Members Poker99 Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 Cream rises to the top... But {censored} floats, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KMB4 Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 I do most of the recording myself. I'm the composer, producer/engineer, co-vocalist, main instrumentalist and overall heartbeat of the band ASCENDANT. I own and run the publishing company for our songs (performed and recorded by either our band or some other acts I've produced). I either write or co-write the lyrics with my songwriting partner/co-vocalist as well. There have been some ups and downs over the past 12 years since ASCENDANT started but we're still doing it. I'm a full time musician (I'm hired backup keyboardist for some cover tunes acts around Chicago) and I make a decent living off of music from all of it (song synch placements as well) I'm not a millionaire but I didn't set out to be. It's all mostly in what you make of your life. ASCENDANT is sort of an inbetweener. I always wanted it to be a full band but never could get more than a few to be on the same page for any length of time. So we started as a trio (keys, bass and we all sang leads and background) and hired a drummer. Voila. Instant band. Eventually, we added a guitarist (once we could afford one). We made a mark locally and even opened for some higher profile acts on the soul music scene. We released our first full length CD in 2003 and had some nice initial success with it. Since then we've had some member changes but we're still going strong. We'll see how the new CD and new crew work out for this next project. We have horn arrangements this time as well. We've even recently performed with the horns in January. I intend to do so again whenever I can afford to have them. It's all a process. Just thought I'd add to the conversation. By the way, although I shy away from labeling it anything, we're classified as "soul /neosoul /R&B" and yes we're on YouTube as well but not getting that ad money like niceguy - ascendantvideo on YouTube if you're so inclined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted March 9, 2012 Members Share Posted March 9, 2012 Cream rises to the top... But {censored} floats, too! yes, but EVERYBODY knows a floater when they see one (or in this case HEAR).. mostly those are the "Vanilla Ice's" of the music world. I guess it can't be helped no matter how much filtering is applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 12, 2012 Members Share Posted March 12, 2012 yes, but EVERYBODY knows a floater when they see one (or in this case HEAR).. I disagree. How do you explain floaters selling millions of albums then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Just read the Rolling Stone Profile of Skrillex. This guy plays a laptop. He's packing theatres & clubs - gigs at $200,000 a pop to watch him DJ. That all goes into his pocket. He ain't moving in some top-heavy crew. And the audience goes nuts for what he's selling. If you are in a young person interested in becoming a popular musical entertainer you're on crack if are trying to do that by putting together a band. This kid is showing where things are going. I'll admit that I don't {censored}ing get it. He's playing his Laptop? This is exciting because??? But he's not making music for me. Kids love this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Just read the Rolling Stone Profile of Skrillex. This guy plays a laptop. He's packing theatres & clubs - gigs at $200,000 a pop to watch him DJ. That all goes into his pocket. He ain't moving in some top-heavy crew. And the audience goes nuts for what he's selling. If you are in a young person interested in becoming a popular musical entertainer you're on crack if are trying to do that by putting together a band. This kid is showing where things are going. I'll admit that I don't {censored}ing get it. He's playing his Laptop? This is exciting because??? But he's not making music for me. Kids love this stuff. You're assuming that everyone can do what he does, as if it was all laptop and no personality and/or performance by the DJ himself. It's the same thing as saying "Lili Allen made it on the internet, therefore everyone can." No, they can't, because the medium is the means, not the product. For every kid like this one you described, there are a million who would do the same thing and fall flat on their face- just like in every other artistic endeavor. Another consideration: Mike Campbell is a great guitar player. He's not a singer, not a front man, not a charismatic personality. Does anyone seriously think he'd have gone anywhere unless he played in Tom Petty's band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Bartus Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 This is a well heeled perspective, IMO. Certainly rings of the BS we are telling kids these days. My wife started out with trying to apply the same BS to our kids but I put a monkey wrench in that nonsense. For every attempt she made at convincing them they walked on water I showed them they did not. We fought a lot. I will not deceive children. It wasn't until I sat her down one day after one battle and openly asked her why she insisted on deceiving my sons that she started thinking about it. That was a hard-won battle because she was a child of the system that brainwashed her. Almost lost her. Now she is a balancing act of work, discipline, and regimentation to earn rather than expect reward. Before, it cost nothing to talk about rewarding for the sake of rewarding. Now, it's a tough