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  • Around here - it's $100 for what the sound guys call a "briefcase gig" (that's where they come out and run OUR gear). Actually renting a real PA (i.e., 16+ channels, subs, mains, 4-6 monitor wedges) AND a sound guy to run it ... much more than that. A $300 sound rental means dealing with VERY low end gear - AND most likely, a sound "engineer" who's competency is questionable.



    As far as "house sound" goes - I haven't seen a "house system" in any of the venues I play in more than 20 years. That's just not how things work in the market that I play in.
    The SpaceNorman

    www.facebook.com/SuperstarsOfRock
    www.souldoutrocks.com

    Keyboards and Tone Generators: Yamaha CP300, Kronos 88, Roland AX Synth, Motif ES Rack
    Keyboard Rack: Samson SM10 Line Mixer, Motu MIDIExpressXT MIDI Interface, Shure PSM200 IEM system, M-Audio Wireless MIDI, Live Wires IEM ear buds, iPad wOnSong.
    Stage Amplification: Stereo via 2 Yamaha DSR112s

    Comment








    • Quote Originally Posted by SpaceNorman
      View Post

      Around here - it's $100 for what the sound guys call a "briefcase gig" (that's where they come out and run OUR gear). Actually renting a real PA (i.e., 16+ channels, subs, mains, 4-6 monitor wedges) AND a sound guy to run it ... much more than that. A $300 sound rental means dealing with VERY low end gear - AND most likely, a sound "engineer" who's competency is questionable.



      As far as "house sound" goes - I haven't seen a "house system" in any of the venues I play in more than 20 years. That's just not how things work in the market that I play in.




      This, exactly.

      A good friend who is an excellent and in-demand engineer gives us a break on pricing to mix on provided systems...be they house or our own. And that price is $100.
      For cripe's sake, somebody buy that kid a freaking DICTIONARY already!

      Comment


      • The way we did it was many-fold. We hired a company at times. We teamed up with a guy who got all our gigs for a better deal. And... we had a guy who would set up a full system, including kick ass subs, mids, and radial horns or lens, and I would run it from stage. In one circumstance, I would run a Rane Monitor Mixer as our monitors and as a Main Mix Out. That is how I got the audio bug and went on to study and specialize.



        But I know that as fly by night as some of these guys are, they are very open to steady work. Deals can be made. We did. In many different incarnations and permutations. A lot of very good guys are most likely sitting home Fri and Sat with a garage full of gear. And the skills to run it well.



        I'm not blind to the fact that my old world is not the world today. And still... I know that just because a good guy with a good system says one thing, that does not mean it has to be that way. He just hasn't thought of the deal you're going to propose to him yet.
        __________
        Ain't no sacrilege to call Elvis king
        Dad is great and all but he never could sing -
        Jesus

        Comment








        • Quote Originally Posted by Lee Knight
          View Post

          The way we did it was many-fold. We hired a company at times. We teamed up with a guy who got all our gigs for a better deal. And... we had a guy who would set up a full system, including kick ass subs, mids, and radial horns or lens, and I would run it from stage. In one circumstance, I would run a Rane Monitor Mixer as our monitors and as a Main Mix Out. That is how I got the audio bug and went on to study and specialize.



          But I know that as fly by night as some of these guys are, they are very open to steady work. Deals can be made. We did. In many different incarnations and permutations. A lot of very good guys are most likely sitting home Fri and Sat with a garage full of gear. And the skills to run it well.



          I'm not blind to the fact that my old world is not the world today. And still... I know that just because a good guy with a good system says one thing, that does not mean it has to be that way. He just hasn't thought of the deal you're going to propose to him yet.




          We hired out sound back during my college band days (early '80s). We were steadily working Top 40 act (typically working a 4-6 night "sit down" at a different venue each week - roughly 45 weeks a year). We worked out an arrangement with a small PA provider in the Lansing MI area. He needed some steady cash flow in between his larger gigs ... AND a mechanism for keeping his techs busy / getting new techs some experience. We were responsible for transport and schlepping (tech handled PA setup and SE duties during the gig). We were also responsible for paying the SE a share.



