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HELP - Affordable solution to recording a Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 "direct" needed

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  • HELP - Affordable solution to recording a Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 "direct" needed

    I need help choosing the most affordable solution to recording through my Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 direct. My band rehearses at my house and when we record we do it in a "live" format. I am tired of moving my rig into the other room (so the sound doesn't bleed into the drum mics). I want to lay these "scratch" tracks direct until the rhythm section tracks are complete. I will then re-track my final tracks mic'ed up.

    The DSL doesn't have a direct out or emulated speaker out, like some other amps so I have been looking at emulator pedals that mimic the speaker "load". For instance:

    F.A.N.T.A. Speaker Emulator
    http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/accessories/M-FANTA

    It sounds like a good product but my main concern is if the signal from the speaker is cut off while the emulator is hooked up. The pedal has inputs for:
    "From Amp" 1/4"
    "To Speaker" 1/4"
    "Signal Out" XLR

    At less than $100 it seems like a great option, but I would love to hear from anyone who has more experience at this, or has a better solution, than me.

  • #2
    Honestly if you're using them for scratch tracks a pod, or similar, would be my choice. Or I just picked up a sansamp character series British pedal. That thing sounds great direct. It's what I now use at church instead of an amp.
    ∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆ Metric Halo 2882 Expanded +DSP, Event 20/20 bas, Etymotic ER4-PT and HF3, MacBook Pro 15" (early 2011 w/2.2 ghz i7 quad, 8GB Ram, 480 GB SSD), Pro Tools 11, Harrison Mixbus, and Reaper. Godin Progression, Godin LGSP-90 (NAMM ed.), Godin LGX-SA into an 11 Rack controlled by a FCB1010 with an Eureka Prom. A bunch of other stuff lying around.

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    • #3
      I was reading about the British Character prior to my post. Sansamp also has the GT2, although about $100 more. Any thoughts on the FANTA or something similar?

      Comment


      • #4
        You could use an amp sim like a pod or Sansamp for the scratch tracks, but split the signal and also record a unprocessed track through a DI at the same time.

        The advantage of this technique is that you can retain the vibe of tracking live with the band by reamping the DI guitar track through your Marshall later. You do need a couple of spare inputs and a reamp box and DI to pull it off, though.

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        • #5
          Do any of the LiveWire products act as a speaker load emulator?

          Comment


          • #6
            I need help choosing the most affordable solution to recording through my Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 direct. My band rehearses at my house and when we record we do it in a "live" format. I am tired of moving my rig into the other room (so the sound doesn't bleed into the drum mics). I want to lay these "scratch" tracks direct until the rhythm section tracks are complete. I will then re-track my final tracks mic'ed up.

            The DSL doesn't have a direct out or emulated speaker out, like some other amps so I have been looking at emulator pedals that mimic the speaker "load". For instance:

            F.A.N.T.A. Speaker Emulator
            http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/accessories/M-FANTA

            It sounds like a good product but my main concern is if the signal from the speaker is cut off while the emulator is hooked up. The pedal has inputs for:
            "From Amp" 1/4"
            "To Speaker" 1/4"
            "Signal Out" XLR

            At less than $100 it seems like a great option, but I would love to hear from anyone who has more experience at this, or has a better solution, than me.


            Unfortunately, the FANTA is an inline device and it is connected between the amp and speaker - just like the old Hughes & Kettner Red Box. If you try running it without a load (speaker) connected, you'll fry the amp. It's intended to emulate a speaker's sound, but the connection method prevents it from being a "silent" solution. They're great for reducing the mic count on stage though. But in order to use one, you either have to have your speaker cabinet connected to it, or a dummy load. If you use a dummy load, it has to be of the correct impedance (8 or 16 ohm) and able to handle more than enough wattage... and 100W dummy speaker loads are not all that common.

            In my humble opinion, the best option would be to use something like a POD or other amp sim (hardware or software) when tracking with the band, then switch over to the Marshall for the overdubs. You could also re-track your main rhythm parts with it too - replacing what you did with the POD. Hang on to the POD track though - you may need it for timing references when overdubbing and editing... plus, you may find you like using it occasionally as another sonic layer in the mix.
            **********

            "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

            - George Carlin

            "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

            - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

            "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

            - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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            • #7
              Thanks Phil. If you know of any dummy load devices, please share.

