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  • Thanks again for the visual Mediterranean. I'm still mulling this over. I like the space conservation of the 73, it actually ends up being 3 inches less than my Studiologic VMK 188, which is 52 inches versus the 49-ish of the Kronos 73 key. The 88 key ends up being a little over 5 inches longer and an inch deeper than my VMK 188.

    My only beef with the 73 key is the sort of odd cut of the 73. It chops off 7 notes on the lower register and 8 notes of the upper register. I really wish they'd just chopped off 15 notes off the upper register and left the lower range intact as it would be on an 88 key piano. I certainly use the bottom octave more than I use the top octave..... and I don't think I'm alone in that ...... couple that fact with the key's I generally play in (B minor, some modal version of that, and D minor and a modal version of that), it's kind of weird for the 73 to cut E1 to E7.

    I might be nitpicking though. I have to play through some of my piano based songs and see if it would be an issue.


    Why do people always assume the tonic will be the lowest note? The lowest note is just as likely to be the dominant (in B minor this would be F#), or it could just be some other note. In any case, if it bothers you, you can just transpose the entire keyboard down an octave.

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    • Why do people always assume the tonic will be the lowest note? The lowest note is just as likely to be the dominant (in B minor this would be F#), or it could just be some other note. In any case, if it bothers you, you can just transpose the entire keyboard down an octave.


      Honestly, you're right. I just tried out some more songs I wrote on my actual piano, and honestly I'm just nitpicking. I think the size/weight/space concerns are more relevant than having the keys exactly represented as they are on my piano. I'm not a "full piano spanning player" very often, I usually play very understated stuff. Nothing too acrobatic, that's for sure. It'll just be nice to have a weighted piano and not have to play Acoustic Piano from NI with my synth action Virus TI as a controller.
      Formerly known as sausagefoot.

      Comment


      • Honestly, you're right. I just tried out some more songs I wrote on my actual piano, and honestly I'm just nitpicking. I think the size/weight/space concerns are more relevant than having the keys exactly represented as they are on my piano. I'm not a "full piano spanning player" very often, I usually play very understated stuff.


        The fundamental frequencies of the lowest register of the piano are actually below the audible range, what you're hearing are all the overtones. Very few people really do use the full span of the piano. In classical music the very highest and very lowest notes are pretty much untouched except for some modern scores (they have a note with a triangle head pointing up or down which means 'play the higest/lowest notes' because it would be a pain to count all those ledger lines.)

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        • The fundamental frequencies of the lowest register of the piano are actually below the audible range, what you're hearing are all the overtones. Very few people really do use the full span of the piano. In classical music the very highest and very lowest notes are pretty much untouched except for some modern scores (they have a note with a triangle head pointing up or down which means 'play the higest/lowest notes' because it would be a pain to count all those ledger lines.)


          I remember reading something like that, as well. IIRC, the main reason why we have 88-key pianos isn't because those bottom-most keys are actually used on a regular basis, but because their strings contribute sympathetic resonance to the more commonly-used keys, and thus help provide a richer sound.

          Keys and Pads: Arturia Analog Laboratory 49, Arturia Spark, Korg Kronos 61, Korg nanoPad 2
          Strings: Carvin Bolt HSS w/ Wilkinson vibrato
          DAWs: FL Studio 10, Sonar X2 Producer
          Plugs: Arturia V Collection 3, Crypton Vocaloid 2 Megurine Luka, Korg Legacy Collection, Madrona Labs Aalto, NI Guitar Rig 5, Toontrack Superior Drummer 2.0

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          • Nothing beats the low notes of a real Wurli
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            • On the 73 and 88, I wish they hadn't centered the controls. If they had pushed them all to one side or the other, there would be enough contiguous free space to sit an additional device of some sort of you wanted to.


              The 88 dimensions (width/length) are similar to my Rd700GX1. With some jerry-rigging, I attached my M3M to open left side top of the RD.
              ( I had Tap plastics make a clear shelf, to place between the RD & M3M. This added support and more real estate).

              It wasn't aesthetically pleasing but it was functional.

              So, I think there is potential to put a device on the Kronos.
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              • The fundamental frequencies of the lowest register of the piano are actually below the audible range, what you're hearing are all the overtones. Very few people really do use the full span of the piano. In classical music the very highest and very lowest notes are pretty much untouched except for some modern scores (they have a note with a triangle head pointing up or down which means 'play the higest/lowest notes' because it would be a pain to count all those ledger lines.)