          It was a good arrangement at the time - we were playing large college bars (300+ seat venues). The arrangement got us a 24 channel Soundcraft board, Crown Power, real subs loaded with pro-quality JBL components, custom tops with JBL horn drives and JBL 12" speakers, etc. Most importantly - the sound techs were real SE types (not just some longhair who pretended he liked hanging out around sound toys. The gear we were using was part of a much larger system that was used around the Lansing area at the time for national acts playing smaller venues (Chick Corea, Ray Charles, B.B. King, Toots and the Maytals, The Cure, The Romantics were just some of the names I recall having used the "BIG" system). We got to use fantastic gear that most bar bands could only dream of having - complete with real pro SE types running the system.



          Although we used the gear constantly, we had zero financial interest in the gear - and zero long term commitments. For a bunch of college students with no credit - it was a good arrangement. We paid through the teeth for it ... taking a HUGE hit in terms of our own "take home" pay - but given our options, it was the best arrangement we could muster at the time.



          Now that I'm not working with anywhere near that frequency, working smaller venues - I haven't found any sound providers with whom such an arrangement would be possible today.
          The SpaceNorman

          www.facebook.com/SuperstarsOfRock
          www.souldoutrocks.com

          Keyboards and Tone Generators: Yamaha CP300, Kronos 88, Roland AX Synth, Motif ES Rack
          Keyboard Rack: Samson SM10 Line Mixer, Motu MIDIExpressXT MIDI Interface, Shure PSM200 IEM system, M-Audio Wireless MIDI, Live Wires IEM ear buds, iPad wOnSong.
          Stage Amplification: Stereo via 2 Yamaha DSR112s

          Comment


          • I've always owned gear. I hate renting much of anything since I rarely see the value in it unless it's like a once-a-year deal or something.



            In my first band while still in HS back in the 70s we had our own PA (pair of Peavey SP1s, a CS 800 and a 12 channel Peavey mixer. We thought we were the ****************! lol!) but we rented out the light show. Even though many of our shows involved travelling a pretty good distance, the guy had a killer light system for back then and travelled with us and did all the work for what was probably $100 back then? Our gig fees were in the $400-800 range playing HS dances. I can only imagine how much we must of sucked, being young kids ourselves and just learning our instruments. But we made up for it with youthful energy and a good light show. We had a fog machine! A strobe light! A mirror ball! Haha! I learned a lot back then including that the best way to learn is on the job. I have friends from that era who STILL haven't gotten out of the basement. Sad, really.



            After that it was pretty much always carrying our lights and sound because the tours got wider and the clubs rarely had much in the way of lights and sound. Pretty much ever band doing those big-rock-club circuits in the 80s were carrying their own gear and small road crew. We had 3 guys just for the lights and sound and setting up the backline.



            What I'm doing now? We'd have to rent out a system every show. That seems like much more of a hassle to me, but maybe that's just largely a function of how I've always done things.
            _________________________________________________
            Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

            Comment








            • Quote Originally Posted by guido61
              View Post

              I've always owned gear. I hate renting much of anything since I rarely see the value in it unless it's like a once-a-year deal or something.



              In my first band while still in HS back in the 70s we had our own PA (pair of Peavey SP1s, a CS 800 and a 12 channel Peavey mixer. We thought we were the ****************! lol!) but we rented out the light show. Even though many of our shows involved travelling a pretty good distance, the guy had a killer light system for back then and travelled with us and did all the work for what was probably $100 back then? Our gig fees were in the $400-800 range playing HS dances. I can only imagine how much we must of sucked, being young kids ourselves and just learning our instruments. But we made up for it with youthful energy and a good light show. We had a fog machine! A strobe light! A mirror ball! Haha! I learned a lot back then including that the best way to learn is on the job. I have friends from that era who STILL haven't gotten out of the basement. Sad, really.



              After that it was pretty much always carrying our lights and sound because the tours got wider and the clubs rarely had much in the way of lights and sound. Pretty much ever band doing those big-rock-club circuits in the 80s were carrying their own gear and small road crew. We had 3 guys just for the lights and sound and setting up the backline.