              I gotta believe there is an affordable product out there. If not, there should be. I've emailed LiveWire and I will continue to scour the web...I'll post my findings, if any.

              Comment


              • #8
                I've never seen an inexpensive silent dummy load with cab simulated recording output. Palmer's cheapest model (which will indeed handle a 100 watt amp) is $680. Hoping that it will sound better than an amp sim seems like a very expensive gamble to me, especially since your ultimate goal is to mic the amp.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah, I saw those when looking around. Man, the POD and Tech21 products are looking better and better.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You can build a load box, but the issue is making sure it that can handle that kind of wattage. A good rule of thumb is to make the load box capable of handling at least twice the wattage of the amp. 50W amp = 100W load box. 100W amp = 200W load, etc.

                    Load boxes usually use very large, high wattage, wire wound resistors. These can get very hot - basically that energy from the amp is being converted to heat, which must dissipate. A good sized heat sink for the resistors can help, as can having a small fan blowing over them and the heat sink. The harder you drive your amp, the more essential it will be to have enough power handling and cooling for the load box.

                    You would connect things just as described for the FANTA, except instead of connecting it to your speaker, you substitute the load box instead. The FANTA is just a line-level tap and speaker simulator - you still need a speaker (or other substitute load of the correct impedance) for the amplifier to operate safely.

                    Something like this would probably work as a suitable 8 ohm load:

                    http://www.amazon.com/200W-Non-Inductive-Dummy-Load-Resistor/dp/B0002KRE3E
                    **********

                    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                    - George Carlin

                    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Another option, though maybe getting outside your budget, is an iso cab. Like this one from jet city.



                      Not sure what the price is though.

                      EDIT: looks like Musician's Friend has them for $350
                      <p><strong><font color="#993300">Russian Dolphins</font></strong></p><br><p>Bandcamp -Â****<a href="http://russiandolphins.bandcamp.com/">http://russiandolphins.bandcamp.com/</a></p><br><p>Soundcloud -Â****<a href="https://soundcloud.com/russiandolphins">https://soundcloud.com/russiandolphins</a></p>

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                      • #12
                        That's pretty inexpensive for a loaded iso cab. How does it sound?
                        **********

                        "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                        - George Carlin

                        "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                        - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                        "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                        - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That's pretty inexpensive for a loaded iso cab. How does it sound?


                          No idea, I've never actually heard one.


                          Perhaps they'd send you a review unit?
                          <p><strong><font color="#993300">Russian Dolphins</font></strong></p><br><p>Bandcamp -Â****<a href="http://russiandolphins.bandcamp.com/">http://russiandolphins.bandcamp.com/</a></p><br><p>Soundcloud -Â****<a href="https://soundcloud.com/russiandolphins">https://soundcloud.com/russiandolphins</a></p>

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                          • #14
                            Those iso cabs are too expensive. I think my best option is to get a 25' speaker cable and only move the cabinet (Mesa 2X12) during recording.

                            I may explore the DI boxes like the FANTA or Radial JDX for live performances.

                            Ultimately, the Tech21 products for direct recording seem like the most affordable and best options.

                            Thanks for your input guys and if anyone does find a solution that will allow me to use my Marshall signal direct while cutting off the signal coming out of the cab, please share.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The only other thing I can think of is an attenuator from weber http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm though there's no speaker simulation. That would be ok if you can deal with running into your computer's recording software with a freeware cabsim impulse loaded.

                              Maybe the mega dump 200W would work for you (though it's still $175)

                              You'd wanna send an email to confirm it can run without a speaker connected though.
                              <p><strong><font color="#993300">Russian Dolphins</font></strong></p><br><p>Bandcamp -Â****<a href="http://russiandolphins.bandcamp.com/">http://russiandolphins.bandcamp.com/</a></p><br><p>Soundcloud -Â****<a href="https://soundcloud.com/russiandolphins">https://soundcloud.com/russiandolphins</a></p>

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