Members Vito Corleone Posted October 6, 2014 Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 This weekend my band tried out using individual mixing stations for our IEM system. This meant that everyone used either an iPad or an iPhone on a clip on either a separate stand or clipped to their mic stand. Most are also using the same device for setlists and lyrics. Definitely a much cleaner look than sheets of paper strewn across the stage and duct-taped to the backs of speakers and such. But the flip side is now everyone has a dreaded "music stand" on stage. Everyone loved being able to do their own mix. (Plus, for whatever reason, the sound was much cleaner coming straight out of the Behringer Rack32 than running through our Allen & Heath MixWiz monitor board.) And dumping the big monitor mixer on stage will clean up that part of the look. So we're not going back on this. And the thought is that since phones and tablets are so much more "techy" that we won't look like a bunch of old guys staring into music stands on stage? Hope not anyway. My biggest worry is that it will become too easy for the girls to become dependent on reading their lyrics instead of memorizing them now. How many others here are cluttering up their space with phones and tablets these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Fart Rocker Posted October 6, 2014 Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 I think the ipad/iphone on a stand is going to become the norm. Almost every band I see has them now. Our singers use them and we haven't gone to IEM yet. We are ready to spend the $ on a new digital mixer and, like your band, are looking forward to everyone creating their own mix. I really don't mind the ipad on a stand. It's not nearly as offensive as an actual music stand with a binder or loose sheets of lyrics falling all over the place. Plus, the ipads serve multiple functions.I would still insist on the singers memorizing the lyrics. There is no way to sing, reading lyrics and engaging the crowd at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted October 6, 2014 Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 Been using an iPad on stage for close to 3 years now. While we're playing, it's running OnSong - and for all intents and purposes, replaces a paper setlist (with the added benefit that it displays whatever "crib" notes I might have made regarding the song (starting notes for vocal harmonies, lyric "first lines", keyboard patch locations, etc.) It's positioned such that it's in my "line of sight" so I'm never staring at the iPad. I always do my homework and create a "set" prior to going on stage - so moving from song to song requires that I simply tap the upper right quadrant of the screen To the casual observer - the motion required to "flip pages" on the iPad looks like I'm touching the control panel on my keyboard. When we're on break - the iPad is our source for recorded music. I've got it loaded with lots of break material - from a wide variety of genres. It also contains an electronic copy of the owners manual for every piece of gear in my keyboard rig and PA - so it's available for ready reference if it's needed. It's got the band's calendar on it - so I can intelligently talk business when necessary. If there's an available Wi-Fi connection - I can easily send a prospective client our "canned" introduction email complete with links to our web site, demo materials on YouTube and other sites - literally as I'm talking to them. With our recent move to a Presonus digital board - I'm now using it to control the monitor mix I receive from the board as well. It's powerful, it's versatile and it's discrete. I'd never let a concern that it may become a distracting crutch keep me from continuing to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 I would still insist on the singers memorizing the lyrics. There is no way to sing, reading lyrics and engaging the crowd at the same time. Well, what I insist upon and what I get in return are often two different things. But I agree 100%. The problem with reading lyrics is it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of never memorizing them. At least when they are reading lyrics on sheets lying on the floor, they are more compelled to memorize them. I'm worried that having them at eye level will cause some problems. But we'll see. I'm optimistic. But I agree that people are used to seeing musicians and others using tablets and it doesn't give off the same impression as a music stand at all. As long as they don't impede the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted October 6, 2014 Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 As long as you're not wearing iShorts or an iHawiian shirt, too. I was actually thinking about doing an iPad and sending it to an AppleTV built into a wedge or two with a full sized monitor in it. That way you could have a reminder without squinting into an iPad on your mic stand. And believe me, I'd be squinting these days! I figure if the guy who wrote and recorded the damn song can't be bothered to memorize his own lyrics or the name of city he's in that night, why should I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 To the casual observer - the motion required to "flip pages" on the iPad looks like I'm touching the control panel on my keyboard. True, all this. But I've never really been concerned with the look of an iPad (or even a music stand much) for keyboard players or drummers. So much easier for them to integrate the look into their setup and be discreet about