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HELP - Affordable solution to recording a Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 "direct" needed


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I need help choosing the most affordable solution to recording through my Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 direct. My band rehearses at my house and when we record we do it in a "live" format. I am tired of moving my rig into the other room (so the sound doesn't bleed into the drum mics). I want to lay these "scratch" tracks direct until the rhythm section tracks are complete. I will then re-track my final tracks mic'ed up.

 

The DSL doesn't have a direct out or emulated speaker out, like some other amps so I have been looking at emulator pedals that mimic the speaker "load". For instance:

 

F.A.N.T.A. Speaker Emulator

http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/accessories/M-FANTA

 

It sounds like a good product but my main concern is if the signal from the speaker is cut off while the emulator is hooked up. The pedal has inputs for:

"From Amp" 1/4"

"To Speaker" 1/4"

"Signal Out" XLR

 

At less than $100 it seems like a great option, but I would love to hear from anyone who has more experience at this, or has a better solution, than me.

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Honestly if you're using them for scratch tracks a pod, or similar, would be my choice. Or I just picked up a sansamp character series British pedal. That thing sounds great direct. It's what I now use at church instead of an amp.

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You could use an amp sim like a pod or Sansamp for the scratch tracks, but split the signal and also record a unprocessed track through a DI at the same time.

 

The advantage of this technique is that you can retain the vibe of tracking live with the band by reamping the DI guitar track through your Marshall later. You do need a couple of spare inputs and a reamp box and DI to pull it off, though.

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I need help choosing the most affordable solution to recording through my Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 direct. My band rehearses at my house and when we record we do it in a "live" format. I am tired of moving my rig into the other room (so the sound doesn't bleed into the drum mics). I want to lay these "scratch" tracks direct until the rhythm section tracks are complete. I will then re-track my final tracks mic'ed up.


The DSL doesn't have a direct out or emulated speaker out, like some other amps so I have been looking at emulator pedals that mimic the speaker "load". For instance:


F.A.N.T.A. Speaker Emulator

http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/accessories/M-FANTA


It sounds like a good product but my main concern is if the signal from the speaker is cut off while the emulator is hooked up. The pedal has inputs for:

"From Amp" 1/4"

"To Speaker" 1/4"

"Signal Out" XLR


At less than $100 it seems like a great option, but I would love to hear from anyone who has more experience at this, or has a better solution, than me.

 

 

Unfortunately, the FANTA is an inline device and it is connected between the amp and speaker - just like the old Hughes & Kettner Red Box. If you try running it without a load (speaker) connected, you'll fry the amp. It's intended to emulate a speaker's sound, but the connection method prevents it from being a "silent" solution. They're great for reducing the mic count on stage though. But in order to use one, you either have to have your speaker cabinet connected to it, or a dummy load. If you use a dummy load, it has to be of the correct impedance (8 or 16 ohm) and able to handle more than enough wattage... and 100W dummy speaker loads are not all that common.

 

In my humble opinion, the best option would be to use something like a POD or other amp sim (hardware or software) when tracking with the band, then switch over to the Marshall for the overdubs. You could also re-track your main rhythm parts with it too - replacing what you did with the POD. Hang on to the POD track though - you may need it for timing references when overdubbing and editing... plus, you may find you like using it occasionally as another sonic layer in the mix.

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Thanks Phil. If you know of any dummy load devices, please share.

 

I gotta believe there is an affordable product out there. If not, there should be. I've emailed LiveWire and I will continue to scour the web...I'll post my findings, if any.

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I've never seen an inexpensive silent dummy load with cab simulated recording output. Palmer's cheapest model (which will indeed handle a 100 watt amp) is $680. Hoping that it will sound better than an amp sim seems like a very expensive gamble to me, especially since your ultimate goal is to mic the amp.

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You can build a load box, but the issue is making sure it that can handle that kind of wattage. A good rule of thumb is to make the load box capable of handling at least twice the wattage of the amp. 50W amp = 100W load box. 100W amp = 200W load, etc.

 

Load boxes usually use very large, high wattage, wire wound resistors. These can get very hot - basically that energy from the amp is being converted to heat, which must dissipate. A good sized heat sink for the resistors can help, as can having a small fan blowing over them and the heat sink. The harder you drive your amp, the more essential it will be to have enough power handling and cooling for the load box.

 

You would connect things just as described for the FANTA, except instead of connecting it to your speaker, you substitute the load box instead. The FANTA is just a line-level tap and speaker simulator - you still need a speaker (or other substitute load of the correct impedance) for the amplifier to operate safely.

 

Something like this would probably work as a suitable 8 ohm load:

 

http://www.amazon.com/200W-Non-Inductive-Dummy-Load-Resistor/dp/B0002KRE3E

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Those iso cabs are too expensive. I think my best option is to get a 25' speaker cable and only move the cabinet (Mesa 2X12) during recording.