              What I'm doing now? We'd have to rent out a system every show. That seems like much more of a hassle to me, but maybe that's just largely a function of how I've always done things.




              Pretty much the same in the Northwest during the 80s. The band I was in went to Alaska for a few years we had a soundman and light tech. We Were using a Peavey 16 channel board and some Peavey and sunn PA cabs. We had about a dozen lights. We kicked ass in our first stop in Ketchikan and had our original 6 week booking ext by 3 weeks. We then went to Anchorage to play the biggest bar I have ever played. We were fired after 2 weeks because our PA couldn't cut it. I think that is the reason I'm so anal about PA now. Anyway within in a year we had bought about $25,000.00 of new PA and lighting and were able to get higher paying jobs because of it. In about a years time we went from $1800.00 and rooms a week to $4200.00 with rooms and one meal a day.

              Comment








              • Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
                View Post

                Pretty much the same in the Northwest during the 80s. The band I was in went to Alaska for a few years we had a soundman and light tech. We Were using a Peavey 16 channel board and some Peavey and sunn PA cabs. We had about a dozen lights. We kicked ass in our first stop in Ketchikan and had our original 6 week booking ext by 3 weeks. We then went to Anchorage to play the biggest bar I have ever played. We were fired after 2 weeks because our PA couldn't cut it. I think that is the reason I'm so anal about PA now. Anyway within in a year we had bought about $25,000.00 of new PA and lighting and were able to get higher paying jobs because of it. In about a years time we went from $1800.00 and rooms a week to $4200.00 with rooms and one meal a day.




                Yeah, in those days you had to have the gear to get the gigs. My 70s Peavey system never would have cut it in the 80s. Then we had a 4-way Yamaha system with 2 dual-15" subs and a 24-channel Yamaha mixer. Don't remember the amps we used. And we carried a ton of lights. LOTS of gear.



                Don't have much from those days, but here's an old postcard a club in Tempe, AZ used in 1984 with us in their pics. Can barely see the band through all the lights and fog in the bottom right pic.



                _________________________________________________
                Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

                Comment








                • Quote Originally Posted by guido61
                  View Post

                  I hate renting much of anything since I rarely see the value in it unless it's like a once-a-year deal or something.




                  I'm happy using the PA I own for everything we play except the large beer tent venues. The gear we have is fine for any of the club venues we play - and - sufficient for the wedding stuff we do (where it may not be large enough to fill the room ... but adequate to cover the dance floor well even if it doesn't fill the room to "bar standards"). However, it doesn't have the balls needed to do the beer tent venues right. Worse, the beer tent venues are a bitch to mix from stage! It's a wild assed guess at best. Let to my own devices - I'd happily hire out sound for the beer tent venues if I could get venue appropriate system and a competent sound guy for a price that didn't kill me. Unfortunately, the sound providers I've talked to have either offered me gear that didn't represent a significant improvement to what I already own ... or offered great equipment at a price that would have killed the deal.
                  The SpaceNorman

                  www.facebook.com/SuperstarsOfRock
                  www.souldoutrocks.com

                  Keyboards and Tone Generators: Yamaha CP300, Kronos 88, Roland AX Synth, Motif ES Rack
                  Keyboard Rack: Samson SM10 Line Mixer, Motu MIDIExpressXT MIDI Interface, Shure PSM200 IEM system, M-Audio Wireless MIDI, Live Wires IEM ear buds, iPad wOnSong.
                  Stage Amplification: Stereo via 2 Yamaha DSR112s

                  Comment


                  • Speaking of subs---the pair of JBL PRX 518S's have served us well but haven't really cut it in larger venues. My plan for a long time has been to look for a 2nd used pair and use 'em when we need 'em. But haven't found any. Last week we did a wedding in a big ballroom with well over 500 guests. No way our subs would have cut it. Luckily, we shared the gig with a DJ and as soon as we walked in to set up he offered to let us share his PRX 625s over 618XLFs. Damn! Those things blew the 518s out of the water. They thumped and filled that entire room with ease. So no more waiting. The 518s are up for sale and as soon as they go we're getting a pair of the 618s. Well worth the price difference. Pretty much the same footprint and for smaller gigs, we can always turn 'em down.
                    _________________________________________________
                    Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

