Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 15, 2007 Members Share Posted December 15, 2007 I'm doing a drum session, and decided to side-mic the snare with a Lawson L251 through a Neve Portico. So far, it sounds really good, a very balanced snare sound. Anyone tried this? I've heard of people using SDCs (KM 84s, etc.) as the single mic for the snare, or using 414s (LDCs) for the bottom of the two mics, but not using an LDC as the only mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted December 15, 2007 Members Share Posted December 15, 2007 My all time favorite snare mic is actually a 414. Usually in figure 8 with the null sides pointed at the hat and rack tom. It's pretty common to use an LDC for snare, actually... more than you might think, anyway. That said, the specific mic does matter a lot. Some of them catch way too much of the hat and give it a seriously annoying quality. So if you try one or two LDC mics and they don't work for you, don't give up on the idea of LDC's for snare altogether. Some of them work great, others are pretty horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 15, 2007 So I can't patent the idea? I was hoping that it could be named after me. I Googled and found several references, but wasn't sure how common an LDC was for snare. So far, so good. Getting more of the character of the snare. I have it in fig-8 right now. Still tweaking out the drums. I have an Avenson ST0-2 on the kick, which has a lot of tone and impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Maybe you have this impression given that LCDs are more vulnerable to higher SPLs and people tend to use SDCs instead for the places with more pressure. But these days of relatively affordable good-quality LCDs using with care a LCD for the snare is pretty common. The technique is actually named "LLW" (Lozada Loves Women). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted December 15, 2007 Members Share Posted December 15, 2007 I've also used a 414 for snare, which was great for that massively crisp, articulate sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted December 15, 2007 Members Share Posted December 15, 2007 yep, been doing it for YEARS now. its a main snare mic for me. 414 in F8 with the hat in the null on the side is wonderful. a U195 on the side in FAT is incredible. great body and almost everything great about the snare w/o that top ring a top mic gets that everyone wants to dampen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 15, 2007 My all time favorite snare mic is actually a 414. Usually in figure 8 with the null sides pointed at the hat and rack tom.It's pretty common to use an LDC for snare, actually... more than you might think, anyway. That said, the specific mic does matter a lot. Some of them catch way too much of the hat and give it a seriously annoying quality. So if you try one or two LDC mics and they don't work for you, don't give up on the idea of LDC's for snare altogether. Some of them work great, others are pretty horrible. I did that as well with a 414 on Lee's suggestion. It's nice for lighter playing or something with nuance. Ghost notes are cool this way. It reminds me of some of the 60's pop hits where the snare is crisp but realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 15, 2007 Working great. Large sound with a great deal of articulation, much more satisfying than my usual 421 or 57. Thanks. Drum session's goin' well. Thanks for the input!! I still have it in fig-8 with the null at the rack tom and hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 here are two more... a ribbon underneath the snare pointed at that on the backside and the kick on the front [make sure you have the phase of the top/fok mics opposite of that one]. a new one [for me] from a friend is an omni [he uses a coke bottle mic] on the top rim of the kick. pointed at the drummers crotch/leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 on the top rim of the kick. pointed at the drummers crotch/leg. Whenever I've had to record a drum kit with only one mic, that's exactly what I do. It seems to get the best balance of the whole kit. Kinda makes me wonder what a stereo XY pair would sound like there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 Whenever I've had to record a drum kit with only one mic, that's exactly what I do. It seems to get the best balance of the whole kit.Kinda makes me wonder what a stereo XY pair would sound like there. id try Blumien over XY personally to get both sides of it... its a hard [tight] location however with sticks flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 Yeah, good point... probably why I've never tried it. Well, that and like I say I've only ever done it when I only have one mic available. Lots of TASCAM portastudio recordings I did that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 Been using a 414 for years. The person to turn me on to that, of all people, was Kenny Aronoff, during a lesson, one day. And that was frightening, at first, because Kenny's such a hard hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 Yeah, good point... probably why I've never tried it. Well, that and like I say I've only ever done it when I only have one mic available. Lots of TASCAM portastudio recordings I did that way. though instead of a SDC omni pointed at the crotch, i wonder about a LDC in omni with the two sides facing the two sides of the kit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 I've tried that. THe results have long escaped my mind, though. And they're trapped on a reel of 2" tape down in my basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mejondrum Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 I usually use a LDC on snare (Dragonfly, 414, or u87) when I'm playing brushes, or a more gentle, softer stick approach. It all depends on the song and the desired sonic character... Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 The snare sounds really good. The drummer and everyone in the band was super happy. There's much more character to the snare. The other thing that really helped the overall drum sound was the use of four RealTraps Mini-Traps surrounding the drum set. They make such a huge difference in the sound. And finally, the "reason" I did this in the first place is that I inadvertently loaned out all my 57s and left a 421 at the rehearsal studio. After some thinking, I thought, "Well, maybe I'll try the Lawson (LDC) here. Should work." But wow. That captured a lot more character than a 57 or a 421 ever did on the snare. It's difficult to determine how much of it was the Lawson, and how much of it was the RealTraps since I hadn't used either for drums before. But wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 I usually use a LDC on snare (Dragonfly, 414, or u87) when I'm playing brushes, or a more gentle, softer stick approach. It all depends on the song and the desired sonic character...Jon I have no doubt that an LDC would just *rule* for brushes or hot rods. Wow. These three songs were more or less rock songs, although the last one was slightly jazzy. But no brushes or hot rods. It picked up the ghost notes, but I've never had a problem picking up the ghost notes. What it did for me is impart more of the snare's tone rather than sounding "bangy". But yeah, can't wait to try it on brushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 There's much more character to the snare. 'bout soiled yourself, didn't ya? I'll never forget the first time I put the 414 on the snare. It was like I had suddenly become a master engineer. Which, of course, is all psychological. But, for a while, I was on top of the world. One benefit I experienced with this was, I was able to tell a drummer, with more certainty than ever before, that he needed to tune his f@#(@#$&*^g drums or get a different snare...and he did not argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted December 16, 2007 Members Share Posted December 16, 2007 That's the thing: don't do this with a) a crappy drummer or b) a drummer with poorly-kept gear. The added sensitivity of the condenser will only bring out the deficiencies and highlight them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted December 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 Maybe you have this impression given that LCDs are more vulnerable to higher SPLs and people tend to use SDCs instead for the places with more pressure.. Naw, but bigger mics make easier targets for the stray drum stick. There are lots of expendable large capsule condenser mics these days, but a Lawson isn't one of them. I don't see any reason not to use whatever mic sounds good. Nothing special about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 18, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 18, 2007 'bout soiled yourself, didn't ya? You promised you'd be quiet about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 18, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 18, 2007 Naw, but bigger mics make easier targets for the stray drum stick. There are lots of expendable large capsule condenser mics these days, but a Lawson isn't one of them. Yeah, that was more it. You put it right by the snare, and look out!!! I knew it'd be able to handle the SPLs. Also, I just never really thought about doing it before. I was actually hunting around for an extra SDC when it occurred to me that the Lawson might make a good snare mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted December 18, 2007 Members Share Posted December 18, 2007 thats why you put in on the far side of the snare... if i drummer hits it over there, they shouldnt even be in the studio and will get hit by me with a 2x4 upside their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 18, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 18, 2007 I had it kinda lower too, so it wouldn't get hit. Cool. I seriously can't wait to try this on some jazz stuff. I probably won't need to use it on hardcore, with someone taking full monkey swings at the snare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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