it. Thinking more about the front line singers and guitarists where the device and the stand are so much more obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 Actually...what I'd like to do --- if there's not an app for this yet someone needs to develop one --- is since we all have a screen in front of us now is be able to 'call out' songs using it. If I had a songlist on my iPad in front of me and if by touching the song title was able to send an alert to the other devices on stage that this was going to be the next song to play.....now THAT would be an app worth downloading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted October 6, 2014 Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 I don't know. They still look distracting to me. Personally I would keep the iPhone in my pocket. I use an iPad mini to mix a band, but never on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 Personally I would keep the iPhone in my pocket. Hmmmm......well, I think that would kind of take away the advantage of having a personal monitor mixer. I could walk across the stage and adjust my mix on a console easier than fishing for my phone in my pocket. Plus I would think that watching some guy pull a phone out of his pocket and looking like he's checking his email would be at least as distracting as one on a stand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted October 6, 2014 Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 Actually...what I'd like to do --- if there's not an app for this yet someone needs to develop one --- is since we all have a screen in front of us now is be able to 'call out' songs using it. If I had a songlist on my iPad in front of me and if by touching the song title was able to send an alert to the other devices on stage that this was going to be the next song to play.....now THAT would be an app worth downloading! OnSong has features that will allow one iPad to control what is displayed on other nearby iPads. I suspect the features you're looking for are under the "Share" icon - and include Connect (Connect to other OnSong Devices), Beam ("Share this set wierelessly with your band") and Start OnCue (Control this set for your entire band). There's also a "chat" feature that allows you to create custom messages appear momentarily on the screen (the screen turns color (very opaque) and scrolls your message past ...). I've never worked with these features myself - so I'm not familiar with the step by step details - however, just looking at what screens I'm presented with on my iPad when I call up some of these sharing features - it looks pretty robust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 We all use OnSong, so I'll have to look into that. But wouldn't there be an issue with the fact that we're all connected to the same WiFi network but with separate IP addresses so as to facilitate the individual monitor mixes? Not sure that being able to be connected that way AND be able to talk to each other at the same time would be possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted October 7, 2014 Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 ...wouldn't there be an issue with the fact that we're all connected to the same WiFi network but with separate IP addresses so as to facilitate the individual monitor mixes? Not sure that being able to be connected that way AND be able to talk to each other at the same time would be possible? I think that OnSong uses Bluetooth for "OnSong to OnSong" connectivity (i.e., between iPads/iPhones) so I don't think that would be an issue (I use Wi-Fi and Bluetooth concurrently with other applications so I know they're not mutually exclusive technologies). Try a YouTube search on OnSong - there are numerous OnSong tutorial videos out there - including at least one that address Bluetooth connectivity. Here's a link to a tutorial on OnSong Messages ( ). Here's another one about "Sharing" OnSong sets/songs ( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 Thanks for the info and links! I didn't know you could use Bluetooth and Wifi concurrently. That'd be way cool to figure out a way to do that. One of the hassles of IEMs is it makes calling out songs a pain in the arse. Nobody can hear me; my bandmates are horrible lip readers; and the one guy who refuses to use IEMs is deaf as a post anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted October 7, 2014 Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 I keep going back and forth on this. We're back starting Nov. 1, and I can get a nice PreSonus board for really cheap (they are clients of mine, so I get a big discount). That would put us in the position to do the IEMs with the iPad/iPhone app. But on the flip side, we're booked through March and don't have a single gig where we need to bring any PA equipment, so, the practical side of me is thinking to just save the money for now. However, if we do start doing more private functions, we'll probably go that route, though I don't think I'll want people to have iPads out front like music stands. It's easy enough to keep them off to the side where they are easy to access, but still not obvious from the crowd. I HATE when I see people going to their iPad between every song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted October 7, 2014 Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 ..One of the hassles of IEMs is it makes calling out songs a pain in the arse. Nobody can hear me; my bandmates are horrible lip readers; and the one guy who refuses to use IEMs is deaf as a post anyway. I've found