producer to tell them not every one of their songs should be recorded. It goes back to the "self esteem' movement of the 80s, where every screed, scrawl and daub of fingerpaint a child produced went a straight to the refrigerator door for everyone to view and admire. The quality of something was ignored, and in fact the kids were told that quality was an entirely subjective thing that no one had a right to define. Therefore, quality was whatever the person producing something said it was. The result today of this mass self-delusion is that we have a generation of kids who not only want to be seen, but think everything they do ought to be shared- hence the poplularity of facebook, youtube, and other interactive media. Oh, and DIY recording. Where were you in the 80's? I don't really see the relation you are trying to portray, or how kids finger painting relates to "todays" music. It's no different today, or from the 70's for that matter. Kids oversharing?? You do know that the larger demographic using up the bandwidth at facebook are well over 30, right? I get 50 chain emails a week from my older relatives, and I'm sure that if they figured out twitter, they'd be all over that too. I have news for you older folks. While you folks are all lamenting the fact the good old days are gone and about the kids making a racket on your lawn, they are doing just fine, making music, and some of it pretty extraordinary. Things have shifted and the old structure for music making is rusted and falling apart. In the end, I'll take the independent minded musician who has the balls to put something out, play on a street corner or coffee shop, making some amazing media and videos over heavily produced music. Nashville is the perfect example. There is nothing more dull to me than modern country music, and the phalanxes of songwriters and producers it takes to churn it out. On the subject of bands...I think that it is still few and far between when you find that magic when you get 3-5 or more people playing music. That's no different now, than it was 20 or 30 years ago. There's gigs out there for many, but less for a traditional band, depending on you geographic location and style of music. A good friend plays in a band that plays all Mexican music, 3 or 4 gigs a month, and makes a nice lump of money. Conversely a family member plays solo acoustic shows locally, and sometimes is only playing for coffee. We can talk about how the internet has made music worse, and I used to feel that way, but I saw the light, and I changed my mind. Loads of good music out there, more than ever before, and if you know where to look, you can find it, and yes, artists are making money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 I have news for you older folks. While you folks are all lamenting the fact the good old days are gone and about the kids making a racket on your lawn, they are doing just fine, making music, and some of it pretty extraordinary. Things have shifted and the old structure for music making is rusted and falling apart. In the end, I'll take the independent minded musician who has the balls to put something out, play on a street corner or coffee shop, making some amazing media and videos over heavily produced music. Nashville is the perfect example. There is nothing more dull to me than modern country music, and the phalanxes of songwriters and producers it takes to churn it out. I agree with everything you said here. But that doesn't negate a thing I said in the post of mine you quoted. There is more absolute {censored} being put out now than ever before, simply because there's no one to stop anyone from doing it. I don't see how anyone can even argue that point. And the whole "look at me'' generation tag wasnt' made up by guys my age. I have three kids 22,24 and 27. All of them live, breathe and die for FB, twitter, text messaging, IMs, and any other means of being in constant contact with other people all the time. artists are making money. Please define "artists" and "making money". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RazorBladeRay Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't know. There is a line between "solo artist" and "one man band" for me. Kind of like the line between using tracks and having it just be karaoke with a guitar and a vocal mic. Not sure where that line is, but it's kind of one of those things that you know it when you see it. Still, if people pay you to do it, I guess it's a moot point. well I would be using loop pedals for guitar and keyboards,I am actually doing techno music which I would like to call it "Techno-Rock". all I'd ever need is a 8-string guitar,keyboards and a groovebox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 well I would be using loop pedals for guitar and keyboards,I am actually doing techno music which I would like to call it "Techno-Rock". all I'd ever need is a 8-string guitar,keyboards and a groovebox Cool! I'd like to hear it. There's a guy here who does a one man band and plays classic rock hits. He plays guitar and sings. I don't know, it just sounds cheesy whenever I hear him. But he gets booked and he gets paid, so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Which goes back to the point I made earlier about people today not benefiting from an experienced producer to tell them not every one of their songs should be recorded. It goes back to the "self esteem' movement of the 80s, where every screed, scrawl and daub of fingerpaint a child produced went a straight to the refrigerator door for everyone to view and admire. The quality of something was ignored, and in fact the kids were told that quality was an entirely subjective thing that no one had a right to define. Therefore, quality was whatever the person producing something said it was. The result today of this mass self-delusion is that we have a generation of kids who not only want to be seen, but think everything they do ought to be shared- hence the poplularity of facebook, youtube, and other interactive media. Oh, and DIY recording. +1000 -------- Also a good point about musical talent, not everyone can write music, sing, front a band etc. I think everyone should take a hard look at what they have to sell, and what part of a band or the music industry they can be apart of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 It feels funny to say this, because I do play out gigs w/backing tracks, but... Sometimes I have this fear... that years from now, being able to play an instrument live will be looked at the same way we look at juggling now... as in "Well, I can see where that is difficult to do, but who cares?" I hope that day never arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think in the end, the cream almost always rises to the top. Some cream might be cheesy pop solo artists like Lily Allen, and other cream might be modestly-known modern day prog rock bands like Porcupine Tree, or undefinable bands like Spiral Beach. But in the end, they all rose to the top of their respective scenes. I guess my point is that no matter what happens, drive, determination, skill, and 100 other positive traits play into it, but a great song or songs is absolutely necessary. While production can absolutely make a difference between good and great, it still somehow boils down to the performance IMO, and a great artist or band can overcome {censored}ty production.. see Nirvana for proof. To the topic itself, I've been thinking the same thing with "why bother".. it is at times a huge PITA and sometimes I want to kill my bandmates, BUT I still love performing live with the band. I wouldn't really enjoy being a one-man-show, nor could I ever actually do that. I am working on the side right now as a solo instrumental writer (mood music) and may see some success if MY cream rises to the top. That depends on me and the quality of music and how well I find ways to distribute it. I somehow feel like most of the reason we are seeing so much failure in the biz is simply because it's FAR more visible with the internet, and that it's become far easier to produce a lot of crap and sling it at the internet-wall to see what sticks, whereas most of the crap out there wouldn't have seen the light of day, or ever even been made when someone had to invest more time and $$ into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I somehow feel like most of the reason we are seeing so much failure in the biz is simply because it's FAR more visible with the internet, and that it's become far easier to produce a lot of crap and sling it at the internet-wall to see what sticks, whereas most of the crap out there wouldn't have seen the light of day, or ever even been made when someone had to invest more time and $$ into it. My point exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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