prize to win and much more cherished, as it should be. This reminds me of a lesson i learned early in life -- words that can immediately deflate the overblown sense of self-importance: The cemeteries are full of irreplaceable people. That just kind of sums it all up right there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 I disagree. How do you explain floaters selling millions of albums then? in most cases it's a one-time affair, meaning - how successful was vanilla ice's career compared to most "cream" musicians like say madonna, or michael jackson? I liken the floaters to drunk bar sex, both the fans and the drunk wake up the next morning saying "what was I thinking?!" no sense really trying to explain exception to the rules in life, can't draw conclusions from exceptions unless exceptions become the rule, but then they are no longer exceptions.. yameen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 in most cases it's a one-time affair, meaning - how successful was vanilla ice's career compared to most "cream" musicians like say madonna, or michael jackson? I liken the floaters to drunk bar sex, both the fans and the drunk wake up the next morning saying "what was I thinking?!"no sense really trying to explain exception to the rules in life, can't draw conclusions from exceptions unless exceptions become the rule, but then they are no longer exceptions.. yameen? Well, you make a good point. On the other hand, the sheer number of turds that float to the top is amazing- even though they only have one or two hits compared to Michael or Madonna, it seems there's always another one or two that rises up to take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2012 the music business relies on teh turds to fill the gaps that form between their discovering the next big things... and those gaps get bigger every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 the music business relies on teh turds to fill the gaps that form between their discovering the next big things... and those gaps get bigger every year Seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted March 18, 2012 Members Share Posted March 18, 2012 You're assuming that everyone can do what he does, as if it was all laptop and no personality and/or performance by the DJ himself. It's the same thing as saying "Lili Allen made it on the internet, therefore everyone can." No, they can't, because the medium is the means, not the product. For every kid like this one you described, there are a million who would do the same thing and fall flat on their face- just like in every other artistic endeavor. Another consideration: Mike Campbell is a great guitar player. He's not a singer, not a front man, not a charismatic personality. Does anyone seriously think he'd have gone anywhere unless he played in Tom Petty's band? Oh, no. I"m not knocking him. I believe in market dynamics. You don't just pay some hack $200,000 for a show for no reason. He's the stone cold nuts at whatever he does. Whatever that is. He's making that money for a reason. I don't understand it, is all. But no doubt this cat has mad skills in his medium - what I find striking is that medium is so far removed from the type of entertainment I grew up enjoying just a decade and a half ago. Sea Change - I kinda thought I was still young. People lining up to watch someone DJ - I'm past the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted March 18, 2012 Members Share Posted March 18, 2012 Well, not to sound egotistical here, but I write everything and I really don't need anyone else to help me create music, so I have no reason to be in a band except on stage for the sake of stage presence. People are hard to trust and you never know just how fast you'll want to strangle them when you're on tour. I'm going to take the side musician route because there's no way I'm about to give someone a piece of the pie that I've been cooking up for half of my life. Usually, other band mates are free loaders and don't have the same drive and work ethnic (or creative ability) as one or two members, and that's not a situation I want to deal with. 2nd this...hard to get everyone in a band focused on the same goals, and dedicated enough to make it work. And while the concept of a "democratic" band sounds good on paper, one has never actually existed. (not even The Beatles...Lennon was the sparkplug and tyrant there!) I just hire rhythm sections, as needed, and do a lot of solo gigs...solo gigs pay MUCH better, but trio/quartet gigs are fun/interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 19, 2012 Members Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well, you make a good point. On the other hand, the sheer number of turds that float to the top is amazing- even though they only have one or two hits compared to Michael or Madonna, it seems there's always another one or two that rises up to take their place. THIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stephen Quinn Posted March 22, 2012 Members Share Posted March 22, 2012 I too have experienced the difficulties in trying to put a band together. The key is too search hard and be selective about who you work with and find players who can add benefit to the sound and direction you're steering towards. At the moment I'm just composing by myself then going to record professionally before thinking about reproducing the music live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 420ven Posted April 26, 2012 Members Share Posted April 26, 2012 to have funwhether you're a solo artist or a band, you just gotta