that the most effective way to communicate with me when I'm wearing IEMs is to first make eye contact with me - then whisper into your vocal mic. When you know it's there - you can hear even the faintest whisper ... and if done right, the typical one or two word song name codes we use end up being two whispered words that get lost in the rest of the ambient noise of the room such that it's imperceptible / indiscernible to the folks out front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted October 7, 2014 Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 Most bands I see with IEMs have a bandleader with 2 mics. One for singing, one for calling out songs, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 I've found that the most effective way to communicate with me when I'm wearing IEMs is to first make eye contact with me - Yeah, well that's where the whole plan will fall apart. I literally have to kick some people in the ass in order to get them to turn around and look at me on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 I keep going back and forth on this. We're back starting Nov. 1, and I can get a nice PreSonus board for really cheap (they are clients of mine, so I get a big discount). That would put us in the position to do the IEMs with the iPad/iPhone app. But on the flip side, we're booked through March and don't have a single gig where we need to bring any PA equipment, so, the practical side of me is thinking to just save the money for now. I hear you. I'm in a bit of the same boat here. Our regular soundman brings his own mixer and we're using that to drive the separate iPad mixes. In order to be able to do that on the gigs he doesn't do for us, we'll have to buy a similar system. But that's only maybe 20% of our gigs. Pretty sure we'll hate going back to the old way of doing it the first time he can't do a gig for us, but it's only a few gigs a year. So maybe it's not worth spending all the money for just a few gigs a year. The other side of that is we can sell off our own system and pay for at least 75% of the new one. But on the third hand....the gigs he can't do are usually situations where we're left sort of scrambling to find somebody available to do the gig for us. And we'd be limiting ourselves further by only being able to use guys comfortable with mixing from an iPad. It never ends, does it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Opus Antics Posted October 7, 2014 Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 How many others here are cluttering up their space with phones and tablets these days? I think they are becoming the norm. I used to print out my set list on three pages (one page per set) and keep it on the floor near my pedalboard. Now I use my iPad and Set List Maker and no more paper. It's glorious. I can manage time better, remember songs that I didn't put into the set when we need to make adjustments to match the crowd. there's a lot of other functionality I haven't even tapped into yet, and it is so much better than pieces of paper on the floor with me gazing at my feet to see what's next. I use a clip so that it attaches right onto the mic stand. No extra music stand. Bassist does the same thing. Singer uses a separate stand so there is one member with that mic stand, but she often moves it off to the side out of the way. With digital mixing more people are using their iPad for PA management, which is what I'm currently doing. So my iPad triples as my set list manager, my PA board control, IEM mixing center and then I use it to play songs during set breaks. The thing that makes it better than the old music stand is that they are less conspicuous. And if you clip it to a mic stand it's almost un-noticeable unless you're looking for it. People will still notice if you are staring at it for chord changes and words, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Opus Antics Posted October 7, 2014 Members Share Posted October 7, 2014 Actually...what I'd like to do --- if there's not an app for this yet someone needs to develop one --- is since we all have a screen in front of us now is be able to 'call out' songs using it. If I had a songlist on my iPad in front of me and if by touching the song title was able to send an alert to the other devices on stage that this was going to be the next song to play.....now THAT would be an app worth downloading! Set List Maker lets you do this. If everyone gets it you can have a master which controls the others. When you flip to a song they all do so everyone can see what song you moved to. I haven't tried it yet because I haven't been able to get anyone else to spend the $10 or whatever it is to get the app. But it has the functionality you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted October 24, 2014 Members Share Posted October 24, 2014 OnSong's connectivity portion of the app, will disconnect if you swap active apps to adjust your monitor mix. Then you need to reconnect. It's awkward unless you never leave OnSong. This problem doesn't occur if you're using it only as a personal reference. On the other hand, when running a master/slave OnSong setup, you only need the charts on the Master and it will distribute them on the fly quite quickly. (Not sure having a stopwatch would help me tell you how fast. Seems close to instantaneous.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 24, 2014 Members Share Posted October 24, 2014 Add video monitors to the rigging or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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