                I suppose you don't practice scales & arpeggios on 88 keys. Or create zones/splits on your midi keyboard.
                I live a life of fearless self invention

                If you want to see God laugh, don't make any plans

                Good is the Enemy of Great

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                • In classical music the very highest and very lowest notes are pretty much untouched except for some modern scores (they have a note with a triangle head pointing up or down which means 'play the higest/lowest notes' because it would be a pain to count all those ledger lines.)


                  Here's a man who never heard about "8va" "8vb" and "15ma" and "15mb".




                  Seriously, there's quite a number of classical scores which use the entire span of piano.
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                  • Christian Rock wrote:
                    Well it just seems like the Kronos dedicated drum track will do everything I want a drum sequencer to do, plus it's already integrated with the sequencer and all the 9 engines.


                    Not sure what you mean. I believe the drum track function will be like the implementation on the M3, which leaves a lot to be desired. I use it and appreciate it being there, but I wish they'd done a fuller implementation.

                    At least on the M3, the drum track is simply a way to play back one of 700 drum patterns. There's no KARMA or arpeggiator style controls associated with them, so for the most part you simply get the playback of the pattern with no controls to alter swing or other change-it-up-in-realtime controls. You can get that kind of control by doing drums within KARMA, but that's not as straightforward obviously as the drum track function.

                    It is nice having a separate button for the drum track: in Combi mode, there may already be rhythm generated by KARMA, and then you can spice it up a bit more by turning the track on.

                    Comment


                    • Well, if it doesn't work for me and I have to do the drums in the MIDI sequencer, I'm back to where I am right now. Anything the drum track brings me, will be an improvement.

                      I'm not going from a computer DAW to a Kronos for the sequencer. I've never had a computer DAW. I'll be replacing older hardware that I am pretty sure will not be as flexible as what I'm getting.
                      http://www.reverbnation.com/christianschulze

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                      • Yep, I'm definitely getting one as soon as I can reasonably afford one.

                        These are exciting times for technology- that Korg is ABLE to make this keyboard at an affordable price has a lot to do with things like SSDs, processors, memory, etc etc., becoming orders of magnitude faster/cheaper. No doubt we will see other SuperBoards like this in the next few years. But I doubt anyone is going to do it better (at least for the next coupla years).

                        Korg really has a head start 'cause of the Oayses, and in my book they've got it all now: reasonable price / user friendly interface with a big screen / awesome sound quality / reasonable weight / audio recording (and not just in track sampling) / built-in audio interface to computer / seemless sound transitions / set list / etc.

                        I love my M3, but I have to admit it's wasted a lot of my time because the sound quality is just not there compared to modeled/cloned/virtual engines- I have to painstakingly go through all the sounds to find the few gems. Based on the demos I've heard of Oayses sounds, and knowing it'll have the same DAC chip, etc., this guy'll blow everything else out of the water (at least workstation wise).

                        I really wonder about the people who are so complacent about this release- they must have very different needs/desires. As far as I'm concerned, it IS a big deal, esp. for users like me that don't want a lot of boards, 2 will do me, thank you very much.

                        I'll prob get the 61 note: 27 pounds!!! I already have a Nord Stage 88, which to my mind is a perfect complement for me to something like the Kronos: I'll be tempted to tweak and noodle endlessly on the Kronos, whereas with the Stage I just play/practice music.

                        I'm also disappointed with the layout of the 73 keys. I'm in the camp with those that want the extra keys on the lower end of the keybed. And having used pitch/mod on the front panel, like the Stage, I'm also for putting those on top- 88 notes are already super long, and having them on top is very ergonomic IME.

                        My only real reservation with the Kronos is the lack of drum pads- I know they've got the virtual ones, but that means having a separate screen up. I like the immediacy and triggering capabilities of the pads, from drum sounds to RPPR to the many excellent chords that are pre-mapped to the pads.

                        The other thing that surprises me is having only 1 controller pedal input. With all the controllers/effects/etc. that this board is capable of, a 2d pedal input would be very welcome. I like using the controller input for overall volume, and the second one for controllers. Oh well.

                        Oh well- I am amazed at how much they've included at this price point, and I'm happy in a gotcha kinda way that they'll put the Yamaha XS/XF to shame: talk about a waste of time dealing with an interface designed by engineers! The M3 feels like it was designed by musicians- and as much as everyone claims the XS has the best sounds, esp. acoustic, I disagree. In the two years I had the XS7 I was not as inspired as I have been with my M3. And that Yamaha has been re-hashing rompler static sound for so long is a major disappointment. This'll up their game!