                    Comment








                    • Quote Originally Posted by guido61
                      View Post

                      Speaking of subs---the pair of JBL PRX 518S's have served us well but haven't really cut it in larger venues. My plan for a long time has been to look for a 2nd used pair and use 'em when we need 'em. But haven't found any. Last week we did a wedding in a big ballroom with well over 500 guests. No way our subs would have cut it. Luckily, we shared the gig with a DJ and as soon as we walked in to set up he offered to let us share his PRX 625s over 618XLFs. Damn! Those things blew the 518s out of the water. They thumped and filled that entire room with ease. So no more waiting. The 518s are up for sale and as soon as they go we're getting a pair of the 618s. Well worth the price difference. Pretty much the same footprint and for smaller gigs, we can always turn 'em down.




                      If I was in the market for some new subs the 618xlfs would be my choice. I think you should save your money and practice more though.

                      Comment


                      • People don't consider it renting gear around here. It's simply just getting sound for the night. We have an insane amount of talented engineers in our area and they all have giant systems that they'll roll out for a fair price which is normally around $200-$250. The following pics are standard anytime you work with any of the guys around here. They all run FOH or monitor mixes for all the stuff that comes through here too. Buffalo is a great place to be a musician. These companies will lug this stuff out and have as much or more pride in what they do as what we do. No..not briefcase sound or speakers on a stick. Grant will tell ya- I'm sure he remembers.



                        For my buds 4 piece band at a local patio bar...





                        Right around the corner from my house





                        One of the best sound guys around...

                        Comment








                        • Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
                          View Post

                          If I was in the market for some new subs the 618xlfs would be my choice. I think you should save your money and practice more though.




                          Uh-hee-unk
                          __________
                          Ain't no sacrilege to call Elvis king
                          Dad is great and all but he never could sing -
                          Jesus

                          Comment


                          • After reevaluating, i think for a lot of bands the answer is draw.

                            Depends on your band though
                            I teach Guitar through skype. I'm affordable. Check it out here. http://jesses-skype-guitar-lessons.weebly.com/

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                            • Here's my newest upgrade....



                              8 -Blizzard 3NX

                              4 - Intimidator 1.0

                              6 - Pinspot 360's

                              4 - Blizzard Fab5's to light the band

                              DMXIS



                              It's maiden flight is NYE.



                              After that it will be added into my soundguy services for a price.







                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8LdfCV6cPQ



                              Oh yeah, learned Go Your Own Way last night. Practice tomorrow to nail down the harmonies, & some last minute work before NYE.
                              PA Unity15's over LS800p's. YX15's, YX12's IPR power, RM32AI

                              LightsMartin Minimac Profiles, Chauvet Intimidator Spot Duos, Blizzard 3NX, Fab5, Hotbox

                              Comment








                              • Quote Originally Posted by SpaceNorman
                                View Post

                                I find that pulling a song back into rehearsal is usually a judgement call that needs to distinquish whether the issue is with an individual is struggling with their part individually (because they haven't invested the personal practice to play the troubled passage consistently) - or truly one that requires rework. I'm good with pulling tunes back if it truly requires rework ... but prefer to put the bug up the ass of whoever needs to get their stuff straight to fix it. I absolutely HATE it when an anal bandmate insists we waste EVERYBODY's time revisiting a tune simply because one person on stage had a rough go at it at the last gig. Differentiating between a clam thrown during somebody's rough night - and a real problem with how the band has structured a tune requires wisdom - and that is often something that can sometime be in short supply.




                                That's a great point.



                                Mistakes happen.



                                But bad habits: making the same mistakes....that should be recognized and dealt with by either getting it locked down tight in rehearsal or dropping the tune.
                                Kickin' it in the sticks...

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