Members lovegun Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 Hello, I am currently putting together a new band. I want to use the sound company that my former band used. Everything was great with this sound co. except we felt like the low end was missing especially on the kick drum. The sound guy stated that he can only reproduce what is sent to him via the kick mic. We want low end kick like you would hear on a modern rock recording or at a modern rock concert. Ive done some recording at home at with my experience, I have to add the sub bass to the kick to get this modern sound. EQ alone will not do it. So my question is, is there any hardware that will add sub bass frequencies to the kick that can be used live? Or any other tricks we can try? I dont know what the specifics are on this sound co's equipment. But I can tell you that when you play CD's through it, the bass is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 Begin by tuning the kick. If that doesn't work, next step... tune the kick! After that, a decent mic and a PA with a sub is all that is nessessary (other than tuning the kick! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 Originally Posted by lovegun Hello,I am currently putting together a new band. I want to use the sound company that my former band used. Everything was great with this sound co. except we felt like the low end was missing especially on the kick drum. The sound guy stated that he can only reproduce what is sent to him via the kick mic. We want low end kick like you would hear on a modern rock recording or at a modern rock concert. Ive done some recording at home at with my experience, I have to add the sub bass to the kick to get this modern sound. EQ alone will not do it. So my question is, is there any hardware that will add sub bass frequencies to the kick that can be used live? Or any other tricks we can try? I dont know what the specifics are on this sound co's equipment. But I can tell you that when you play CD's through it, the bass is there. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwBw&dur=560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 Originally Posted by lovegun Hello,I am currently putting together a new band. I want to use the sound company that my former band used. Everything was great with this sound co. except we felt like the low end was missing especially on the kick drum. The sound guy stated that he can only reproduce what is sent to him via the kick mic. We want low end kick like you would hear on a modern rock recording or at a modern rock concert. Ive done some recording at home at with my experience, I have to add the sub bass to the kick to get this modern sound. EQ alone will not do it. So my question is, is there any hardware that will add sub bass frequencies to the kick that can be used live? Or any other tricks we can try? I dont know what the specifics are on this sound co's equipment. But I can tell you that when you play CD's through it, the bass is there. What's the bass drum mic your using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 It would help to know what he was using. You should be able to get plenty of thump out of a kick drum with a good PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 Is your sound guy named Wyn? Just asking. Any decent PA with subs should be able to get what you want. The question then becomes "is there enough rig for the gig?" Low end is one of the most difficult things to get right because the demands on speakers and AC power are high. If you don't have enough gear, or enough current to run the gear, low end won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 Originally Posted by lovegun ...Ive done some recording at home at with my experience, I have to add the sub bass to the kick to get this modern sound. EQ alone will not do it... This comment is why I am suggesting that the OP start by looking at the kick drum, not the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 ^ I completely agree with you. You can't amplify what isn't there. Didn't mean to imply those posts above were wrong. The FIRST thing to look at is the drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 To actually add "sub" bass you'll need to gate an oscillator using the kick drum as a trigger. You can probably get the effect you want with a peak/dip EQ (as opposed to a shelving eq which is typical on a mixer) and a compressor much more easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lovegun Posted December 10, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 The mic is a Shure Beta 52A. The only reason I think the PA is sufficient is because when we play CD's through it, the bass sounds great. We will definitely try tuning the kick. Our sound guy did suggest that to our drummer from my last band. The drummer argued about it. This will definitely be the cheapest route. Hopefully the new drummer is not as stubborn and at least give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 Do you by chance know the make of the drum kit and the head being used? Also have you adjusted the location of the mic in the bass drum itself to see if that helps? Bob's the man. Bass drums can be tricky to tune due not being able to hear the tones as well as smaller drums but nice video on tuning that bass drum. Hear those are good mic's for the application that you are usingI once had a D112 that went funky on me and no matter what could not get it to sound good, swapped with another one found out had a bad D112 that "worked" but didn't produce desired results and was the source of the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaBender Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 By any chance, do you have the high pass filter (also possibly known as lo cut) engaged on the kick drum channel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 What's the pa consist of??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted December 10, 2012 Members Share Posted December 10, 2012 Originally Posted by lovegun We want low end kick like you would hear on a modern rock recording or at a modern rock concert. These are not the same thing. There is MUCH MUCH less low end enhancement on a recording than what's typically done at concerts. Ive done some recording at home at with my experience, I have to add the sub bass to the kick to get this modern sound. EQ alone will not do it. That's not correct. In fact, when listening to a recording, excessive low-end on the kick is a big indicator that the mix engineer was an amateur. What you are hearing on recordings is most likely a combination of excellent tuning, playing, and recording, along with (depending on the genre) a lot of compression. Our sound guy did suggest that to our drummer from my last band. The drummer argued about it. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted December 11, 2012 Members Share Posted December 11, 2012 You want a modern rock kick sound then ditch the beta 52 and get a D6. BUT, if the drummer can't be bothered to actually tune his drums your {censored}ed before you even get started. If I had a drummer like that..... well I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted December 11, 2012 Members Share Posted December 11, 2012 You say a cd sounds good, bet it does. Cd sounds good on my home hi fi but will not handle a bass drum, or any live music for that matter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 How much low end do you need? Usually a sharp boost at 50Hz is plenty for fattening up a "modern" kind of kick sound. If you're after something a little more extreme, maybe try triggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madjack Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 You could always use a trigger and a sampled kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 IMO what is perceived as lack of low end kick is actually boost below the tuning of the kick (~70-90Hz) eating up all your sub power and not enough output in the first octave of the kick (70-180Hz) which is where the chest thump is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lovegun Posted December 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Triggers may be a good option for us. It would seem that would take a lot of the variables out of the equation. What would be a good trigger and module set up? Do they make something just for kick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madjack Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Check out this forum thread for some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Well dude, if you can't get the kick to sound good the rest of the kit is gonna sound like carp too. If you're looking to play paying gigs you might want to look into an eKit. I'm pretty happy with my Alesis DM8 Pro - it allows us to rehearse at volumes where we don't need to mic the backup vocals and we'll be able to gig places where an acoustic kit is too loud assuming we ever get out of the basement . Also helps to have a PA that doesn't "look" loud . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by RoadRanger ...the rest of the kit is gonna sound like carp too.. If you use a D112, it can sound like flounder instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 There you go, hatin' on the DL112 again. Funny thing is the one "A" listish drummer I often work with has one built into his kick and I've never had a problem getting a good sound out of one. You do have to high pass them bit and get them in towards the beater head - sitting them right at the port gives you all "woosh" and no "thump" IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 If you can't at least use one, something else is wrong. I don't hate them, I just don't prefer them. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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