                        Comment


                        • Thanks again for the visual Mediterranean. I'm still mulling this over. I like the space conservation of the 73, it actually ends up being 3 inches less than my Studiologic VMK 188, which is 52 inches versus the 49-ish of the Kronos 73 key. The 88 key ends up being a little over 5 inches longer and an inch deeper than my VMK 188.

                          My only beef with the 73 key is the sort of odd cut of the 73. It chops off 7 notes on the lower register and 8 notes of the upper register. I really wish they'd just chopped off 15 notes off the upper register and left the lower range intact as it would be on an 88 key piano. I certainly use the bottom octave more than I use the top octave..... and I don't think I'm alone in that ...... couple that fact with the key's I generally play in (B minor, some modal version of that, and D minor and a modal version of that), it's kind of weird for the 73 to cut E1 to E7.

                          I might be nitpicking though. I have to play through some of my piano based songs and see if it would be an issue.


                          You're welcome Sausagefoot [sorry, just saw your post].

                          It will more likely be an issue with the 73 than it ever will with the 88.

                          Another important advantage in getting the 88 that I forgot to mention [well, it would be important to me if I had children]:

                          With the Kronos being such a flagship instrument in practically every regard compared to other keyboards, buyers will probably keep it for a long time, if not forever. And if you have have kids that you wish to teach piano to [and you should], nothing beats the 88, not even the 73 despite its piano-action keys. It will practically be like playing the real thing. The only difference is a Steinway costs $100,000.00. You can even open and close the lid on the Kronos, remember? lol.



                          There's also another major advantage in getting the 88, and this is solely musical, which after all, is what it's all about:

                          Look at this chart. It represents the musical range of some major acoustic instruments whose note range is spread across an 88-note keyboard. This is specifically to help musicians who compose orchestral music to know the realistic range of those instruments and which notes should not be used so that the music sounds as realistic as possible. As you can see, an 88-note keyboard covers all of the instruments, unlike the 73, and even worse, the 61. Sure, not everybody does orchestral work and will need this, but wouldn't be great to just be able to in a moment's notice when/if the time comes? Plus, there are those [many of them] who compose synth-based music combined with orchestral sounds [example: timpani]



                          I understand the convenience of having a transpose feature on a keyboard and I personally would like to have it even on an 88-note machine [doing crazy-sounding things sometimes], but at the same time, I would hate to have to transpose here and there everytime I need to when I can simply have an 88-note keyboard and never worry about the things that sometimes hinder my musical workflow. A good example of the occurrence of this inconvenience is when doing piano work on a 61-note keyboard, or even a 76.

                          Lastly: finger strength.

                          Example 1: there's a show coming up and you're going to play non-piano-based music. Practice on a 88-note hammer-action keyboard at home before the show... on a 61. Your fingers will fly!

                          Example 2: finger strength period. We keyboardists need it regardless of whether it's 61, 73, 76, or 88
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                          • Shoemakers wear the worst shoes.
                            You left your ISO on Auto. That's a no-no.
                            Click here to search HC forums.
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                            • I'll get a Kronos if my Korg M3 somehow gets totaled or stolen.

                              The M3's sound quality is ok for me. The M3 does take up a lot of time for me too, but it's because I've been learning how to use the KARMA features, rather than searching for sounds. The most time I spent searching for sounds was for a particular organ sound to match a songwriting friend's very particular tastes.

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                              • Another important advantage in getting the 88...


                                On the other hand, if you're getting the Kronos primarily for the CX-3 engine (), then going with the 88 means not being able to adjust the drawbars on the same manual that you use to play organ parts (assuming a MIDI'd semi-weighted or waterfall controller). And if you don't have a second board, then you have to play organ on a hammer action.

                                Given that piano needs less in the way of expression controllers mounted on the board itself, it seems that the more expedient solution in that case would be to go with a Kronos-61 and MIDI an 88-key controller for those times when piano is called for. And depending on what controller you get, this setup could end up being ~$100-200 USD cheaper than the cost of the Kronos-88.

                                Keys and Pads: Arturia Analog Laboratory 49, Arturia Spark, Korg Kronos 61, Korg nanoPad 2
                                Strings: Carvin Bolt HSS w/ Wilkinson vibrato
                                DAWs: FL Studio 10, Sonar X2 Producer
                                Plugs: Arturia V Collection 3, Crypton Vocaloid 2 Megurine Luka, Korg Legacy Collection, Madrona Labs Aalto, NI Guitar Rig 5, Toontrack Superior Drummer 2.0

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