 

I may explore the DI boxes like the FANTA or Radial JDX for live performances.

 

Ultimately, the Tech21 products for direct recording seem like the most affordable and best options.

 

Thanks for your input guys and if anyone does find a solution that will allow me to use my Marshall signal direct while cutting off the signal coming out of the cab, please share.

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The only other thing I can think of is an attenuator from weber http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm though there's no speaker simulation. That would be ok if you can deal with running into your computer's recording software with a freeware cabsim impulse loaded.

 

Maybe the mega dump 200W would work for you (though it's still $175)

 

You'd wanna send an email to confirm it can run without a speaker connected though.

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There is also the THD HotPlate. You can use it as a dummy load with a direct out. Not sure if the direct out has speaker emulation or not. If not you'd need some way to do that or it's not gonna sound very pretty. But the aforementioned IR's or even a pretty basic eq can get you close'ish.

 

However I must admit I'd just buy something to go direct. Also the idea of using a DI and recording a true clean signal is also a great idea. Then you can re-amp that signal and get the live feeling of the performance along with the mic'd sound of the Marshall. That does require a few more pieces though. Unless the simulator you buy as a way to record the dry signal.

 

Which reminds me. If you have a decent computer, you could just use an amp plug-in. I think that was also mentioned. Record the dry signal to one track (muted) and send it to another track with the amp sim. However to track multiple tracks, and have an amp plug, and low latency requires a fairly modern computer. Just some thoughts.

 

There is also the eleven rack. Which would solve a lot of this. But again we're getting into more money. Okay I'll stop now. Definitely lots of ways to skin this cat. ;)

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Those iso cabs are too expensive. I think my best option is to get a 25' speaker cable and only move the cabinet (Mesa 2X12) during recording.


I may explore the DI boxes like the FANTA or Radial JDX for live performances.


Ultimately, the Tech21 products for direct recording seem like the most affordable and best options.

 

 

Tech 21 makes some very cool direct recording tools. I was quite impressed with the V2 Blonde and Liverpool Character Series pedals. They sound surprisingly good running direct.

 

 

Thanks for your input guys and if anyone does find a solution that will allow me to use my Marshall signal direct while cutting off the signal coming out of the cab, please share.

 

 

Well, to quote myself from earlier...

 

You would connect things just as described for the FANTA, except instead of connecting it to your speaker, you substitute the load box instead. The FANTA is just a line-level tap and speaker simulator - you still need a speaker (or other substitute load of the correct impedance) for the amplifier to operate safely.

 

Something like this would probably work as a suitable 8 ohm load:

 

http://www.amazon.com/200W-Non-Induc.../dp/B0002KRE3E

 

That only adds $38 (with shipping) to the price of the FANTA.

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I'd just buy a cheap speaker with low SPL, and mount it flat against a board inside a padded box. No speaker holes.

Total cost maybe $30.

 

You can buy one of these studio one speakers that have an anemic output for around $20

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-262

 

Build a box with some leftover wood, and pack it with some stuffing so theres very little resonation and

you'll barely hear anything. 10" will be small too so it wont take up allot of space.

 

The best part is this will be an active speaker load. The problem with resistors is they dont vary in resistance like speaker

impedance does. It may not hurt an amp head but it is like slamming the speaker output against a brick wall and since

the rated speaker impedance only applies to one frequence, a DC resistance wont vary with frequency like a speaker does so

it has an effect on the frequency responce.

 

You can use the speaker box, then just build this little circuit for a few dollars.

It will supply an emulated speaker line output. You simply plug it into the extension jack

or you can build it into the chassis for live gigging. The good part is it captures the power amp

tubes and output transformer saturation.

 

This particular circuit is good for a 50W amp.

I'd doubble the resistance to 1 meg instead of a 470 resistor for a 100W amp.

Or you could add a 500K pot in series with the existing resistor so you can attenuate the line output.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]347121[/ATTACH]

 

I've installed these in all my vintage amps that dont have line outs

and they work great for recording or plugging into a PA without having to deal with mics.

 

Total cost of these items would be maybe $25 and some scrap wood, few screws and glue to build

a box thats a little over 10" wide. What you get is a hot plate thats got a speaker emulated line out

thats good for 125W. Might take you an hour to build unless you're all thumbs.

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please excuse me, if i mssed something in your post, but: if you still are going to play through the actual amp, at whichever volume you deem adequate for the situation, and you find it acceptable to compromise tone somewhat by running a cheap gizmo to capture the direct signal, why not simply stick a mic to the grill? if it's a scratch track, what's the problem? it may be thinner / buzzier / whatever then a properly turned up amp, but still, it's a simple option that works :)

 

edit: does your amp have an fx loop? is it possible to run preamp out of FX send into your interface, without muting the output? if so, i suggest capturing DI out and applying convolution software + cab impulses (such as RedWirez) in your DAW

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