have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The-Enforcer Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 Interesting read, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huggy B Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 Interesting yes, and it raises even more questions to myself. I am a guitarist that writes and cannot sing very well, all my songs are sung by friends and peers that do it just because they like my material, (or me). That said, due to time, funds, and resources I have no plans of putting together a band. Is that a huge mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 27, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 27, 2012 the mistake is not improving your own singing skills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted April 27, 2012 Members Share Posted April 27, 2012 Just read the Rolling Stone Profile of Skrillex. This guy plays a laptop. He's packing theatres & clubs - gigs at $200,000 a pop to watch him DJ. That all goes into his pocket. He ain't moving in some top-heavy crew. And the audience goes nuts for what he's selling. If you are in a young person interested in becoming a popular musical entertainer you're on crack if are trying to do that by putting together a band. This kid is showing where things are going. I'll admit that I don't {censored}ing get it. He's playing his Laptop? This is exciting because??? But he's not making music for me. Kids love this stuff. Skrillex basically took the sound of dubstep and made it slightly more commercial. He wasn't the first to do it but he was the first with enough luck and dedication to bring it forward. But DJs are nothing new - it's been going since the 90s. Though I admit that computerized music is where it is going, I doubt it's going to replace the enjoyment of live sessions musicians any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huggy B Posted April 28, 2012 Members Share Posted April 28, 2012 the mistake is not improving your own singing skills... Actually I have, in singing backup on most of my songs, but the fact is I *DO NOT* have the potential to be a lead singer in any way.(range,quality of tone,chops) Not everyone can be that, and I'm not one of them. This is a true admission., I'm not a young cat, I would have had to start a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 28, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 28, 2012 well, neither does Bob Dylan, as an example...and yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lephty Posted April 29, 2012 Members Share Posted April 29, 2012 I play sometimes with a very talented young singer/songwriter (sort of in the alt-country genre), and have the "why bother with a band" conversation with her all the time. She's 21, and quite frankly there aren't a whole lot of good, experienced players her age. And I know plenty of pros (I'm 42 and have been playing pro-ishly for 25 years), but she can't really afford to hire pros for gigs that don't pay. So mostly she does solo gigs, coffee-house style, but every once in a while she gets an offer for a relatively big gig that really calls for a full band. And what we find is that it's tough to put together a band of hired guns for a single gig, even if they are great players, and expect to sound tight and to have some chemistry. It's kind of a catch-22 for her, and I still don't exactly know what to tell her. But if you really want to blow the audience away, I definitely think that there's no substitute for a good, tight band with some real chemistry. And those who manage to put that kind of band together are pretty lucky. If anyone's interested, she's on Reverb Nation: http://www.reverbnation.com/oliviarudeen. Really talented writer, IMO. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huggy B Posted April 29, 2012 Members Share Posted April 29, 2012 well, neither does Bob Dylan, as an example...and yet... Yes that can be said, although he did start singing at a young age while I am a middle age jazz guitarist that used to smoke, the math is there. Taking the time to try to make myself into a presentable lead vocalist is not a wise endeavor, given the time and resources. (& passion, I'm a guitar player) I already attempted this(singing my own songs) prior to doing the project I'm finishing up now, I put a good amount of effort into it but it was not well received. "The music is cool but..... " is what I mostly heard back from people. In fact one of the songs I did myself, and got poopoo'ed, is #1 on my recent music survey, sung by a "real" singer. I'm a "proof is in the pudding" kinda person. Your advice is good (thanks), given the right situation, but I'm looking forward to finishing up this project and getting back to guitar music, my core. While I still have work to do in trying to place any of this material, I plan to start a thread on this subject to see what other members/songwriters might have experienced on this matter. You're right to think "invest in your own self", but let's face it, Dylan was in a different time and he might not have the same impact if he where to come out of the box today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted April 29, 2012 Members Share Posted April 29, 2012 You're right to think "invest in your own self", but let's face it, Dylan was in a different time and he might not have the same impact if he where to come out of the box today. Great songs are great songs, and people are still recording them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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